It's fucking stupid LFR raiders have to wait this long

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

AFAIK LFR stands for "Looking for raid" and the people form a raid, meaning they are raiding.

Nah. LFR is clicking a button to join a queue, then queue pops and you follow a pack around zerging random stuff without knowing what is what or any of the mechanics, then you collect some vendor items and wonder what just happened.

12 minutes of boss encounters with NO clue what is going on...

You just described LFR perfectly.

[Guyviroth]

I'm a normal/heroic raider, and even I think the two week gap between wings is stupid.

Every other expansion that had LFR always opened the wings on a weekly basis, and people were fine with that. It seems like the only reason they made the fortnightly unlocks is to squeeze out that extra little £10/$15 from the LFR players (which in hindsight might not be an "extra little" considering how large the LFR playerbase seems to be.)

And even looking at it outside of the LFR players, other people like/want/need to run LFR for transmog, runes, or just that extra little AP boost if they get tired of doing WQs/M+ dungeons.

[GreenJesus]

Sorry, but I disagree. When go to do look more like, you have to consider as decided the need to go want to look. If you merely decided as to think to half of that, you might as well go to a floor towards as the far. I can't believe you deny the use of further deciding to even want to do look more like, when the rest of us have decided to need a want. Go ahead, go want to do look more like further than a half. It gets you nowhere, I can tell you that.

Can you speak English?

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

You click a button to join a queue etc pretty much applies to every levelling dungeon I do on my alts now or every holiday event like Brewfest, Crown Chemical and most timewalking dungeons. How come only LFR always gets that hate threads (this pretty quickly turned into a semantics contest whether or not LFR is raiding with everybody hanging their opinion on a self fabricated definition of raiding)

Plus I am sure you can make the same claims for "normal" difficulty if you want to be a snarky mythic elitist. That said, I would not presume on people in my LFR group. For reasons that I cannot understand (extra gold? extra AP?) there are people who have cleared higher difficulties in LFR, so a few seem to have a clue.

Raiding is traditionally an activity where players work together to learn a boss's mechanics and formulate a plan for coping with those mechanics then practice executing the plan till they get it right so they can finally defeat the boss and get loot.

No one has to learn or plan or even work together in LFR. LFR is purposely tuned down to the point where players can show up and run around mashing random buttons till stuff dies. You don't need to know what the boss was supposed to be doing because even if you stand in bad or can't be bothered to interrupt or don't bother killing adds it just doesn't matter. May as well be watching a video. You can always mash random buttons while watching the video, if it helps you feel more involved.

[GreenJesus]

It's not that they can't do it on normal, it's that they don't have the time, or don't want to invest the time, to get 9+ additional people together that are willing to invest even more time to clear the content.

This is not a matter of individual skill. A person can have the skill to participate in a raid and clear it, meaning they fulfill the minimal requirements, like doing enough dps, being able to follow the tactics etc, yet they don't want to wait, and wait, and wait for the whole team to a) assemble and b) coordinate their efforts correctly.

I've done it. I've cleared raids with groups. Hell I've spent 3-4 hours in a single raid sometimes, and when we killed enough in there, at times it was cool. But then you have those weeks where you wait and wait and still only get to kill 2-3 bosses, because the group was just not doing it right. I've done it. I'm done with it. I honestly have better things to do with my life.

Delaying the LFR wings by 10 weeks is only making unsubbing and returning at a later point even more attractive to me.

Our guild clears normal nighthold in like an hour and a half. That is WAY faster than LFR when adding queues. People just like to make excuses for not doing harder content.

[Lochton]

That is just how it is, LFR is always on the waiting list like every other tier it has been.

[Sansnom]

Legitimate question to all pro LFRs:

Why do you enjoy going into an instance when everything is a tank and spank? I mean, you literally need 0 skill to do anything in LFR especially when the game gives you the "i win" determination stacks. Why is that fun to you? Don't you get bored of going in and not having to think or move out of fire, or do anything remotely coordinated?

No need to be shy. Just insult them with real insults. You are trying sound sincere but if you have not notice, your paragraph is full of condescending attitude. Like all your other post. You give the impression that you need to elevate yourself above others in a video game.

People don't need others to tell them what is fun and how to play. That is for them to decide. A reverse question is why do you care so much about how they are playing the game.

- - - Updated - - -

Why does it hurt you so much when I say LFR isn't raiding? Why can't you just accept the fact that it isnt?

It is you who have the trouble with accepting LFR for what it is and constantly make threads on this subject.

I don't care if you or your friend's self-esteem is hurt because other people consider LFR as not raiding. Get over it.

Yet you keep coming back and asking them why they consider it raiding. How about you getting over it. LFR is not going away. Some people like it and use it.

[TheVaryag]

Like what's the hold up? I started playing again last week and saw two wings were available, and I was like "Cool, they're probably opening one wing per week, just like in the past". Nope. Week has passed, still two wings. Why the fuck does it have to take so long? Everyone who seriously wanted to clear the raid on normal / heroic / mythic has already done so, or are very close to. So there's no reason to keep LFR raiders waiting this long.

I've mentioned this weeks ago, thank you for noticing as well...

I mentioned this as one of the reasons they're just stretching out the "Content" of Legion and this is one of the ways they're doing It, artififically extending It by launching LFR of Nighthold In two week chunks which stretches It Into 2 months for no apparent reason. It highly sucks for me, as I NEVER seen the final cutscene of Nighthold but I wanted to so I wanted to experience It Ingame after we gut Gul'dan.

And the wait, and potential of spoiling Is getting higher the more we wait.

And like you said, yeah It's stupid that the other difficulties are available yet LFR Is stretched. It makes no sense especially as LFR Is only the casual's way to see the story and thats It. The gear Is obsolete, you still get better gear drops from World Quests and Mythic + runs than you would In Nighthold LFR.

LFR still remains useless after you do one run just to experience It, unless they added some "Collect Valarjar soul" shiz Into NH to again - extend the experience. Same with Nightmare raid, you do LFR once and you're done. It's as useless as running LFR with Deathwing was. Although that was when LFR began so we can sorta forgive that. Although since Mists LFR has been relevant to get legendaries at least, It was a fine experience I didn't mind running LFR weekly for the legendary stuff that was enjoyable to some extend - If you ignore the stupidity of LFR people and their unwillingness to learn tactics from a video that lasts 15 minutes.

And that's another way how they try to make LFR and doing Inbetwenn small raids relevant "Aka Trials of Valor" and they added that "Collect Valar jar souls for not even good looking transmogs" or whatever. I hope people are realizing: Yes there Is content, but half of It Is crap and Is not good content. More content doesn't nececerily mean good content, just "content" not GOOD content... are you content In that fact?

To me that doesn't bode well for Legion at all. And as I've mentioned previously my tracker for how long legion will last lies In the achivements, go to the Pvp achivements on WoW and look at the amount of season achivements for PvP Legion we have. 4 Seasons right? And the first season has ended 3 months Into Legion with the 2nd Season soon ending at the end of February/start of March. Which to me seems they've already confidently said to themselves "We'll have enough "Content" to keep people playing for a year, so just put In those achivements there already In preperarion"

And I hope Legion does only last that long, because I'd prefer the next expansion already and get rid of this grinding for AP, the bad PvP system with no guaranteed gear drops, the lackluster story and non-connected zones which stories are fine, but are only there to servise the fan, we wanted Azshara? She was there and her Naga. We wanted Nightmare stuff? Xavius and a raid for him as well. We wanted... Tauren apparently? I guess we got those too. We wanted Vrykul bjorgen fjorgen and the WoW version of Valhalla and Odin? We got that...

All the zones seem to only be fan service and not well thought out zones and stories that connect to the big picture of the expansion. Even Warlords of Dreanor whilst being a bad expansion In the long run had well tailored zones, with a good story that connected together from one zone to the other from uniting the Frostwolves, getting rid of the Thunderlords to sabotaging the Blackrock, to helping out In Shattrath, establishing a base In the Spires of Arak and helping the Arrakoa to the climactic ending In Nagrand where you defeated Garrosh (And I'm so glad we only helped to defeat him, and didn't deliver the killing blow, I wish we always had that happen, In raids most of all. It's like we're the minions, we're the adventurers, vollenteers helping out, we're not Highlords or Death lords, or Cringelords. We're just here to help out).

I hoped Legion would follow WoD's example of zone stories and chapters and would eventually lead us to completing each chapter and then at the end kill Gul'dan or someone Important and relevant. Just get rid of him and stop doing the whole timeline/dimensional/temporal/timetravel nonsense that belongs Into Star Trek, not WoW. But what did we do Instead? Instead we saw Suramar city and the Nightborne (I'll admit the city Is amazing, beautifully crafted and so large, the best feature In Legion to be honest, I wish our capital cities would be remade Into such similar scales and beauty) which sadly are just the Blood Elves of this expansion fighting their mana addiction, which again Is not original and Interesting.

I kinda went off the rails there but I felt It was all relevant to the LFR thing and explaining the reasoning behind my thoughts and why I think they're just extending everything.

Sorry, love you all ._.

[Ishayu]

How about this reason:

The core reward loop of WoW is see new place -> explore challenge -> do challenge -> get reward that unlocks seeing new place -> explore new challenge -> do new challenge -> etc. and your LFR completely undermines that, hence it must be kept in check or it destroys the whole game.

[MORGATH99]

i like that LFR " raider " part

[GrieverXIII]

Go clear Normal then? Its barely harder.

[Deleted]

I wonder how normal raiders would feel if mythic raiders were to start commenting repeatedly that normal isn't "real" raiding either.

Elitism hasn't changed much, it just has multiple tiers now.......

[Allenseiei]

It's mainly two reasons:
1. The most important one -> Keep non dedicated players subbed longer
2. They removed the fear of having to run 4 difficulties to get tier pieces asap. Since LFR is one of the worst pieces of content for high end raiders.

To the topic of LFR "raiders"... Does LFR have elements of raiding? Yes it does, but very few of them. The very basic ones, which are the boring ones. Raiding was meant to be a group effort and dedicationg to beat a goal. LFR only retains the "group" and even that is questionable.

LFR is just a group of strangers that will never interact or get to know each other getting a tour of the raiding content. They are Raiding tourists.

[GrieverXIII]

I wonder how normal raiders would feel if mythic raiders were to start commenting repeatedly that normal isn't "real" raiding either.

Elitism hasn't changed much, it just has multiple tiers now.......

We see the clear cut differences between Normal Raiding and LFR "Raiding".

What Normal has that LFR doesn't :

1 : It encourages forming steady groups and create opportunities for friendship from not relying on an automated matchmaking system.
2 : Its difficult enough that (at the appropriate gear level) failure is still at the very least, a possibility.
3 : Most mechanics from higher difficulties are still present in the encounters in at least some light form.
4 : Raid leaders can get rid of trolls/brats/AFKers at their earliest convenience without going through 15 hoops, forcing people to somewhat behave and perform their roles to stay in the groups.

[Deleted]

How about this reason:

The core reward loop of WoW is see new place -> explore challenge -> do challenge -> get reward that unlocks seeing new place -> explore new challenge -> do new challenge -> etc. and your LFR completely undermines that, hence it must be kept in check or it destroys the whole game.

Sorry but only a minority play video games to be "challenged" especially in RPGs. Time to summon @Osmeric

[Sansnom]

How about this reason:

The core reward loop of WoW is see new place -> explore challenge -> do challenge -> get reward that unlocks seeing new place -> explore new challenge -> do new challenge -> etc. and your LFR completely undermines that, hence it must be kept in check or it destroys the whole game.

First, LFR is optional. You do not have do it. If it is not a challenge for you, then raid the higher difficulty.

Secondly, that is your loop of the game. It is not mine, nor some of the people I know.

LFR is optional. Always has been. It does not undermine anything in the game. The regular argument is that some players consider raiding as something special and reserved to those with "skill". I do not care about this argument. If LFR is a proof of anything, it is that raiding itself destroying the game because it is dividing the players.

[Girrag]

People in LFR aren't raiders. They're tourists.

[Scarletlion]

You said LFR what? Lfr is ''something'' but not a raid. And people that run it each week are not raiders. Nope, nope, nope.

[DechCJC]

Like what's the hold up? I started playing again last week and saw two wings were available, and I was like "Cool, they're probably opening one wing per week, just like in the past". Nope. Week has passed, still two wings. Why the fuck does it have to take so long? Everyone who seriously wanted to clear the raid on normal / heroic / mythic has already done so, or are very close to. So there's no reason to keep LFR raiders waiting this long.

Just do normal, I know LFR 'raiders' that have much more free time than me, it's not that much of an investment.

[GrieverXIII]

Flexible Normal is what LFR should had been. Current LFR is Mobile Game quality gameplay.