Blizzard have effectively gotten rid of flying

[Effenz]

Thing is, things changed again since that interview likley due to the sheer number of complaints of flying being removed and fly was re-added but as it is now, so we have a compromise.

I can understand his pov to a degree and agree with it, just does not work personally for me, I hate questing and levelling with a passion, it literally does nothing for me, just want to get to the level cap and enjoy the content there.

Also I have friends who have been collecting mount for 12 years and have nearly 300 ... kinda pointless to have 3/4 of them usless ie there flying mounts.

I have more mounts than that and I'm fine with being grounded

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

Anti-flyers are disgusting degenerates.

[Effenz]

Anti-flyers are disgusting degenerates.

Flybabies are disgusting degenerates.
Flybabies are whiny brats.
Flybabies think they do, but they don't.
Flybabies are stupid individuals because they don't realize that all of the crying they are doing is accomplishing naught.

[Zenfoldor]

Flying has to have a point besides "I hate walking."

I've yet to hear any argument that validates flying as an improvement to gameplay. Flying is basically, get your mount, bust a nut flying around a bit, and then quit logging on the game. Similar to a cheatcode that unlocks Godmode, flying is nothing but a temporary novelty that eliminates a lot of content in the actual game for a large segment of people. It's a convenience hack.

Because of that, I would prefer flying to only happen in content that is no longer relevant or only semi-relevant.

It is harder to develop meaningful content around flying. It really must be designed from the ground up for this to be the case. Floating islands and many inaccessible areas that require exploration may do it, but that is for another expansion. They could make flying more integrated and we could have it during current content, but as it stands, no it is just a game genie code that people great accustomed to. It's harder to take something away than to introduce it, because your minds have a hard time downgrading back to walking.

[-Joker-]

So why so much disdain on conversation on the topic? You're pretty much here to say 'accept it or get out, stop talking because your opinion doesn't matter. Blizzard says so'. I don't understand that mentality. If the game can be better, wouldn't you speak out for improvement? The only thing I see is you don't personally think it adds anything, so you personally don't feel assed to have to defend it. But I don't understand why you are trying so hard to silence others on the matter.

"they need to get over it, or move on" is what you tell people when you're sick of seeing their message, so maybe this is less about the value of flight and more about the fatigue of seeing this topic in the forums. I understand that this prolonged debate isn't helping the cause, but that's why I think it's important to focus on the core issues rather than blanket it on what we all think people need to do.

Blizzard does listen. If they didn't, we'd have Garrisons 2.0 without change and fewer dungeons because reasons.

I have no disdain for the game. I'm a bit annoyed at the changes to my Guardian Druid, but aside from that, no real concerns. There is a difference between voicing your opinion for them to hear, and beating a dead horse. When it comes to the subject of flight, I would almost assuredly win a bet claiming that Blizz considers this topic:



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Anti-flyers are disgusting degenerates.

No such thing as an anti-flier. We all use our flying mounts when available. There are, however, people who can accept the game for what it is and enjoy it just the same.

[Kazgrel]

Not a moderator here but based on this last page, I'd say this particular rendition of the "flying debate" has run its course...

[-Joker-]

If that was the case, why would 13k out of my 18k posts be in off-topic, which isn't about the game at all? Feel free to look through my posts if you like, if you think my posts are raging about a game I no longer play.

Let me tell you something about quitting. People who are angry about the game? They are the ones that are still emotionally attached to it. Or addicted. Usually both. They're not the ones quitting. When you quit, it's because you no longer care. Blizzard has been making questionable design decisions since Cataclysm.

You know what game I played, where game designers' decisions made complete logical sense from a gameplay standpoint? Rift. I never once scratched my head and said, "why would they do x, y, or z?" while playing that game.

If I decide to come back to gaming, that's the game I'd go back to. Solid game with solid design decisions.

and yet here you are... 2 years later... still complaining about a game you no longer play. There's a song that comes to mind:



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Not a moderator here but based on this last page, I'd say this particular rendition of the "flying debate" has run its course...

There was once a 2250 page thread that had every page looking the same. This thread too will eventually lose steam when the same 4 people are done being upset by the lack of flight.

[Celista]

and yet here you are... 2 years later... still complaining about a game you no longer play. There's a song that comes to mind:

Girl please. If I see a thread on a Gen Discussion topic on the front page I'll click on it occasionally on my way to OT. Stop making drama where there is none.

[Kazgrel]

and yet here you are... 2 years later... still complaining about a game you no longer play. There's a song that comes to mind:



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There was once a 2250 page thread that had every page looking the same. This thread too will eventually lose steam when the same 4 people are done being upset by the lack of flight.

Oh, I would know. I was there.

The other person you're quoting and replying to over their post count...what difference does that make? Half my posts are on this General board but there's no way to see individuals posting trends over the years. Majority of mine here the past couple years have been on the FF14 and GW2 boards.

With these threads, I find it best to just let people be, no matter how much I agree or disagree. This whole debate attracts a ridiculous amount of emotion and/or trolling.

[Deleted]

wow this topic again?
thought all those "qq i quit w/o flying qq" had quit by now...seems like theyre still stuck on some terrain xD

just quit and be done with it already, its good that flying is a qol luxury coming late in expansions. if you dont feel that way, you will have to accept that youre a minority

[SirCowdog]

Hey Mr. Cowdog, we had many a debate/discussion in the, now closed, flying thread. How do you feel about the current implementation?

Let me clarify some points. I know one thing you and I talked about was implementing flying in an interesting way. While the class mounts lend itself to this a bit it's a more than a little underwhelming that what you and I had discussed in the past. That being said, it's more than what we got for warlords. Also that the flying is coming out in under a year, that is pretty big deal since that means, HOPEFULLY there will be plenty of point in flying since it seems as we will get a steady stream of content to use it on. This will be, hopefully, a huge improvement over warlords. While I didn't feel the sting of the warlords flying implementation as distinctly as most I can't argue that this is better.

A lot REALLY depends on how much content is going to be available for using flying mounts on after the unlock can be completed. Using the order hall as a method of unlocking flying still really doesn't matter in light of the fact that Pathfinder is still requiring virtually all content to be completed. It still leaves nothing to use flying on. Until and unless we see NEW content that allows flying, it's practically no different from WoD flying.

Regardless, I've spoken at some length about how making flying a switch that's turned off for half the expansion then turned on for the other half, is still a bad implementation. While it's off makes the game annoying and tedious to players who like it, and while it's on it irritates and annoys players who wanted the grounded experience. All blizzard is really accomplishing with this implementation is to shift the irritation from one group of players to another when what they should be doing is using a better, more inclusive design from the beginning.

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Thing is, things changed again since that interview likley due to the sheer number of complaints of flying being removed and fly was re-added but as it is now, so we have a compromise.

I can understand his pov to a degree and agree with it, just does not work personally for me, I hate questing and levelling with a passion, it literally does nothing for me, just want to get to the level cap and enjoy the content there.

Not to mention that the situation described in that interview is woefully oversimplistic. As has been pointed out countless times, if the intent is the get players to clear an entire camp instead of just dropping in and killing the boss, then the quest should probably either include the guards as part of the quest objective, or maybe the boss shouldn't be standing outside in an insanely exposed position in the first place.

And then there's the question of what, if anything, are the trash mob guards actually adding to the experience. In the case of M+ runs, trash mobs are required to be killed in a certain amount because of the timer. The different modifiers on the dungeon increase the difficulty of that task, and change the actual gameplay depending on what they are, giving the trash relevance and adding to the challenge. But trash in the open world? They have no such relevance, and are literally ignored most of the time unless they happen to daze and dismount you, or are the direct objective of a quest. And now with the existence of the barding buff they might as well not even exist otherwise.

People just like to blame flying for how it somehow breaks the open world because it lets them ignore all the other flaws.

[Thimagryn]

There is a difference between voicing your opinion for them to hear, and beating a dead horse

Consider that the pro-fliers are being provoked into responding. It really messes with the issues when you say 'well I'm okay with voicing opinions but you're beating a dead horse' when you're actively provoking responses out of those defending that message.

Remember how the last thread died? As soon as 'anti-fliers' stopped prodding the subject with a stick, the thread went away.

These new threads are started by new people who weren't in the original flying megathread discussions. Of course, they eventually devolve into the same tired conversation, but really its only lasting value is how willing each side is to provoke the other. You won't stop people beating the dead horse by telling them they're doing it wrong.

[kaid]

They really have. By only enabling it when it doesn't matter anymore.

7.2 will enable flying, but it will be done after people have spent months on the Broken Isles doing their quests while not flying. After we unlock it, that will probably be it in terms of content, before they release the Argus patch. At that point we won't need to fly on the Broken Isles, because we'll be on Argus, which will probably be not flyable either.

It's just like with WoD, where we were only able to fly once nobody needed to anymore anyway. Because the expansion was over. When the flying patch came out, I had 2 days of gametime left. And I didn't renew my sub at that point and went on a 1-year break, because the expansion was over anyway.

This will be the standard now. Flying is gone.

Honestly with the flight masters whistle I can't say I really missed flying in this expansion at all. Easy way back to a centrally located hub with dal hearth stone and flight masters whistle to get you back to a flight point after doing some quests makes the lack of controlled flight pretty much a non issue this go around.

[HordeFanboy]

One of the biggest failures in wod/legion. Legion is basically wod 2.0. Without flying unlock on max lvl ( flying we had in mop) this game gonna be trash.

[-Joker-]

Girl please. If I see a thread on a Gen Discussion topic on the front page I'll click on it occasionally on my way to OT. Stop making drama where there is none.

I recall you making a point of illustrating your female standing. Allow me to illustrate my male standing Not really creating drama. Just trying to figure out why someone willingly comes to a fan site to complain about a game they stopped playing 2 years ago. While it is not my intention to insult anyone, just seems a bit stalker-ish.

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Oh, I would know. I was there.

The other person you're quoting and replying to over their post count...what difference does that make? Half my posts are on this General board but there's no way to see individuals posting trends over the years. Majority of mine here the past couple years have been on the FF14 and GW2 boards.

With these threads, I find it best to just let people be, no matter how much I agree or disagree. This whole debate attracts a ridiculous amount of emotion and/or trolling.

My entire point was to show someone who spend a LOT of time on a fan site just to bash a game they no longer play

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Consider that the pro-fliers are being provoked into responding. It really messes with the issues when you say 'well I'm okay with voicing opinions but you're beating a dead horse' when you're actively provoking responses out of those defending that message.

Remember how the last thread died? As soon as 'anti-fliers' stopped prodding the subject with a stick, the thread went away.

These new threads are started by new people who weren't in the original flying megathread discussions. Of course, they eventually devolve into the same tired conversation, but really its only lasting value is how willing each side is to provoke the other. You won't stop people beating the dead horse by telling them they're doing it wrong.

The "pro-fliers" are the ones who keep making these ridiculous threads. If they'd just sit down, shut up, and wait for 7.2, they might not feel so persecuted. Something tells me they bring it on themselves.

[Thimagryn]

The "pro-fliers" are the ones who keep making these ridiculous threads. If they'd just sit down, shut up, and wait for 7.2, they might not feel so persecuted. Something tells me they bring it on themselves.

It's always different people starting a different thread. Might be difficult to comprehend, but flying is an issue that affects a wide variety of people, not just the 5 recurring profliers in the forum.

[Zoneseek]

Remember how the last thread died? As soon as 'anti-fliers' stopped prodding the subject with a stick, the thread went away.

How are anti-fliers even a thing? Regardless of flying being in the game or not, nobody is forcing anyone to stop using their ground mounts if that's how they want to consume wow content.

[Thimagryn]

How are anti-fliers even a thing? Regardless of flying being in the game or not, nobody is forcing anyone to stop using their ground mounts if that's how they want to consume wow content.

Tangible to the game? There's no such thing as an anti-flyer. Truth is, even those who hate flying the most will use them if and when they're added to the game, because that's the status quo.

What I'm more specifically referring to are the people who are being confrontational or provocative for the sake of it, while under the premise that flying is bad (for the game). These are the 'anti-fliers' that I'm referring to.

[-Joker-]

It's always different people starting a different thread. Might be difficult to comprehend, but flying is an issue that affects a wide variety of people, not just the 5 recurring profliers in the forum.

So you feel it is acceptable to have the same circular arguments as long as someone new starts the thread each time? I remember asking folks when they thought we would get the flight portion of the pathfinder achievement. 40% were ok with patch 7.2 (a midpoint) and another 40% didn't care if it was the last patch, or if it came at all. 2% actually wanted it with 7.1.

Now, is this an accurate sample? Not really. Less than 400 people on the site voted. It is relative and casually indicative of the ratio of players who are dying without flight to players who could care less about flight? I think so. Of 7M players, there is a TINY vocal minority for or against its arrival. That's because the bulk of the playerbase just plays the game and doesn't waste time bitching about things outside of their control. At some point these people just need to breathe, and let reality set in. Just have to complete a small meta and off they go into the wild blue yonder:



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What I'm more specifically referring to are the people who are being confrontational or provocative for the sake of it, while under the premise that flying is bad (for the game). These are the 'anti-fliers' that I'm referring to.

I agree that people who come in just to insult the fliers is a bit much. But there are those of us who feel the need to remind them they are getting flight with 7.2, and this constant complaining is doing no one any good. But thankfully, they have a white knight or two who will swing in to their rescue and respond to every post that doesn't endorse immediate flight without the meta.

[Thimagryn]

I agree that people who come in just to insult the fliers is a bit much. But there are those of us who feel the need to remind them they are getting flight with 7.2, and this constant complaining is doing no one any good. But thankfully, they have a white knight or two who will swing in to their rescue and respond to every post that doesn't endorse immediate flight without the meta.

Which is part of the issue, isn't it?

These threads wouldn't have to be here if flight was here pre 7.2. I tend to believe that we could have had this at 7.1.X and little would have suffered for it. 7.2 is still months away, and the world content isn't getting any fresher. Neither are these threads.

That's because the bulk of the playerbase just plays the game and doesn't waste time bitching about things outside of their control.

Look around you. You're on MMO-C. What aren't people bitching about here? I hate to burst your 'everyone is playing the game and happy' world, but this isn't Trade Chat.

Just to time stamp things, these are the top 5 posts (not including this one) right now in Gen Disc.

- It's fucking stupid LFR raiders have to wait this long

- What makes WF/TF a problem for people?

- What is the worst feature of Legion?

- Question Why did you unsub?

- Where bad luck protection might fail