Consumables getting out of hand

[Akka]

This was literally never the case.

TBC from 2.1 and WotLK said hi.

you even had to chain mana potions as a hunter or you couldn't keep spamming arcane/multi/aimed shot all fight and we're left with auto shot.

"switching to aspect of the viper" is rather different than "being left with auto-shoot".

[faithbane]

Back then it was only flasks (2 hours) and food

Is this "Back then" the same imaginary back then that Trump is trying to take america back to to be great again?

Lets take a quick look at "back then" and what you needed to bring to raid:

- flasks (30 min at first actually)
- elixirs of two different kind
- Stat scrolls
- Mana potions
- Health potions
- Resistance potions
- Food

+ REPAIR BOTS (there was a time before jeeves)

+ bunch of situation/boss specific items that you had to get from elsewhere (farm stratholme for holy water anyone?)

+ Class specific items ( Ankhs, portal/teleport tokens, poisons, BAGS FULL OF ARROWS/BULLETS, oh if u are a lock do enjoy spending an hour before raid to farm shards as well...)

[Deleted]

Good guilds have a working guild bank which provide their raiders with repairs, consumables and other stuff.

[Hottage]

Haha, the flasks and runes may be expensive but at least they last 2 hours and don't expire on death.

I get PTSD from the amount of farming I had to do on my mage to prepare my paladin for raids in vanilla.

Literally 12+ hours of picking herbs a week, and that was just to break even on all the potions, flasks, food, Winterfall Firewater, etc, etc...

[Revi]

I think consumables are fine, but they are too powerful atm. Flask + potions is a 3-4k str buff depending on length of fight, that's several gear pieces worth of raw str. The difference between using them and not is too large, so they become "mandatory" even on low difficulty and when you're already confident on killing the boss.

If they just toned it down so they would matter on progression fights but not be impactful enough to always matter, it would be fine.

[Akka]

I think consumables are fine, but they are too powerful atm. Flask + potions is a 3-4k str buff depending on length of fight, that's several gear pieces worth of raw str. The difference between using them and not is too large, so they become "mandatory" even on low difficulty and when you're already confident on killing the boss.

If they just toned it down so they would matter on progression fights but not be impactful enough to always matter, it would be fine.

That I pretty much agree.
Even the "low" potions give 2500 stat for a full minute. That's rather insane.

[Deleted]

Anyone else getting annoyed by the number of consumables required in raiding and mythic plus? Back then it was only flasks (2 hours) and food, now it's flasks food potions runes and vantus, costing gold is not the only issue, but whenever the boss doesnt die, you might get blamed for not eating this and that. Please Blizzard make it simple and allow a maximum of 2 buffs and be done with it.

Stop. Just stop. 4 buffs is already much more friendly than earlier expansions

[cFortyfive]

Do you have anysort of shit to back you up? I mean numbers or something?
I understand the idea behind it tho, min-max, that's what its all about, but..... Does it really matter that much?
Does it override: Gear, skills, talents?

Override in what sense ? Of course you are getting more from having better gear - a pot and 2k mainstats are not going to make up for 10 ilvls still using a pot at the right time certainly can make an encounter easier or even possible for your not actually so hardcore raid. My guild currently is lacking a bit of damage and using pots certainly made the difference for instance on tichondrius m between the first kill and an enrage wipe. Same basically was true for the spellblade first kill.
Obviously I am not saying you need to chuck two old wars and a defiled rune on your normal kills but I don't see any good reason to not use them on mythic even in a not so hardcore environment.

[klaps_05]

very few rogues were doing it, but also Thistle tea for raiding was solid(tho most would be spent on ganking)

[Deleted]

I enjoy the food buffs, and i always have, its one of the reasons i play Pandaren, so i get 2 times the buff, as for vantos runes, you only have to buy 1 every week, and the small runes just give 1%, so safe them for when you get a progress kill to less then 10%

[Phlegethon]

Anyone else getting annoyed by the number of consumables required in raiding and mythic plus? Back then it was only flasks (2 hours) and food, now it's flasks food potions runes and vantus, costing gold is not the only issue, but whenever the boss doesnt die, you might get blamed for not eating this and that. Please Blizzard make it simple and allow a maximum of 2 buffs and be done with it.

Funny this. You remember, back in vanilla...
Bet you don't

[Deleted]

We get cauldrons and vantus runes from GBank(funded by boost runs & raid BoE's), prolonged potions are cheap / easy to make yourself, and augment runes + old war/deadly grace are required only on harder DPS checks (early Krosus, prenerf Augur)

[Deleted]

It has always been like that. Always... Using consumables increase your output by big margin and its the only tool in the game you can use to push your own limits.
Do a simple math:
- main stat is worth between 12 and 15 point of damage - so a flask of 1300 stat is worth between 15k and 19k dps;
- using 2 potions is worth between 4 and 7 mln raw damage within the fight duration;
- vantus rune is 3% raw dps increase;
- secondary main stat is also worth between 12 and 15 point of damage - so a food of 375 stats is worth between 3k and 5k dps
So lets see what happens here with rough nubmers. Average Joe should be pulling around 450 000 dps in NH Hc gear without consumables.
But if Average Joe use consumables his dps will look like
(Main dps value 450 000+ Averaged dps value of flask (19 000+15 000)/2+ Averaged dps value of food(5 000+3 000)/2 + Averaged dps value of potion ~16 000)*1.03
Or after the BIG calculation we see that Average Joe's dps will look like something in range of 500k+ dps or roughly 10% dmg increase. Now imagine how much of a dps increase this will be for someone who know their shit and pull their weight in raid.

Anyone who know about those numbers will want from you to use the consumables if you join their group and you yourself, if you consider yourself as a proper raider, will use consumables even on farm.
Do not use "bla bla bla expansive consumables bla bla blah im lazy to farm gold" for excuse. There are enough tools given in the game to reduce the amount of gold you can spend on consumables. Just play the game...

[TEHPALLYTANK]

I actually wouldn't mind more consumables tbh. Bring back whetstones, oils and utility potions! And I still think it would be great if unique utilities were all available in a weaker form through consumables like heroism is through drums; bring me a scroll that has the effect of Gorefiend's grasp and I would carry a stack on me at all times.

Yeah, because the 30 slot bag entirely full of gear for my offspecs and off-pieces isn't enough. I have 8 bloody trinkets, 2 are exclusively for Ret, one exclusively for prot, one for holy, three that are shared between prot/ret and one that is used for all 3 specs. I also have 4 legendaries, only one of which is good for all specs(belt) so that is 3 offpieces. Now toss in cloaks enchants and neck enchants, that is 2 cloaks and 3 necks. Then add in the pieces I keep because of the different stat priorities for each spec, and the other pieces I have to keep on hand so I can equip upgrades without dropping my haste too low.

TL;DR: I hate legendaries being spec-specific instead of class specific, and I want reforging back.

[Socialhealer]

"switching to aspect of the viper" is rather different than "being left with auto-shoot".

yeh "Vipers may appear sluggish, but they can lash out with deadly speed and precision. The hunter takes on the aspect of the viper, causing ranged attacks to regenerate mana but reducing total damage done by 50%."

chug mana potions effectively or take a 50% damage reduction hit, wonder which hunters will be getting kicked from raids for shit dps.

[babalou1]

you forgot scrolls in vanilla, we used them too

I knew I left something out

You forgot tomes for spec changes between AoE and ST encounters

Yeah but eh. I know way to many that dont even bring them. But still, we're talking 4 slots minimum vs 9. Even more if you happen to carry more than 1 stack of each (and back then you did).


I have half a bag filled with consumables on live. 2 stacks Multiple healing, 2 stacks of mana, 4 stacks of various food (actually have 3 different foods), 1 stack of Prolonged and 2 stacks Old War, 2 stacks of Gliders, 1 stack of Strength, 1 stack of Int flasks, 1 stack Invis pot, 1 stack avalanche potion, 1 stack of tomes, and 1 stack of runes. Thats 19 spaces in a 30 slot bag.

I can shorten that to 6 if i wanted and not have an issue.


Vanilla you had at MINIMUM 9 different stacks (and thats only if you have 1 stack of each) in a backpack less than half the size we have now. If you were a shaman, you had 10 stacks. Hunter? You had an entire bag full of arrows. Consumables are WAY less now then back then.

[Dangg]

It's nothing compared to Vanilla and early BC.
That said I'm not raiding on a level where using Augment runes is mandatory.

[spanishninja]

Funny how the amount of pots flasks buffs temporary buffs, toys herbs etc usable in raids in classic was totally unlimited and you could run with 2-3 lines of buffs and there was no real money to gold from blizz.

i'm not saying that consummables were never out of hand before, just saying there's a reason they made it complicated again relative to recent xpacs.

[Deleted]

In the last two weeks I've made just over 2 million gold with alchemy / inscription. A regular raid week costs me roughly 50k as I make all my pots / flasks / tomes myself and as any mythic guild would, we get our Vantus runes from the guild. Looking at those sheer numbers, percentually compared to income levels Legion is so insanely cheap compared to vanilla or TBC, I remember farming golden pearls in vanilla, primal fire in TBC 8 - 10 hours a day on our none raiding days just to stay on a positive goldflow with the price of fully stacked consumables during raids.

[Teri]

I raided in vanilla nd bc, this is super easy for consumables.

Indeed, Black Lotus says hi, 1 per zone in limited number of zones, long respawn time, and soulbound until 1.7.

And then we had gimick buffs in Felwood like Songflower.

TBC was the era of rows of elixirs + flame cap, I remember that.