The poor state of Unholy

[Deleted]

If you think unholy is bad?? Play marksman hunter. Anyone with a Item level 20 points or less can out dps a hunter atm. If your IL is say 890 (Hunter) and any other spec in the game is (860 ish 870) they will almost always out dps you. 7.1.5 gutted the MM hunter. I would trade in my Bow any day for a 2hander and a abomination.

If you're getting outdpsed by people 20 ilvls lower than you that's a l2p issue on your part.

MM is a good 10% ahead of Unholy.

[Piz813]

looking forward to doing a few Heroic pugs as UH to see whats up in person today before raid. Some negative Nancy's already cried the buffs won't help. I need to see in person, not what a program says...
Frost is kinda played out and boring. I think I need Zombies back in my life!

[RuneDK]

Yeah well, fuck people who rerolled Unholy DK / started WoW playing Unholy DK / like Unholy more than Frost, ye?
I always hated the "your class / spec was strong in the past for X raidtiers so it being trash is justice!" argument.

And I know you (twice) said that you hope them to be competitive, but if you gonna speak your bit, so will I...

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So basically I should spam deathcoil until I have SotW, then spam CS?

Yes, I've never been happier to see unholy in the shitter. Not because I want it to be, but because of the asshole responses from the Unholy DKs when Frost DKs were in a shit spot at the beginning of the expansion. got a lot of too bads, or deal with it posts....so my post to you...deal with it.

INFRACTION

So where were the infractions for the people shitting all over frost and being petty at the beginning of the expansion?

[hasslehoof]

Yes, I've never been happier to see unholy in the shitter. Not because I want it to be, but because of the asshole responses from the Unholy DKs when Frost DKs were in a shit spot at the beginning of the expansion. got a lot of too bads, or deal with it posts....so my post to you...deal with it.

this is so petty that it's hilarious.

[RuneDK]

Problem is that before in order to reroll you needed to adjust your gear and press a button to change talents.
Now you need to farm the freaking 54 traits again, hope for the drop of artifacts that you need (while the chance is lower, since you already have some).

I mean during WotLK i've played frost dw, i've played blood dps, i've played UH 2h, hell i've played uh dw at some point. But switching specs was not a big deal.
Now it is.

Don't forget Legendaries. While frost w/o them is performing well enough...not all specs are. The biggest gripe I have with this expansion is youre locked into a spec now...Not a character/class. They truly need to adjust the drop rate even more and have them basically raining on us to alleviate that problem.

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this is so petty that it's hilarious.

Oh i dont even care, I dont main a DK anymore...simply because the mobility....but im starting to play him a little more instead of my mage cause ranged sucks.

[Piz813]

Yes, I've never been happier to see unholy in the shitter. Not because I want it to be, but because of the asshole responses from the Unholy DKs when Frost DKs were in a shit spot at the beginning of the expansion. got a lot of too bads, or deal with it posts....so my post to you...deal with it.

Valid point. We got such sparky nasty responses as frost at launch and pre 7.1

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Yes, I've never been happier to see unholy in the shitter. Not because I want it to be, but because of the asshole responses from the Unholy DKs when Frost DKs were in a shit spot at the beginning of the expansion. got a lot of too bads, or deal with it posts....so my post to you...deal with it.

Valid point. We got such sparky nasty responses as frost at launch and pre 7.1

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Snarky
Stupid phone

[Slim1256]

Valid point. We got such sparky nasty responses as frost at launch and pre 7.1

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Valid point. We got such sparky nasty responses as frost at launch and pre 7.1

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Snarky
Stupid phone

It's stupid stuff like this that gives both MMO-C and the DK community in general such a bad rap.

Keep on keepin' on, classy people.

[Maxweii]

Guide is updated with the changes for today. It's a sizeable buff with and without bracers.

[Fraisdegout]

Here's what I would change for unholy (pvp only as I don't really care about pve :P ):

- Take Death Coil off the gcd
- Remove current Soul reaper, bring old soul reaper back
- Buff Apocalypse by 30-50%, burst all 6 wounds instead of 4.

This to me would bring balance back to the class, and take some of the awkwardness and clunkiness away.

[boombeef]

https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17615101490#1 buffs??


Virulent Plague damage over time effect has been increased by 67%. Damage unchanged in PvP.
Summon Gargoyle: Gargoyle Strike damage has been increased by 50%. Damage unchanged in PvP.
Dark Arbiter: Val'kyr Strike damage has been increased by 16%. Damage unchanged in PvP.

Well that extra AP has somewhere to go now for me. Must test.

[Mortaleques]

Guide is updated with the changes for today. It's a sizeable buff with and without bracers.

Any initial thoughts on how large of a buff and how Unholy will compare to Frost? Thanks in advance

[Deleted]

Here's what I would change for unholy (pvp only as I don't really care about pve :P ):

- Take Death Coil off the gcd
- Remove current Soul reaper, bring old soul reaper back
- Buff Apocalypse by 30-50%, burst all 6 wounds instead of 4.

This to me would bring balance back to the class, and take some of the awkwardness and clunkiness away.

AAaaaannd another person that snores coke for breakfast, dude UH is more than fine in pvp...

[Stacie]

Please be polite to each other and watch the language!

[Deleted]

Well I've been switching from Unholy to Frost this entire patch and with the current buffs I'll be switching back to unholy for tonight's raid to test out these buffs on fights longer than 3 minutes (namely Star Augur and Krosus). As a side note, I now have frost to 54 traits, did a BRH 16 in time for 3 chests, received Consort's Cold Core to now replace my 915 legs, with Prydaz still in the pool of legendary items....fml. Frost is 3 months away from being optimal now thanks to RNG.

So equipped with the Unholy Belt, Sephuz and 4 set, I simmed around 620K patchwerk at ilevel 904. This was before the announced buffs. Crit/Haste/Mastery/Vers - 16/16/78/7 (%)

The latest build on Raidbots, I now sim around 667k single target. Looking promising. On a side note my frost spec with sephuz and consort leggings sims at around 630k single target - which goes to show that Unholy and Frost are quite similar before UH buffs...if only I knew about Valk and EF before hand.

Valk show's as being third highest on damage looking at my stats during an EN heroic run today (very short fights though...around 2.5 mins average) and VP is by far the highest on cleave fights.

My thoughts on Valk and the buff to it's damage is promising for two main reasons...firstly it's way more GCD efficient than Garg and SR combined. Looking at my old logs on a similar fight (same gear virtually and same artifact trait level 54) garg and soul reaper combined did 4.8 million (not accounting for the haste buff SR gives...which I can't calculate in terms of damage value). Valk with 2 casts in the same time frame (thanks to Convergence of Fate trinket that I have) did nearly 12 million damage. Pretty sizeable!

Secondly SR is clunky...there are times when you are resourced cap there are times when ideally you should wait for DT to come off CD before you cast SR and CSx3 and there are times when there are no runes available for CSx3, but you've already cast SR because you're in that zone....very annoying.
With DA...you cast it (ideally at high RP and low wounds on the target) hope for a few Deathcoil procs and ramp up the power of your DA before she disappears into the ether. With CoF it's also nice to have a high burst of damage in a short window and like I said in a short 2.5 minute fight I was able to cast it twice.

[dmchellfire]

So equipped with the Unholy Belt, Sephuz and 4 set, I simmed around 620K patchwerk at ilevel 904. This was before the announced buffs. Crit/Haste/Mastery/Vers - 16/16/78/7 (%)

The latest build on Raidbots, I now sim around 667k single target. Looking promising. On a side note my frost spec with sephuz and consort leggings sims at around 630k single target - which goes to show that Unholy and Frost are quite similar before UH buffs...if only I knew about Valk and EF before hand.

Valk show's as being third highest on damage looking at my stats during an EN heroic run today (very short fights though...around 2.5 mins average) and VP is by far the highest on cleave fights.

That is very a very decent simcraft result, what talens are you using overall in addition to DA?

I am at ilvl 900 with 4-piece currently with 19% crit, 24% Haste, 83% Mastery, and 6% Versa, and not simming close to those numbers.

Trinkets are unstable arcanocrystal @ 865, and DoS at 895, and Draughr+Uvanimor as legendaries

Talents are Bursting Sores, PP, CS, IC and SR

[bubbadubba]

Don't forget Legendaries. While frost w/o them is performing well enough...not all specs are. The biggest gripe I have with this expansion is youre locked into a spec now...Not a character/class. They truly need to adjust the drop rate even more and have them basically raining on us to alleviate that problem.

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Oh i dont even care, I dont main a DK anymore...simply because the mobility....but im starting to play him a little more instead of my mage cause ranged sucks.

Frost Legendaries do matter now with the breath and set bonus.

Ring-Almost mandatory to get the most out of breath

Helm- Is almost mandatory

Belt- Alternative to the ring but worse due to RNG

Bracers- Alternative to the helm

If you have the ring with helm or bracers combo then you are doing crazy numbers.

The belt you may have crazy numbers one fight and another your dps is mediocre.

So Basically Legendaries do matter for frost at this moment, I would say the Ring/helm or bracers combo is more important then Unholy bracers.

[Fraisdegout]

AAaaaannd another person that snores coke for breakfast, dude UH is more than fine in pvp...

LOL, that was actually pretty funny. Hey listen dude, I'm not saying the spec is not fine in pvp, I'm just saying I hate wasting a cgd on a death coil (or rez pet for that matter), and I think it adds to the overall clunkiness of unholy. As for the rest, I truly believe that old soul reaper gave a lot of charm to DKs in general, it was a DK style execute that I miss and thought made this class really special. As for the apoc buff, it was simply added to make up for the loss of the existing soul reaper, being our hardest hitting ability at the moment, which is pretty much our only source of burst.

No need to get all riled up, I'm just making a suggestion based on my pvp experience.

Cheers

[Deleted]

That is very a very decent simcraft result, what talens are you using overall in addition to DA?

I am at ilvl 900 with 4-piece currently with 19% crit, 24% Haste, 83% Mastery, and 6% Versa, and not simming close to those numbers.

Trinkets are unstable arcanocrystal @ 865, and DoS at 895, and Draughr+Uvanimor as legendaries

Talents are Bursting Sores, PP, CS, IC and SR

My talents are EF (instead of BS), PP, CS, Necrosis and DA.

My trinkets are a 900 Foci and a 890 CoF with a socket. Weapon is 914. Relics are Plaguebearer, Unholy Endurance and Deadliest Coil.

Just did Guarm today...CS did the most damage(23%)...followed by DA (3 casts 17 mill damage or 15%) and VP being third (13%). Hit 667k dps over 3 minutes.

Buffs are fantastic. I cast DA when above 60 RP and weave DC and CS with priority with DC since DA is up. No idea with sudden doom procs account for DA's damage modifier...it shouldn't do. If this is the case they made need to change the way DA empowerment works...unless we're supposed to deathstrike during DA?

On a side note...I chime with the person who says Frost DK's are legendary dependant. At 54 traits on ST during mythic + I was smashed by a frost DK who had trinket and the bracers. Everything he had hit so much more on average. Frost can do ok with high ilevel, the right trinkets but it absolutely needs 2 good legendary's to do well.

In regards to the Draught of Souls...I have received this 3 times...twice on normal and once on heroic. I've given them to warriors in my guild who do insane damage with them. Before and after the buffs...the Draught has always been a dps loss for me. Sims could be wrong though.

[dmchellfire]

My talents are EF (instead of BS), PP, CS, Necrosis and DA.

My trinkets are a 900 Foci and a 890 CoF with a socket. Weapon is 914. Relics are Plaguebearer, Unholy Endurance and Deadliest Coil.

Just did Guarm today...CS did the most damage(23%)...followed by DA (3 casts 17 mill damage or 15%) and VP being third (13%). Hit 667k dps over 3 minutes.

Buffs are fantastic. I cast DA when above 60 RP and weave DC and CS with priority with DC since DA is up. No idea with sudden doom procs account for DA's damage modifier...it shouldn't do. If this is the case they made need to change the way DA empowerment works...unless we're supposed to deathstrike during DA?

On a side note...I chime with the person who says Frost DK's are legendary dependant. At 54 traits on ST during mythic + I was smashed by a frost DK who had trinket and the bracers. Everything he had hit so much more on average. Frost can do ok with high ilevel, the right trinkets but it absolutely needs 2 good legendary's to do well.

Ah, thats the part that I was missing, so you are running CoF, makes sense for DA to be that high for ST. Are you using Foci by choice, or because you haven't had a DoS drop?

[Deleted]

Ah, thats the part that I was missing, so you are running CoF, makes sense for DA to be that high for ST. Are you using Foci by choice, or because you haven't had a DoS drop?

Just edited my previous post. Yeah I've had it drop and gave it to a warrior friend - where I knew it was a guaranteed upgrade for him. I've simmed Foci (900), Arcano (860 with socket), CoF (with socket), DoS(895), Urn (885) and the highest combo has been the Foci with CoF...with DA/SR (Necrosis as the go to ST talent). I may try DoS if it ever drops again...but I won't be rolling on it anytime soon unless there is at least a 5% gain using it...which I seriously doubt, I could be wrong however. I would probs swap out Foci for a 900 Urn or 900 Hunger of the pack or a crit/mastery stat stick.