This is why Legion is so bad

[anaxie]

You're right. But, ya see, there are 2 differences:

1. IT'S A FUCKING MYTHIC GUILD! You're not in a mythic guild, i'm not either. Are you kidding? This isn't method, or some hardcore guild that requires you to be at a certain ilvl, this just normal NH, Heroic NH, and early mythic NH we're talking about here. It's not hard to get to 54, it took me only a day of spamming MoS +2 to get from rank 37, to 41...

I'm talking about mythic you filthy pleb.

The content I played at my entire WoW career and cleared.

if you want to be medicore that is awesome. but the system they are using now is not sustainable.

[Emerald Archer]

How mature of you. I don't have alts, just my 1 character. However, even though I don't play prot, or holy at all, I do have this, their AP rank:

Prot: 36, Holy: 32, Ret: 41.

Last time I played holy though, was like a week ago. Went from 28, to 32 in 3-4 hours....

You get that 51+ it's 4mil a level right? up from what? Your 1 mil? You're underestimating the grind.

[TheFirstOnes]

While I would've put that more elegantly and In a less angry fashion, I do agree with most of that.

They've had catch up machanics for the weekly cap In WoD didn't they? That was fine, besides you only ever needed Conquest to buy the best gear within like 2 months since launch. That's all It takes. You get the best gear GUARANTEED... and what about Legion? I've not seen one person In Legion Season 1 PvP gear, why? Two reasons: It's not better than the PvE gear you get dropped left right and center from World Quests/Heroics/mythics, and because you can't get the whole set GUARANTEED. If you're lucky, you get the whole set In 3 months, but by then the season ends and It turns out you were very weak the whole season and couldn't do a thing about It because RNG.

Conquest gave you a way to get GUARATEED gear within a certain time limit and that's It. And you didn't have any AP as well as a factor In your strenght, and the bad honor talent system which I don't know why they didn't realize that It was a bad idea to RESET all of your talents once you hit 50 honor and prestige. It's nice they realized MONTHS after launch, but should've realized that long ago. I mean you make WoW for 12 years and didn't realize that, Blizz?

AP Is another thing, all Artifact Power to me seems Is Conquest points that you can get unlimited amounts of time, but you have to -keep- grinding for It. As well as there NEVER being a point where you stop grinding for AP because If you don't you fall behind on your PvP and PvE competative standpoint. You become objectively weaker than your other competitors who were grinding away for longer than you. not to mention that stupid 55th trait In your Artifact that Increased your damage by 0.5 % each time you get millions of AP. It's such a stupid and minor upgrade that you SHOUDN'T be grinding at all. The Trait system Is bad enough, you made It worse by forcing people to do that 55th trait over and over again.

And If your guildie wanted a healer, well too bad their Artifact Weapon Is too bad cause they Invested In their DPS spec more. Oh If only that problem could be solved by only having GEAR be the deciding factor In If you could heal or damage well.

Rant over, quit It Blizz. Legion Is not good, people are not stupid and they see how bad It is the more It goes on.

You litterally spent over 3 paragraphs talking how "LUL! RNG SUCKS! And Wow, AP sucks too. And becuz of dis, legion sux. Face it blizz, ya suck", feel happy now that your "Small" rant is done? Must I mention all of the RNG from past expansions? RNG like such is not new in MMOs. Final fantasy is doing well though...so...maybe join that...maybe?

[anaxie]

How mature of you. I don't have alts, just my 1 character. However, even though I don't play prot, or holy at all, I do have this, their AP rank:

Prot: 36, Holy: 32, Ret: 41.

Last time I played holy though, was like a week ago. Went from 28, to 32 in 3-4 hours....

Don't play them yet work on them vs Ret stronger.

I mean we don't do the same content and never would. we are not going to agree on views because you represent everything I despise in people I avoid playing with in games.

[Effenz]

Thats how the ENTIRE mythic scene is

Why do plebs have this misconception that only 5 world first guilds go all out on min maxing.

almost every guild that is going to kill Gul'dan before ToS. probably had or was close to 54 traits before it's release.

You mistook what I meant by WF, but eh.
The actual progression guild/environment is different to what most people here are subject to. I'm saying that you don't need 54+ traits if you aren't pushing progression in mythic, and you def don't need 54+ alts if you're not in at least the top 300.
Most of the people here don't fall in either category.

And what's the world rank we're looking at, for the sake of argument? 800-1k you can be pretty relaxed with 1 spec @ 54 (which isn't much other than playing the same character/spec since launch, with minimal AP farming)

[TheFirstOnes]

You get that 51+ it's 4mil a level right? up from what? Your 1 mil? You're underestimating the grind.

Nada. Getting 4M+ may seen long, but it isn't. As of now, I need 2.56M Ap, because the AP goes up by only 100k each time. It's not difficult.

[anaxie]

You litterally spent over 3 paragraphs talking how "LUL! RNG SUCKS! And Wow, AP sucks too. And becuz of dis, legion sux. Face it blizz, ya suck", feel happy now that your "Small" rant is done? Must I mention all of the RNG from past expansions? RNG like such is not new in MMOs. Final fantasy is doing well though...so...maybe join that...maybe?

You just went full scrublord

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Nada. Getting 4M+ may seen long, but it isn't. As of now, I need 2.56M Ap, because the AP goes up by only 100k each time. It's not difficult.

Yeah wait till you need FOUR BILLION to get the 7.2 traits

doing the same 5 mans non stop all expansion 24/7 HOW FUN

[avx81]

Legion isn't bad. Well, class design is, but that's about it.

Next topic?

Class design sucks. The AP grind sucks. The legendary loot system sucks. Legendary balance sucks. I'm all for rng but there is to much rng in this expansion. To much titanforging rng. I saw someone with a Mythic 8 item which is 860 that titanforged all the way to 910. Meanwhile after 900m+ runs total the highest titanforge I have seen is 885. Ya I'm complaining. There is way to much rng.

The NH raid was done well. Leveling and questing was done well. Other than that its trash.

[TheFirstOnes]

Don't play them yet work on them vs Ret stronger.

I mean we don't do the same content and never would. we are not going to agree on views because you represent everything I despise in people I avoid playing with in games.

So, just because I am telling you the reasoning as to why the AP grind isn't as bad as it's "Said to be", and the reasoning as to why RNG isn't a new thing, you get triggered and call me things such as a "Filthy Pleb" and all? Very mature. 10/10. Totally roasted. You got me good.

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You just went full scrublord

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Yeah wait till you need FOUR BILLION to get the 7.2 traits

doing the same 5 mans non stop all expansion 24/7 HOW FUN

Again, not final notes. And again, how mature...

[anaxie]

You mistook what I meant by WF, but eh.
The actual progression guild/environment is different to what most people here are subject to. I'm saying that you don't need 54+ traits if you aren't pushing progression in mythic, and you def don't need 54+ alts if you're not in at least the top 300.
Most of the people here don't fall in either category.

And what's the world rank we're looking at, for the sake of argument? 800-1k you can be pretty relaxed with 1 spec @ 54 (which isn't much other than playing the same character/spec since launch, with minimal AP farming)

top 100 World

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So, just because I am telling you the reasoning as to why the AP grind isn't as bad as it's "Said to be", and the reasoning as to why RNG isn't a new thing, you get triggered and call me things such as a "Filthy Pleb" and all? Very mature. 10/10. Totally roasted. You got me good.

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Again, not final notes. And again, how mature...

even if it's not final notes. the grind is still going to be similar to doing the current one all over again.

I bet that is really fun for everyone involved when previous to Legion you didn't have to spend hundreds of hours grinding your face into the ground to do the raid mythic or previous Heroic.

[McNeil]

Out of all the issues Legion has, this one sounds less concerning. And I wouldn't call Legion bad just because of that.

[Effenz]

top 100 World

Then yes, but then again you knew what you signed up for. I agree that it's unsubstainable as well, the grinding is a little much. People want things to do and to get stronger from everything they do, but how do you do it in such a way that it's not mandatory for the people who want to be the best? Maybe the way how MoP I think had heroics where you had to do 7 a week and you could do them all in one day if you so desired, would be the best way to add something, moving forward.
I actually don't see the AP system in the next expansion going forward, it was an experiment that they tried and failed. I do enjoy the concept of it but the paragon level wasn't needed, at all.

I think they originally intended AP to be relevant to the first 54 throughout the expansion, not just throughout the first tier. Maybe they should've added a cap to AP in the earlies. Increase acquisition rate but add a cap with catchups.

How do you add a system that's rewarding for the shitty kids but not exploitable/made mandatory by progamers?

[Erolian]

Then yes, but then again you knew what you signed up for. I agree that it's unsubstainable as well, the grinding is a little much. People want things to do and to get stronger from everything they do, but how do you do it in such a way that it's not mandatory for the people who want to be the best? Maybe the way how MoP I think had heroics where you had to do 7 a week and you could do them all in one day if you so desired, would be the best way to add something, moving forward.
I actually don't see the AP system in the next expansion going forward, it was an experiment that they tried and failed. I do enjoy the concept of it but the paragon level wasn't needed, at all.

I think they originally intended AP to be relevant to the first 54 throughout the expansion, not just throughout the first tier. Maybe they should've added a cap to AP in the earlies. Increase acquisition rate but add a cap with catchups.

How do you add a system that's rewarding for the shitty kids but not exploitable/made mandatory by progamers?

You just make it take a lot of effort but not something that's unbelievable and makes anyone want to quit the game that completes it. Its like nobody realizes that being able to actually finish with AP for a patch is a good thing. Tons of casual players haven't even seen 54 traits yet and its doing its job wonderfully for them as we speak meanwhile I'm working on getting my third weapon to 54. As you can see me getting 3 weapons to 54 is probably a little bit too much but just one weapon is giving the majority of the player base something to work towards every day. Why not just make AP class wide and when you finish you can just stop until the next patch? Most players won't make it to that point until the very end and the rest of us won't hate the game because we get a break. Its not like they have to worry about our sub we're fucking raiding every week. I don't understand how this is a bad thing.

[anaxie]

Then yes, but then again you knew what you signed up for. I agree that it's unsubstainable as well, the grinding is a little much. People want things to do and to get stronger from everything they do, but how do you do it in such a way that it's not mandatory for the people who want to be the best? Maybe the way how MoP I think had heroics where you had to do 7 a week and you could do them all in one day if you so desired, would be the best way to add something, moving forward.
I actually don't see the AP system in the next expansion going forward, it was an experiment that they tried and failed. I do enjoy the concept of it but the paragon level wasn't needed, at all.

I think they originally intended AP to be relevant to the first 54 throughout the expansion, not just throughout the first tier. Maybe they should've added a cap to AP in the earlies. Increase acquisition rate but add a cap with catchups.

How do you add a system that's rewarding for the shitty kids but not exploitable/made mandatory by progamers?

Thats not what anyone signed up for because the game hasnt been in this horrible state since TBC went live to now.

[shoegazing]

So, because class design isn't really the best, you think it's the worst expansion ever? Yeah, let's just forget the 2 years of horror that was WoD! Yeah, let's forget the cancer that was Cata, let's forget about some of MoPs BS, and let's forget about the whole OP DK business back at wrath. And must I mention TBC? God, some people never learn...

It's not that class design merely "isn't the best" it's that it's actually the worst it has ever been and nothing else even comes close.

Huge swaths of empty space covering my action bars, missing 15+ abilities that I've had for over a decade, and the only part of the Rogue I have played for 12+ years that I still recognize is the transmog, lol.

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Not really. If you can find a spec you enjoy on some level, the rest of the expansion can be enjoyed. That many classes I used to enjoy no longer are, simply means I have less alts, and that's fine too.

I have every single class at 100+ on both factions and yet I have not found a single character that I enjoy playing in this horrible, dumbed down, trash expansion.

[TheFirstOnes]

It's not that class design merely "isn't the best" it's that it's actually the worst it has ever been and nothing else even comes close.

Huge swaths of empty space covering my action bars, missing 15+ abilities that I've had for over a decade, and the only part of the Rogue I have played for 12+ years that I still recognize is the transmog, lol.

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I have every single class at 100+ on both factions and yet I have not found a single character that I enjoy playing in this horrible, dumbed down, trash expansion.

Strange, I remember hearing that exact same shit, somewhere along the lines of cataclysm, when the rogues got their legendary daggers...hmmm...

Also, no joy in playing any class 100+? WHAT?! Does that apply to ret as well? Are ya kidding? They're amazing, right now...

[Effenz]

You just make it take a lot of effort but not something that's unbelievable and makes anyone want to quit the game that completes it. Its like nobody realizes that being able to actually finish with AP for a patch is a good thing. Tons of casual players haven't even seen 54 traits yet and its doing its job wonderfully for them as we speak meanwhile I'm working on getting my third weapon to 54. As you can see me getting 3 weapons to 54 is probably a little bit too much but just one weapon is giving the majority of the player base something to work towards every day. Why not just make AP class wide and when you finish you can just stop until the next patch? Most players won't make it to that point until the very end and the rest of us won't hate the game because we get a break. I don't understand how this is a bad thing.

Yes, but again I see the flip side which is the shitty kids complaining that "they have nothing to do"
I totally think that the new patch and the amount of AP you need is unnecessary, and I agree with people who decide that they just don't like that and stop playing. Admittedly I haven't even chosen a main yet so I kinda dick around, do ~9-12 keys and N/H with my guild. As it stands now the system is something I really don't even pay attention to.

WRT legendaries, I personally would've made them similar to the way the pvp talents work (one thing I actually do like a lot) where you gain them through gameplay, not RNG. And I'd honestly just limit them to extra effects, not actual pieces of gear. I don't mind too much how they are right now, but that's more because I choose not to chase the top 100 dream, and I think that people who aren't chasing the dream are putting way too much stress on themselves for naught.

[WowIsDead64]

I actually asked for endgame system, that would be some sort of leveling at level cap. AP system - is such system, yeah. But I agree, that since MOP we have been needing system, that: 1) Would limit daily/weekly progression, so it won't be mandatory to grind as much, as possible 2) Would able player to catch up at any moment, when he would have enough free time to do it. I.e. yeah - we need: 1) Daily/weekly cap 2) To keep unused cap. What was the biggest problem with MOP? I couldn't do all the crap, I should have been doing back then, every single day due to not enough time during work days. But I was able to catchup during weekend. Guess what? I couldn't due to this stupid "missed stuff today - will never catch up" system.

[TheFirstOnes]

top 100 World

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even if it's not final notes. the grind is still going to be similar to doing the current one all over again.

I bet that is really fun for everyone involved when previous to Legion you didn't have to spend hundreds of hours grinding your face into the ground to do the raid mythic or previous Heroic.

When you said top 100 world, I laughed my ass off. Yes, they're going to grind, cause they're the TOP players in the world. They're no casual player...

Also, grinding my ass? Dude, I am rank 41, and I am able to join in a fucking botanist heroic. Hell, we KILLED him at the 3rd attempt...

[GMZohar1]

Legion isn't bad. Well, class design is, but that's about it.

Next topic?

Thiiiiiiiis, like for real.. The whole "ability pruning" is destroying class design.. Like my Monk does not feel Monk-ish anymore at all, my Monk and DHs feel very Diablo 3ish.. You got your 6 abilities and thats it lol very very bad, but other than that Legion is pretty awesome