Who would've won

[Theoris]

Experience in commanding rangers means absolutely nothing when you're facing an enemy 1v1 you've had very little experience with. Not to mention, as I said, that 70 year old wolf fights as well and strong as VARIAN WRYNN, who was VASTLY stronger than Sylvanas, Especially in 1v1 combat.

Reminder that Sylvanas grabbed a wolf and ripped its head off. She's pretty strong. And, as the Stormheim cinematic showed, she's very agile.
She might not beat Varian, but she'd probably beat Greymane in a real fight.

By the way, I can't recall it has been stated that Genn is as strong as Varian. If you have a source I'd appreciate a link.

[Lady Dragonheart]

Its a damn shame because from many MMO champ threads I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.

Sadly, with this point, I wholeheartedly agree...

[TheFirstOnes]

1. I edited to add on the last part. instead of just leaving it at "That's not two words buddy"

2. Head cannon should not be considered facts

3. white knight doesn't even work there

1. I understand that, and I replied to such.

2. It's no headcanon I clearly said "I hate both of them, since they both had flaws in their event". Genn dropped his guard, and wanted to hurt sylvanas, sylvanas got him back, and they both lost something that day. Genn lost sylvanas, since she ran, and sylvanas lost her immortality. No headcannon here.

3. Headcanon doesn't work here either...

- - - Updated - - -

Fuck it. I'm done. I can't believe so many people are triggered by this. LUL! Let's see how many Sylvanas/Genn fanbois start crying over my opinionated rants. Tomorrow is gonna be gud...

[Friendlyimmolation]

Then, how about you take them up and shed light on them. I have a feeling that you aren't capable of it, though, considering how much you were proving my point already. Multiple times, even. Ones in which you never even went back to elaborate on either, derailing to this instead.

I would prefer to see what you honestly mean on the matter, let alone his. Without the drivel and insults, of course. I truly think that you are fully capable of proving your point, somehow. You either aren't showing me the respect in such by refusing to elaborate, or you're tired of searching for prove that won't end up being counter-productive... like a wiki-page...

Once again you saying "prove my point" isn't an argument. I have explained multiple times why she is not a Mary Sue, if you need it repeated again I will

A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character, a young or low-rank person who saves the day through unrealistic abilities, sometimes with the intent to inspire young or marginalized people and show them that even they can have as great of a potential as leading characters. Often this character is recognized as an author insert or wish-fulfillment.[1] Sometimes the name is reserved only for women, and male Sues are called "Larry Stus," "Gary Stus," or "Marty Stus"; but more often the name is used for both sexes.[2][3]


1.Sylvanas is idolized by the forsaken, if you use this as basis for your argument then you must say that all wow leaders are Mary Sues

However Sylvanas is not idolized by any other race, so she does not fit the criteria, if you ever bother to read a book with an actual Mary sue, the people that do not idolize the character can usually be counted on one hand.

2. Sylvanas is not low rank, She "saved the day" by breaking free of the lich king and helping other forsaken break through as well, because it was not her doing and the weakening of the lich king, that can not be attributed to "special powers" Unless Kids are alot weirder than I remember, The creation of the forsaken was not made in an attempt to inspire a young target audience.

3.This next one is on you, go out and find a single instance where you can say sylvanas is a character insert or wish fulfillment.

Tv tropes goes into it more

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue

unless you want to count Sylvanas having bleached skin red eyes and dark hair because shes undead as proof she is a Mary sue, she does not fit the physical description, if you say she is a Mary Sue because she is insanely good at archery I will point out that nearly everyone in her family (sans Liarath and Vereesa) have been excellent archers. Her banshee powers while substantial are nothing compared to say Illidan, Arthas, Aszhara, etc.

As for accomplishments, if you want to call her a Mary sue because she took over lordaeron, im going to point out that's like saying Arthas was a Mary sue because he destroyed capitol city, or that Jaina is a Mary Sue because she almost drowned Org. Feats of strength and or Wit do not make you a Mary sue.

The closest thing we have had to a Mary sue is Rhonin. You see this in that an elven wife is written into the story for him, he is constantly described on how awesome he is, you get a overwhelming sense that the author wants you to like him, hes the ultimate cool guy mage and goes back in time to teach Illidan magic and then is blessed with two half elf babies and gets to see them get born via time magic. Sylvanas, even when she was alive was never written in a way to be loved automatically by anyone, she is not portrayed as the best person at everything like rhonin was, and unlike rhoinin( until the very end) failed. When she is described it is not to glorify how Firey her red hair is or how sexy her nose is etc.

TLDR

You confuse feats of strength with Mary Sue material, and when you compare the way she is written to an actual Mary Sue in WoW they don't match up.

It's like If I said Grom Hellscream was a Mary Sue because he beat up Cenarius and Manny.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Well seeing how Greymane was already wounded towards the end..

[Schattenlied]

Sylvanas is about 20,000 years old

You aren't serious... right? Please tell me you don't actually believe that...

Sylvanas wasn't even old enough to be a ranger at the time of the second war, when her parents were killed by orcs.

High Elves aren't immortal, Anasterian Sunstrider was around ~3000 when he died and he was considered ancient.

I'd put Slyvie's age closer to 100 before her death at the hands of Arthas, if that.

[Theoris]

You aren't serious... right? Please tell me you don't actually believe that...

Sylvanas wasn't even old enough to be a ranger at the time of the second war, when her parents were killed by orcs.

She actually was a ranger in the Second War, they just retconned her being Ranger General at the time.

I'd put Slyvie's age closer to 100 before her death at the hands of Arthas, if that.

Her age hasn't been specified, but since she's younger than Alleria (who has been stated to be several centuries old) and older than Vereesa it's probably somewhere over a few hundred.

[Rend Blackhand]

Sylvanas had plenty of time to follow her arrow with one or two more right into Greymane's human body. That's how it should have gone, dead wolf man. He's nothing special.

[Stelio Kontos]

I voted Greymane, but I'm past puberty, so I'm not swayed by an exposed midriff.

[Melusine]

not to mention sylvanas is fairly durable. If she can survive a jump off of Icecrown, it makes sense why when Genn whacked her he didn't leave a mark.

Sylvanas didn't survive the jump off Icecrown Citadel. She died. The only reason she was pulled from Nyalotha was because Annhylde took her place in Nyalotha and brought her back. IOW, she got her ass rezzed.

[KrazyK923]

Sylvanas solely because of plot armor.

Somebody beat me to it.

[Zyky]

LOL... He walked away because he had already WON. He didn't set out to beat her ass, he accomplished exactly what he set out to do -- Ole "Deadmane" walked away content with himself while the Banshee Queen was left gripping hard on her bow aghast at what happened. How long do you think she stood there starring off into the distance choking on her rage?

Seriously, if you take the Horde blinders off you'll realize winning the fight was irrelevant at that point.

Ya he won, taking a plague arrow to the chest. Keep deluding yourself kiddo.

[Theoris]

I voted Greymane, but I'm past puberty, so I'm not swayed by an exposed midriff.

She doesn't wear that skimpy armor anymore.

[Deleted]

On paper - Sylvanas for 100%.

Thou, I guess they will buff his character a bit and it will prolly end up with he is killing Sylvanas.

[avoidconfusion]

Sylvanas... and I don't particularly care about either of them.

[Sail into the wind]

Sylvanas and Greymane are both Hunters, so it comes down to the racials. Genn would pop Darkflight and catch up to Sylvanas as she writes a wall of text on the official forums, lamenting how useless Underwater Breathing is. Sylvanas is promptly torn to shreds. The end.

[Ielenia]

That fight in particular is stacked against Greymane, due to the poison in his body. That arrow stuck in his chest, from what we learn later on, had lethal poison in it, but Greymane didn't die because he was treated quickly. So from what we know, Greymane was on a 'timer', per se, to beat her. That's a big advantage for Sylvanas. The Banshee Queen is cold and calculating, and Greymane (due to the curse?) is a hothead. Greymane also has the super-human strength and speed due to the curse, so that should help closing in the distance to make it hard for her to use her bow, though I don't know if he could beat her before the poison did him in, considering he was already showing signs of weakness after smashing Sylvanas' magic lantern.

[Nero Stormchester]

Against an unarmoured target perhaps. The reason this person draws from ancient pictures and texts is because it was only useful in ancient times when we hadn't developed "modern" armour. I couldn't care less who would win in some fantasy battle and using real life logic and reason in an attempt to negotiate lore and fantasy in a world we didn't create seems foolish albeit benign.

Just wanted to say that your reason and logic is a misadventure. Even Ancient Roman and Greek armour would not be penetrated by a bow that humans could draw that fast and any bow that offered the necessary force to penetrate could not be wielded in such a way. The man is a skilled jester and perhaps 10,000 years ago a skilled "war-archer" but, don't believe everything you watch.

An unarmored target like Greymane was ? Also the video clearly showed the dude piercing chain-mail. And you're right , I dont believe everything I see or read in comments from strangers. Plate armor was very efficient at stopping arrows , however it was also very expensive and weighed you down like crazy. But we're getting off-topic.
We're talking about Sylvanas vs Greymane. I was asked how would Sylvanas being a ranger help her in close combat , and I replied that a bow (in RL or even more so in a fantasy game) can be deadly in close range linking a video source for reference. I see zero issues here. I also referred to the in-game cinematic to show that she didn't have an issue disengaging from Grey, and thus avoiding the close combat altogether.
Your response on the other hand has little common sense and no evidence , and can be summarised as: "Nuh-uh, bowz r stupid, armor stop arrows , get logicz "

[Spiffums]

It's gonna be funny when Greymane is the next big villain because he effectively lead because of his personal views......same as Jania.

[Nero Stormchester]

Sylvanas and Greymane are both Hunters, so it comes down to the racials. Genn would pop Darkflight and catch up to Sylvanas as she writes a wall of text on the official forums, lamenting how useless Underwater Breathing is. Sylvanas is promptly torn to shreds. The end.

Ahaha, you made lol