A Conservative view of Government.

[Theodarzna]

Because I need others in order to have a better chance to survive, just as everyone else does. I just don't need "close intimate bonds and societies like that" to do this. Like I said, what others need or not is not based on what your idea of what they need just because you want them to need it, which is what religion espouses.

Should a community endure you if you don't want to participate?

More over, thanks to our technical wonderland you can live in complete isolation if one so chose.

I am not sure if you are addressing anything I am saying.

[Total Crica]

Should a community endure you if you don't want to participate?

I can participate without your ideas of how I should be participating enforced.

[Theodarzna]

I can participate without your ideas of how I should be participating enforced.

What is enforcement?

[Total Crica]

What is enforcement?

In the context of my post, ensuring your ideas are followed by others.

[Theodarzna]

In the context of my post, ensuring your ideas are followed by others.

What would that mean?

[Total Crica]

What would that mean?

It means whatever you decide it means in order for you to enforce that decision for others.

[Theodarzna]

It means whatever you decide it means in order for you to enforce that decision for others.

That is vague. I really can't have such a discussion because I am unsure what you mean by enforce of force.

[Glorious Leader]

I can participate without your ideas of how I should be participating enforced.

No you really cant. See you were arguing earlier that it was a collectivr agreement in favor of private property that gave you the justification for removing me from the land by force. You dont get to opt out of that when you dont like it. Its all well and good when the force of the collective is backing sone value you like but when its not well then whatever that collective is needs to die! How dare religion enforce its belief and custom on me! HYPOCRIT.STATIST.

[Total Crica]

you were arguing earlier that it was a collective agreement in favor of private property

No, I was arguing that others have decided that is how things will work when they are present and as long as they are able to enforce this decision on others, then there is nothing you or I can do about that beyond fighting them, doing as they want or giving up and dying.

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That is vague. I really can't have such a discussion because I am unsure what you mean by enforce of force.

There is no one but yourself that can help you be sure of your own ideas of what you wish to enforce on others.

[Glorious Leader]

In the context of my post, ensuring your ideas are followed by others.

No, I was arguing that others have decided that is how things will work and as long as they do, then there is nothing you or I can do about that beyond fighting them, doing as they want or giving up and dying.

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There is no one but yourself that can help you be sure of your own ideas.

Ridicuous and the argument still applies to religion. The religipus decided how you and i should live along time ago too bad! Its not a rational or ethical justification for anything.

[Theodarzna]

No, I was arguing that others have decided that is how things will work when they are present and as long as they are able to enforce this decision on others, then there is nothing you or I can do about that beyond fighting them, doing as they want or giving up and dying.

There is no one but yourself that can help you be sure of your own ideas of what you wish to enforce on others.

Nobody here as far as I know has described anything resembling enforcement. If on a plot of land it is the custom to worship some tree spirit and you decided to desecrate the shrine so to speak, you'll likely be exiled from the group. While you are radically free to do so, you would likely be excommunicated as that specific society probably doesn't hold a value of "Right to desecrate the shrine," as a big one.

It seems you want to have your cake and eat it too. as for my Ideas, I am asking you to define what YOU are talking about.

[xChurch]

Progress is a tricky and problematic term. We don't know if any of the stuff you describe would actually happen and not itself create entirely new or even worse and more overwhelming problems. After all the greatest source of problems, is solutions to previous problems.

First I think a video lesson might help illuminate things:

Humanity adapts, it's pretty much what we do better than anything else on the planet. It seems strange to me that you look at the uncertainty of the future as something to regress from rather than push ahead into. I don't think we are capable of the level of devolution that you seem to desire, nor would it provide what you think. The problems you have are more with our maturity and adaptability as a species than a particular size or style of governance.

[Total Crica]

If on a plot of land it is the custom to worship some tree spirit

And they decide to enforce their idea to worship some tree spirit on everyone else who also occupies that plot of land, that is religion, and it needs to die.

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Its not a rational or ethical justification for anything.

Your claim doesn't ensure they don't enforce their ideas on you anyway.

[Glorious Leader]

And they decide to enforce the law so that all have to worship some tree spirit, that is religion, and it needs to die.

If on a plot they all ownership to an individual as custom and they decide to enforce it well thats a okay!!

[Theodarzna]

Humanity adapts, it's pretty much what we do better than anything else on the planet. It seems strange to me that you look at the uncertainty of the future as something to regress from rather than push ahead into. I don't think we are capable of the level of devolution that you seem to desire, nor would it provide what you think. The problems you have are more with our maturity and adaptability as a species than a particular size or style of governance.

We adapt at the speed that biology allows. Humans don't adapt any faster than that.

The term "regress," is itself a loaded and problematic term. If anything I am suggesting a change of course, or adaptation that you so fondly mention. It's just not one you are fond of. Plus I suspect its one you're radically misunderstanding. Terms like Regress, Devolution, ect are themselves incredibly problematic and even slightly racist towards the societies that have a different mode of life and still do have a different mode of life.

My problem is with the universality and totality the ideology of globalization and modernity. Our present way is heading for a cliff, let us now ask the civilization questions of we might be expected to live and organize now while we can comfortably transition, rather than have a reckoning force something upon us.

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And they decide to enforce their idea to worship some tree spirit on everyone else who also occupies that plot of land, that is religion, and it needs to die.

What would enforcement look like?

[xChurch]

We adapt at the speed that biology allows. Humans don't adapt any faster than that.

The term "regress," is itself a loaded and problematic term. If anything I am suggesting a change of course, or adaptation that you so fondly mention. It's just not one you are fond of. Plus I suspect its one you're radically misunderstanding. Terms like Regress, Devolution, ect are themselves incredibly problematic and even slightly racist towards the societies that have a different mode of life and still do have a different mode of life.

My problem is with the universality and totality the ideology of globalization and modernity. Our present way is heading for a cliff, let us now ask the civilization questions of we might be expected to live and organize now while we can comfortably transition, rather than have a reckoning force something upon us.

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What would enforcement look like?

Not really sure how else to accurately describe what you're aiming for. You can't really separate globalization from our progress as a species. To go back to a smaller world is essentially trying to take us back in time. If the tribal simpler way was really better and more fulfilling, how did we get to where we are now? How would you prevent the same growth from repeating itself even post reckoning? Do you honestly believe that humanity as a species can go back, or do you see it more as trying to sound a more cautious tone about our current pace of advancement?

[Total Crica]

If on a plot they all ownership to an individual as custom and they decide to enforce it well thats a okay!!

Is this sarcasm?

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What would enforcement look like?

Make them worship the tree spirit as well or face consequences from them if they did not.

[Theodarzna]

Not really sure how else to accurately describe what you're aiming for. You can't really separate globalization from our progress as a species. To go back to a smaller world is essentially trying to take us back in time. If the tribal simpler way was really better and more fulfilling, how did we get to where we are now? How would you prevent the same growth from repeating itself even post reckoning? Do you honestly believe that humanity as a species can go back, or do you see it more as trying to sound a more cautious tone about our current pace of advancement?

Progress at cost, and its questionable that we can sustain ourselves. Divisions, local autonomy and scaling back global capitalism for the sake of our survival seems like not a bad idea considering the alternative is extinction.

The video I show does display part of the narrative of history. I'm not advocating anything exactly like what you are describing except for a scaling back of state power in a sense to allow those refugees created by this system to take refugee from it versus being annihilated by it.

If you want to "move forward," (as problematic as that term is) you must know where you have been, and if something is not working you must learn from what has proven to work.

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Make them worship the tree spirit as well or face consequences from them if they did not.

What consequences are you expecting and how are people being made to do anything?

[Total Crica]

What consequences are you expecting and how are people being made to do anything?

Being made to worship a tree spirit (or whatever other idea THEY want to make others do) by their force - consequences of being fined, jailed, beaten, starved, ostracized, killed (or anything else THEY do to others ) by their force.

[Theodarzna]

Being made to worship a tree spirit (or whatever other idea THEY want to make others do) by their force - consequences of being fined, jailed, beaten, starved, ostracized, killed (or anything else THEY do to others ) by their force.

I never described any of that except ostracism.

There are and always will be social pressures to take part in communal rituals and observances to face a level of acceptance in said community. If you find yourself among a community that worships some tree god and you spit on it, then you might find the local women/men on willing to sleep with you. Their hospitality rescinded and their opinion of you to be lesser.

Have you been forced? Well no.