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  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plastkin View Post
    This is an inability to think at a grade school level. A cap does not require that one do everything in some fixed period of time. This was a failure of previous systems because they were badly implemented and this was thoroughly explained to them multiple times through multiple expansions.

    Meanwhile tons of people have pointed out you can just increase the cap every week so anyone can catch up and they've never once acknowledged that this solution exists.
    I find it funny how you preface your argument with a comment about thinking ability and then fail on that very front.

    They quite clearly state that the problem with a cap is it "inherently feels like more of an expected quota". Your solution does not solve the problem. It actually makes the problem worse, because now, if you happen to fall behind, you're constantly going to feel like you need to catch up to your expected quota.

    Quote Originally Posted by Plastkin View Post
    This is trying to awkwardly and idiotically implement a cap by exponentially increasing your gains but also exponentially increasing the requirements, you know, rather than.. just putting an increasing cap on it and making the gains linear.
    Because they result in two totally different outcomes.

    The system they implemented allows people who are prepared to put in constant effort every week to open up a gap of 2-4 traits over more casual players. The system you propose will result in everyone having to put in the same amount of effort and everyone having exactly the same result.

    The great thing about this system is that an individual can choose what is most appropriate for themselves: Aim to get the power first, but with a significantly greater amount of effort, or get the power later with a lot less total effort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Plastkin View Post
    Blizzard: failure to innovate. No reasoning capabilities. And absolutely the worst listening and communication skills of any consumer-facing business shy of Google. Why is Legion terrible? Unmatched incompetence and an elitist attitude by people too stupid to get a job at a company that isn't net 0-growth for nearing a decade.
    At best you're a pot and Blizzard is a kettle. The difference is Blizzard are using an electric stove....

  2. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightHaawk View Post
    Legion is legit worse than WoD
    Legion is better than pre-flight WoD.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gekai View Post
    If WOTLK would have been released as the most recent addon, a lot of people would have complained too...
    But nowhere near as many would have comaplined and/or quit as did in WoD/Legion. WotLK had flying and 10m mythic (named heroic then), the absence of those in WoD/Legion were/are their biggest issues.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Especially when Legion is lauded by most people as the best expansion since TBC.
    It was for awhile, now I only hear about how grindy and boring it is.

  4. #224
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    "If I don't cap every week, I'm permanently behind!!!1"

    Well Plastkin, even if your grade-school level fixes to the AP system was implemented, you'd just get other people to bitch instead.

    When it comes to MMO design, the AP system is extremely finely tuned for both casual and hardcore players. In fact, it's working so well people think it's worth their while to endlessly whine about a few percentages from the 'extended' traitlines. And what's more, endgame progression systems that are always relevant at some level is just what the game needs after the total failure of WoD. But yeah, people are going to bitch about the AP system throughout Legion, that is unavoidable. Because the system wasn't meant to be a one month grind at release and just a passive bonus afterwards for your main and alts.
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  5. #225
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    Legion gives the most reasons to play since TBC. Challenging content and high rewards for every playstyle. Bonuses like legendaries to shake up things. If you think this expac is worse than the others, then you didn't played other expacs, be on alzheimers or you are simply someone who isn't happy no matter what blizzard is doing.
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  6. #226
    Stood in the Fire Bloodydemize's Avatar
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    That's like your opinion man. Definitely prefer how it is to putting any form of cap on

  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phumbles View Post
    lol the levels of delusion people reach is amazing. I honestly think a high-level psychologist should study WoW forums.
    I think a good psychologist would make a fortune with some of the peeps in these forums..

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by zupf View Post
    Legion is the worst expansion. Yes, even worse than WoD. So I agree with op.
    You always post these comments without elaborating in the slightest. Throw in some actual insight because you just seem like you're trying to incite a crowd rather than actually contribute anything to the conversation.
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  9. #229
    I don't get how this thread is not locked, it's clearly going nowhere.

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plastkin View Post
    This is an inability to think at a grade school level. A cap does not require that one do everything in some fixed period of time.
    That exactly what it means. If you are serious about progression - cap is an expectation.
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  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Thyr View Post
    Legion gives the most reasons to play since TBC. Challenging content and high rewards for every playstyle. Bonuses like legendaries to shake up things. If you think this expac is worse than the others, then you didn't played other expacs, be on alzheimers or you are simply someone who isn't happy no matter what blizzard is doing.
    How can you not see your own ignorance in this post? You're literally saying the only valid opinion is the one you have - that Legion is the best expansion ever. Well, I disagree, here's why:

    If you want to "hardcore"-raid, meaning everything that's 5days+ in this case, you have to do alot more things than previously. For maximum preparation for EN, ToV and NH, you had to literally spam Mythic+ dungeons. For Months. For ToV and NH people did 50 dungeons a day for 1-2 weeks straight.

    You needed the AP, legendaries and high warforged/socketed loot. I'd argue all of those three "new additions" are bad. (For the hardcore-raider, mind you)

    In Warlords you still had Warforging, but only in raids. That was bad enough, but you couldn't spam raids 24/7 in preparation of the next raid. You didn't have legendaries randomly drop, you didn't have AP.

    All of this doesn't even include the disaster that is Worldquests, Suramar, the cost of flasks/pots/food etc. combined with having multiple characters.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by lightspark View Post
    Caps favour hardcore crowd waaaay more than casuals.

    Caps put a lot of pressure on casuals. Many casuals do a lot of stuff all the time, not cause they have to or are "forced" to stay competitive, kek, but cause they can and want, and hitting a limit/cap is quite bad for them. Others, on the other hand, play very little, if there's a cap on something and they can't/don't reach it, they often feel that they haven't accomplished anything. These two things were the most common complaints about JP/VP caps during WotLK.

    Hardcore crowd didn't really care about it, we could do everything that's capped in one day and then some of us would either focus on preparations for raids, or would simply stop playing during offraid days.
    Yeah but if you're casual it doesn't matter if you cap it or not. You aren't at risk of losing a progression raid spot for not capping something.

  13. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Algoma0 View Post
    How can you not see your own ignorance in this post? You're literally saying the only valid opinion is the one you have - that Legion is the best expansion ever. Well, I disagree, here's why:

    If you want to "hardcore"-raid, meaning everything that's 5days+ in this case, you have to do alot more things than previously. For maximum preparation for EN, ToV and NH, you had to literally spam Mythic+ dungeons. For Months. For ToV and NH people did 50 dungeons a day for 1-2 weeks straight.

    You needed the AP, legendaries and high warforged/socketed loot. I'd argue all of those three "new additions" are bad. (For the hardcore-raider, mind you)

    In Warlords you still had Warforging, but only in raids. That was bad enough, but you couldn't spam raids 24/7 in preparation of the next raid. You didn't have legendaries randomly drop, you didn't have AP.

    All of this doesn't even include the disaster that is Worldquests, Suramar, the cost of flasks/pots/food etc. combined with having multiple characters.
    Simple question if you detest world quests, and detest even more preparing for a raid (heaven help anyone having to put in some effort to be raid ready) why are you playing a MMO then?

    Or are you just complaining that everything is not given to you on a silver platter..
    Last edited by grexly75; 2017-02-21 at 11:56 AM.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    Simple question if you detest, world quests and detest even more preparing for a raid (heaven help anyone having to put in some effort) why are you playing a MMO then?

    Or are you just complaining that everything is not given to you on a silver platter..
    Preparing for difficult content is not challenging or fun. It is tedious. In Legion the time spent preparing for the content I want to play is absurdly high. It always was high, yes, but Legion made it almost impossible (for me). It used to be: Play 6-8 hours/day for a few weeks before progress. Now its: Play 6-8 hours/day before and after progression. And then play double that for progression. That's just not sustainable for me ( and others ).

    Yes, you can skip a few days here and there, but the principle stands.

  15. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Algoma0 View Post
    Preparing for difficult content is not challenging or fun. It is tedious. In Legion the time spent preparing for the content I want to play is absurdly high. It always was high, yes, but Legion made it almost impossible (for me). It used to be: Play 6-8 hours/day for a few weeks before progress. Now its: Play 6-8 hours/day before and after progression. And then play double that for progression. That's just not sustainable for me ( and others ).

    Yes, you can skip a few days here and there, but the principle stands.
    And this is where it gets interesting back in vanilla if you wanted to raid you had to prepare your ass off by farming mats for potions, farming this and farming that to be ready.. What we have today yes does require effort but it is pretty much a lot easier than what it used to be if you wanted to raid..

  16. #236
    What is a satisfactory power level for a player character? For most people it's surely the maximum power they can achieve within their means (playtime, access to content etc).

    This is the real reason why "Legion is so bad" - which it's not by the way, it's pretty great. However some of the core design systems are awful.

    Between AP grind and the ultimate Skinner box that is legendaries and RNGforged loot you have to spend countless hours grinding M+ to get near your own power 'cap'.

    7.2 promises to make that even worse.

    In an effort to make the game continuously rewarding (read incentivised to log in and therefore continue paying subs) for 1 spec, 1 character players from the casual to the semi-serious Blizzard have successfully implemented huge roadblocks to fun and enjoyment of an otherwise great expansion for every other type of player.

  17. #237
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    wotlk > legion(tho, ret is still terrible, 13th year in a row) > mop > cata > wod >= tbc

    And those saying that in vanilla and tbc it was better... i can only laugh at those. Between all the ghost mushroom farming, rep farming for resist gear, raiding unable to progress until you get 2p for all warriors, pointless attunements and many other annoying and grindy stuff, they call legion bad because of AP? Just priceless... And yes, i played wow since vanilla beta with my earliest sshots dating from june 2004 or something like that. I cant take anyone serious who claims that back then raiding and stuff was better, even more when they say it was hard, that is the best joke.

    I always find it funny how people think about vanilla and tbc... as if they either never actually played it or are seeing it through some tinted glasses and most likely remember the feeling as it was all new and unknown and didnt know better... but compared to wow today, it was terrible. It was a bloody nightmare compared to later expansions. Especially tbc, so bloody bad i actually offered money to friend to level my alts 60-70 just so i dont have to go through tbc ever again and always lose all will to play and level as soon as i get to tbc range and most of my alts were permanently stuck at level 60 for years. Yet those muppets claim tbc is best expansion ever. Yet they complain about legion systems being "too much", even tho they are not even close to bullshit from those times that they so love.

    Tho its quite funny how for WoD the issue was that there was nothing to do and no way to progress your character, but now that there is way to always progress, if ever so slightly, now the issue is that those special flowers feel obligated to do so, because they call themselves "hardcore". Also, blizzard never expected them to do so, they did it themselves, and EN turned to be "too easy". Then blizzard realized with who they are dealing with, so they made mythic with everyone being maxed out in mind and now they really need to do it. But now that is a bad thing... How is that not funny? I love it.
    Last edited by mmoc93208f15ee; 2017-02-21 at 01:03 PM.

  18. #238
    OMG Blizz is forcing me to play this game!!! Im gonna quit!!!
    LOL

  19. #239
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    Legion is - after MoP and maaaybe Wotlk - the best expansion so far, at least in my opinion. So I don't agree with the whole premise of the thread.

  20. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Algoma0 View Post
    Preparing for difficult content is not challenging or fun. It is tedious. In Legion the time spent preparing for the content I want to play is absurdly high. It always was high, yes, but Legion made it almost impossible (for me). It used to be: Play 6-8 hours/day for a few weeks before progress. Now its: Play 6-8 hours/day before and after progression. And then play double that for progression. That's just not sustainable for me ( and others ).

    Yes, you can skip a few days here and there, but the principle stands.
    Quite honestly, no one should pay any attention to you and make design decision based on what you prefer and what not... if you play 6-8h a day and feel like you didn't do enough, you are both crazy and actually wrong too.
    Unless you are earning money by playing wow, you are doing it wrong... and even if you are... you are - doing it wrong.
    You are the extreme and hard outliner, the 0,x% of the playerbase, no shits are given and I hope you know that. At least it's something you should keep in mind.

    That being said, you are not preparing for difficult content, you are preparing for server/world firsts, that's completely different.
    These guild have beaten guldan in the first week and that content is supposed to last several months.

    I can sit here and do my "trash-tier" content with ilvl 907 without having to worry about dailies/wqs/mats etc. just fine - and that's cool.
    I could also go hardcore on Mythic+ whenever I want and that's cool too. It'll only become a problem if you make it one.
    The only content I feel inclined to do is 1 Mythic+15 a week, that's pretty much it and that's also kinda cool because I don't really *have* to do a Mythic raid to keep up with items.
    Last edited by mmoc96d9238e4b; 2017-02-21 at 12:45 PM.

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