It's fucking stupid LFR raiders have to wait this long

[Kyanion]

Oh so we are going back to the people aspect of an *GASP* MMO!?!?!?!

Being worthy or up to par to participate in group content has always been a staple of MMOs. You haven't figured that out by now?

Considering I've likely been MMO'ing longer than you have since I've been doing it since they first started with Bulletin Board Services (BBS) and Multi User Dimensions or Multi User Dungeons (Muds) I think I understand what the 'aspect of an MMO' is. Being worthy or up to par to participate is usually set by the creators or runners of the game but players decide to change those parameters as they see fit. It is within their right to do so but it is totally okay with people to go against that as well. That is why things like LFR exist so you can take out some of the bullshit middleman standing at the door ID checking you. I've had no problem getting through the ID check but I think it is bullshit one of my friends would get denied entry because of something arbitrary. I also do not hold it against ANYONE that decides they wish to do LFR because it gets them in a raid automatically and does not force them to sift through group finding posts.

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Okay. People saying LFR isn't raiding need to drop the elitism and get off the high horse. It is most certainly and undeniably raiding. It is just the tee ball little league of doing so. Is Wailing Caverns a dungeon? Nah man. Getchoo some Halls of Valor M+15. Now *that* is a dungeon! Fucking get over yourself and deal with the fact that this shit is in the game and people are running the same thing you are, only on a bite sized tourist mode. It's Nighthold. Even the loot is the same (once again)

I know right? Some level headed mythic raiders and M15+ dungeon runners would agree that LFR is raiding, it may be the easiest form of raiding but it is as much to raiding as normal modes are to dungeons. Not everyone agrees with this of course but to take the elitist attitude that some people are taking is quite frankly pretty sad but pretty much the norm on these forums and Blizz public forums. Thankfully most of these blowhards/elitists/whatever are a small minority of the population and the only entity that REALLY matters is the one that defines what LFR is. That is Blizz.

[Jaylock]

That's like saying a local sports group ran by people in the community is not an actual sport because its not in the minor leagues. If your going to go with that mentality then congratulations, you're not raiding as well, because unless you make it to mythic your playing a sub par and FAR to easy of a game mode, and as such you're just plain bad

Bad example.

LFR is like playing Madden NFL 17 with a pro-bowl team with all the cheats enabled, where as normal mode raids and up are actually getting out on the field and playing.

The point is, LFR requires no coordinated effort, because there cant be any for 25 random strangers. Playing the video game version of an NFL game is just the illusion of playing the game of football, but it isn't actually playing football, and you most certainly are not a football player.

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Okay. People saying LFR isn't raiding need to drop the elitism and get off the high horse. It is most certainly and undeniably raiding. It is just the tee ball little league of doing so. Is Wailing Caverns a dungeon? Nah man. Getchoo some Halls of Valor M+15. Now *that* is a dungeon! Fucking get over yourself and deal with the fact that this shit is in the game and people are running the same thing you are, only on a bite sized tourist mode. It's Nighthold. Even the loot is the same (once again)

See my response above.

[Kyanion]

Bad example.

LFR is like playing Madden NFL 17 with a pro-bowl team with all the cheats enabled, where as normal mode raids and up are actually getting out on the field and playing.

The point is, LFR requires no coordinated effort, because there cant be any for 25 random strangers. Playing the video game version of an NFL game is just the illusion of playing the game of football, but it isn't actually playing football, and you most certainly are not a football player.

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See my response above.

And Blizzard disagrees with you and your silly analogy. They are the ones that matter here. Not you. Shocking I know. You'll get used to the disappointment of being wrong some day.

[Foxhoundn]

Ehm, well if you LFR "raiders" wanna clear NH just run normal. THen you don't have to wait for a months or so until they open up everything in LFR. Easy sloved.

"LF Nighthold normal be 880+" every single normal one, people are retarded... Fucking elitist scums, you can run nighthold normal in 860 gear.

[Effenz]

"LF Nighthold normal be 880+" every single normal one, people are retarded... Fucking elitist scums, you can run nighthold normal in 860 gear.

Then make your 860 group? What, apart from laziness and entitlement is stopping you from doing that?

[ThatsOurEric]

Boy, look at all these holier than thou players.

[Deadite]

It's an acronym for something else. Raid is just the PG word they went with to fit it. I'd like to avoid getting infracted so won't say the real thing.

No you think it means something else because of feels. LFR may be easy mode raiding but it is still factually raiding. I can tell from this thread that is a bitter pill to swallow for some folk but boo hoo i guess.

You are just looking for a raid... not finding it.

I don't have to find it. I press a button and it finds me.

[Whitedragon]

Bad example.

LFR is like playing Madden NFL 17 with a pro-bowl team with all the cheats enabled, where as normal mode raids and up are actually getting out on the field and playing.

The point is, LFR requires no coordinated effort, because there cant be any for 25 random strangers. Playing the video game version of an NFL game is just the illusion of playing the game of football, but it isn't actually playing football, and you most certainly are not a football player.

See my response above.

How is it a bad example? you're playing the same game as "the pro's" but the field isn't as long so people don't have to try as hard, if someone goes out of bounds just slightly or brakes a minor rule their is a good chance they wont get called for it, and if some people are under preforming the game can still be played to its fullest and everyone can still have fun. how is that NOT LFR?

Your analogue on the other hand would be more apt if it was possible for me to play by my self in a Warcarft 3 map made to replicate the raid its based on, and still get what everyone else dose.

[elaina]

Honestly, from reading your response I would predict you either do almost no LFR and don't actually know what it's like right now, or your general perception of reality is way out of whack. Your example is laughable and clearly hyperbolic in scope. You're just an elitist. I suggest you find a way to care less about this.

[rda]

Boy, look at all these holier than thou players.

What's most hilarious is that OP is asking "why the hell is LFR still not completely opened???" and "LFR is not raiding" is not even an answer to that. (I mean, suppose that were true and LFR wasn't raiding however laughable that sounds. So what? The question is why the hell does it take so long to unlock it.)

[Deadite]

See my response above.

So random Battle Grounds ain't PvP then?

[Aflakk47]

The reason there's a 2 week gate on wings is so that it has as little effect on the top-end mythic progression as possible. When LFR was introduced in DS, there was 2 halves, that's it. LFR dropped the same loot with just a lower ilvl, so it would mess with the mythic progression if some guilds were able to take 3 rounds at the raid for tier/trinkets which gave a larger boost relative to the ilvl loss

[Jaylock]

Considering I've likely been MMO'ing longer than you have since I've been doing it since they first started with Bulletin Board Services (BBS) and Multi User Dimensions or Multi User Dungeons (Muds) I think I understand what the 'aspect of an MMO' is. Being worthy or up to par to participate is usually set by the creators or runners of the game but players decide to change those parameters as they see fit. It is within their right to do so but it is totally okay with people to go against that as well. That is why things like LFR exist so you can take out some of the bullshit middleman standing at the door ID checking you. I've had no problem getting through the ID check but I think it is bullshit one of my friends would get denied entry because of something arbitrary. I also do not hold it against ANYONE that decides they wish to do LFR because it gets them in a raid automatically and does not force them to sift through group finding posts.

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I know right? Some level headed mythic raiders and M15+ dungeon runners would agree that LFR is raiding, it may be the easiest form of raiding but it is as much to raiding as normal modes are to dungeons. Not everyone agrees with this of course but to take the elitist attitude that some people are taking is quite frankly pretty sad but pretty much the norm on these forums and Blizz public forums. Thankfully most of these blowhards/elitists/whatever are a small minority of the population and the only entity that REALLY matters is the one that defines what LFR is. That is Blizz.

Why does it hurt you so much when I say LFR isn't raiding? Why can't you just accept the fact that it isnt? The "bullshit middleman" as you call it is someone being logical for the most part. Pugs for the most part don't want to be training people how to raid, and knowing how to be an actual raider requires that you know something about your character, the boss mechanics, the environment, how other player's skills interact with the boss, and know when to move and anticipate damage, or anticipate cooldowns properly.

Does LFR train people to know how to actually raid? Does it make them better at their character? Does it teach them lessons on how to gtfo of fire or else they will die? No. Big. Fat. No. It does not. But what it actually does is hand holds them, and gives them rewards for failure (determination). It isn't raiding. Its sloppy, uncoordinated, tank and spank encounters.

Just because you have been around a lot of MMOs doesn't make you any more bright than you actually think you are on the subject. If you fail to see how the name MMO implies many people, then I have no hope for you.

I don't care if you or your friend's self-esteem is hurt because other people consider LFR as not raiding. Get over it.

[Kyanion]

The reason there's a 2 week gate on wings is so that it has as little effect on the top-end mythic progression as possible. When LFR was introduced in DS, there was 2 halves, that's it. LFR dropped the same loot with just a lower ilvl, so it would mess with the mythic progression if some guilds were able to take 3 rounds at the raid for tier/trinkets which gave a larger boost relative to the ilvl loss

Considering how fast most mythic content gets cleared now I'm not sure there is a point to waiting this long to releasing wings 3 and 4 of the raids though. I get the slowing down the release of content to perhaps milk more sub money out of the equation and that may not be a bad business decision.

[elaina]

Jaylock, by your "much better" example you're acting as though you're actually going out there and slaying rl dragons putting your life in danger while us plebs sit back and simulate it in a game. No, you're not that special nor are you that good. In fact you're playing the same fucking game we are. Did you know raid finder gear can titanforge to 925? Tier gear too! How does that make you feel?

[Whitedragon]

Why does it hurt you so much when I say LFR isn't raiding? Why can't you just accept the fact that it isnt? The "bullshit middleman" as you call it is someone being logical for the most part. Pugs for the most part don't want to be training people how to raid, and knowing how to be an actual raider requires that you know something about your character, the boss mechanics, the environment, how other player's skills interact with the boss, and know when to move and anticipate damage, or anticipate cooldowns properly.

Does LFR train people to know how to actually raid? Does it make them better at their character? Does it teach them lessons on how to gtfo of fire or else they will die? No. Big. Fat. No. It does not. But what it actually does is hand holds them, and gives them rewards for failure (determination). It isn't raiding. Its sloppy, uncoordinated, tank and spank encounters.

Just because you have been around a lot of MMOs doesn't make you any more bright than you actually think you are on the subject. If you fail to see how the name MMO implies many people, then I have no hope for you.

I don't care if you or your friend's self-esteem is hurt because other people consider LFR as not raiding. Get over it.

Because what you say isn't fact its opinion, and as such it is only based on your own experiences, it also doesn't help that your opinion goes against what the makers of the game you're trying to argue for have publicly stated the opposite of what you say. As such not to many, if any people are going to take you at your word.

[Zyrosis]

Given how many times someone said Normal is easier than LFR in the topic, why is Normal considered raiding if it's easier than that which is deemed not raiding? And for those who believe that LFR isn't raiding because it's "easier" than normal, why do you consider anything below Mythic as true raiding? Wouldn't that be the case? That only the most difficult of content is the relevant content?

[Charge me Doctor]

"LFR raiders"? Is this even a thing or OP just made it up?

[Deleted]

Game started to be great again after I dropped raiding and just went LFR - So I hope they cater a lot more to the LFR audience than they currently do.

[Kyanion]

Why does it hurt you so much when I say LFR isn't raiding? Why can't you just accept the fact that it isnt? The "bullshit middleman" as you call it is someone being logical for the most part. Pugs for the most part don't want to be training people how to raid, and knowing how to be an actual raider requires that you know something about your character, the boss mechanics, the environment, how other player's skills interact with the boss, and know when to move and anticipate damage, or anticipate cooldowns properly.

Does LFR train people to know how to actually raid? Does it make them better at their character? Does it teach them lessons on how to gtfo of fire or else they will die? No. Big. Fat. No. It does not. But what it actually does is hand holds them, and gives them rewards for failure (determination). It isn't raiding. Its sloppy, uncoordinated, tank and spank encounters.

Just because you have been around a lot of MMOs doesn't make you any more bright than you actually think you are on the subject. If you fail to see how the name MMO implies many people, then I have no hope for you.

I don't care if you or your friend's self-esteem is hurt because other people consider LFR as not raiding. Get over it.

Again there is no real point to your long winded rant. It does not hurt me when you say LFR isn't raiding because your opinion doesn't really matter. The only opinion that really matters in this situation is Blizzard. They say it is raiding and that is that. You can call LFR people whatever you wish, it just makes you wrong.

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Because what you say isn't fact its opinion, and as such it is only based on your own experiences, it also doesn't help that your opinion goes against what the makers of the game you're trying to argue for have publicly stated the opposite of what you say. As such not to many, if any people are going to take you at your word.

Pretty much this.