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  1. #341
    Foxnews is giving you people biased information, be carefull. Read these articles i linked too. You should always verify information and read it from multiple sources:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.df898d4542a0
    http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/21/eu...ockholm-riots/
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/...trump-comments

    Furthermore... is there anybody who finds it "strange" that 2 days after Trumps comment about Sweden something happens there? It makes one wonder...
    "The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference. The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference. And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference."

    Elie Wiesel (1928 – 2016)

  2. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrianth View Post
    Nope, I'll pass thanks. I'll risk an infraction.
    Dude its mmo-c. There NOTHING to risk.

    If they censure you, so what =D Its only mmo-c.

  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by Shanknasty View Post
    Why would you try and source shame by linking 3 news sources who have been caught reporting fake news and showing clear bias?
    And Foxnews didn't?
    "The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference. The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference. And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference."

    Elie Wiesel (1928 – 2016)

  4. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by Adolecent View Post
    Furthermore... is there anybody who finds it "strange" that 2 days after Trumps comment about Sweden something happens there? It makes one wonder...
    Seeing as how the riots erupted as a response to the police arresting a person wanted due to criminal activity, it's rather unlikely that someone manages to build very far on a conspiracy theory of any kind. Also shows a bit about the actual situation, when a minor riot erupts as a response to the police doing what it's there to do...

  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by Adolecent View Post
    Foxnews is giving you people biased information, be carefull. Read these articles i linked too. You should always verify information and read it from multiple sources:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.df898d4542a0
    http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/21/eu...ockholm-riots/
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/...trump-comments

    Furthermore... is there anybody who finds it "strange" that 2 days after Trumps comment about Sweden something happens there? It makes one wonder...
    Multiple source. That's the way to go.

    Also... Obviously not surprise someone used that opportunity to create a mess.

  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by ipaq View Post
    Multiple source. That's the way to go.

    Also... Obviously not surprise someone used that opportunity to create a mess.
    Who exactly "used the opportunity" then? Swedish police that decided to do its job, and arrest a wanted individual? Or the people that started the riot, simply as a response to said criminal being arrested? I find it a tad strange if the latter, who obviosuly is to blame here, had anything whatsoever to gain from "using the opportunity" - rather, it seems like doing so would rather harm their own interests, if anything. Doubt they would want the situation to become more widely known after all, likely a bigger risk of someone actually doing something meaningful to stop it then...

  7. #347
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    B-but sweden is fine guise!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adolecent View Post
    Furthermore... is there anybody who finds it "strange" that 2 days after Trumps comment about Sweden something happens there? It makes one wonder...
    considering their crime wave has been happening for Months, it isn't really that much of a strange thing.

  8. #348
    *waves hand* there is nothing happening in Sweden

  9. #349
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Caelia View Post
    Pretty sure most people in Sweden that hasn't been sleeping all day knows about this, I heard about it last night as it was happening.
    I asked around, roughly a fith of people knew about it.

    Don't make too many assumptions.

  10. #350
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by xChurch View Post
    So was it just the one? The title says "Riots", but it seems to only mention on incident.
    It counts as riot because they went out to burn cars, rob a convenience store and attack the police.

    It's not the first time it happens in Rinkeby, not the first time at all. In fact, I'd go so far as to call it frequent occurances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kcin14 View Post
    *waves hand* there is nothing happening in Sweden
    Trump refered to something that didn't happen. He still lied. Then he said it was about a documentary piece, so really, nothing did happen in regards to what he said.

    This is an entirely separate event days after.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tijuana View Post
    I'm actually having a hard time following your point here. However, I would add that the US does not accept any temporary refugees. Ever. We only take those who wish to immigrate. Perhaps that is why our standards are higher. /shrug
    Did my last post hit so hard you decided to give up or what?

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by Creamy Flames View Post
    It counts as riot because they went out to burn cars, rob a convenience store and attack the police.

    It's not the first time it happens in Rinkeby, not the first time at all. In fact, I'd go so far as to call it frequent occurances.

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    Trump refered to something that didn't happen. He still lied. Then he said it was about a documentary piece, so really, nothing did happen in regards to what he said.

    This is an entirely separate event days after.

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    Did my last post hit so hard you decided to give up or what?
    I don't see what there is to give up. You are triggered over people daring to report the news in your nation. I told you were foolish. We are done, right?

  12. #352
    Fluffy Kitten xChurch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creamy Flames View Post
    It counts as riot because they went out to burn cars, rob a convenience store and attack the police.

    It's not the first time it happens in Rinkeby, not the first time at all. In fact, I'd go so far as to call it frequent occurances.
    How frequent exactly? I've heard bad things here and there but how bad is it really? Since the media likes to overblow immigrant or terrorism type stories I tend to take them with a big pinch of salt. Curious what someone who lives there thinks, especially if the implication was that Trump was actually right about something!

  13. #353
    Deleted
    Here, have google translating the relevants bits.

    http://www.bra.se/bra/nytt-fran-bra/...statistik.html
    Brott mot person
    Under 2016 anmäldes drygt 275 000 brott mot person (3–7 kap. brottsbalken), vilket är 17 500 (+7 procent) fler brott än 2015. Misshandelsbrotten ökade med 4 procent till 88 000 brott. Misshandel mot man över 18 år ökade med 1 procent, och misshandel mot barn 0–17 år ökade med 14 procent. Antalet anmälda misshandelsbrott mot kvinna över 18 år var i princip oförändrat från föregående år.
    Anmälda brott om grov kvinnofridskränkning ökade med 2 procent till 1 870 anmälda brott under 2016, och grov fridskränkning ökade med 11 procent till 1 680 anmälda brott.
    Antalet anmälda våldtäkter ökade med 13 procent till 6 560 brott, medan anmälda brott om sexuellt tvång och utnyttjande minskade med 1 procent till 1 240. Antalet anmälda brott om sexuellt ofredande ökade med 20 procent till 10 500 brott. • Anmälda olaga hot ökade med 5 procent till 54 200 brott medan anmälda ofredanden minskade med 2 procent till 55 400 brott.

  14. #354
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by xChurch View Post
    How frequent exactly? I've heard bad things here and there but how bad is it really? Since the media likes to overblow immigrant or terrorism type stories I tend to take them with a big pinch of salt. Curious what someone who lives there thinks, especially if the implication was that Trump was actually right about something!
    Can't quite remember them all but at least once a year since 2012.
    So it's got nothing to do with the current immigration wave. This has happened before and will happen again regardless.

    This is an area where, no joke, emergency services are afraid to go and some times will refuse to go. Ambulances and firemen get attacked, frequently. I could find some articles but they'd all be in Swedish.
    There are, without a doubt, areas in which there is a lot of trouble. But it's been so for many years. Hasn't been like that for forever though, maybe the last 10 years or so. I'm 30 myself so I've been around.
    You could compare some of these areas to areas in the US where you've got a lot of gangs and shit. You wouldn't go into an area controlled by the Bloods or some shit like that, would you? Because if we define "no go" zones by that, the US certainly has more of them. The difference is that we didn't always have them.

    No, Trump was wrong because he was talking about terrorism as I understand it, and nothing he implied was right at the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niibek View Post
    Here, have google translating the relevants bits.

    http://www.bra.se/bra/nytt-fran-bra/...statistik.html
    Google would destroy all that legal jargon and make it completely unintelligible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tijuana View Post
    I don't see what there is to give up. You are triggered over people daring to report the news in your nation. I told you were foolish. We are done, right?
    Yeah I got you pretty good, I can tell. Or did you actually miss my last post to you? Because now you've completely changed argument to "lol triggered". Anyway, it's alright, I'll leave you alone.

  15. #355
    Fluffy Kitten xChurch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creamy Flames View Post
    Can't quite remember them all but at least once a year since 2012.
    So it's got nothing to do with the current immigration wave. This has happened before and will happen again regardless.

    This is an area where, no joke, emergency services are afraid to go and some times will refuse to go. Ambulances and firemen get attacked, frequently. I could find some articles but they'd all be in Swedish.
    There are, without a doubt, areas in which there is a lot of trouble. But it's been so for many years. Hasn't been like that for forever though, maybe the last 10 years or so. I'm 30 myself so I've been around.
    You could compare some of these areas to areas in the US where you've got a lot of gangs and shit. You wouldn't go into an area controlled by the Bloods or some shit like that, would you? Because if we define "no go" zones by that, the US certainly has more of them. The difference is that we didn't always have them.

    No, Trump was wrong because he was talking about terrorism as I understand it, and nothing he implied was right at the time.
    So essentially it has it's problems, but it's not specific to current times and isn't really any worse than a lot of other major population centers? And has it just sorta happened naturally, or is there specific causes to it other than just typical socio-economic issues? It is kinda funny that Sweden is a constant target and yet lots of places in America can be vastly more dangerous than probably anywhere in Sweden.

  16. #356
    Quote Originally Posted by Creamy Flames View Post
    Can't quite remember them all but at least once a year since 2012.
    So it's got nothing to do with the current immigration wave. This has happened before and will happen again regardless.

    This is an area where, no joke, emergency services are afraid to go and some times will refuse to go. Ambulances and firemen get attacked, frequently. I could find some articles but they'd all be in Swedish.
    There are, without a doubt, areas in which there is a lot of trouble. But it's been so for many years. Hasn't been like that for forever though, maybe the last 10 years or so. I'm 30 myself so I've been around.
    You could compare some of these areas to areas in the US where you've got a lot of gangs and shit. You wouldn't go into an area controlled by the Bloods or some shit like that, would you? Because if we define "no go" zones by that, the US certainly has more of them. The difference is that we didn't always have them.

    No, Trump was wrong because he was talking about terrorism as I understand it, and nothing he implied was right at the time.

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    Google would destroy all that legal jargon and make it completely unintelligible.

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    Yeah I got you pretty good, I can tell. Or did you actually miss my last post to you? Because now you've completely changed argument to "lol triggered". Anyway, it's alright, I'll leave you alone.
    Hang on, I'll look it up. So needy....

  17. #357
    Quote Originally Posted by Tijuana View Post
    "There is no crime wave. Crime is down." - Baghdad Bob
    Okay. I mean you could look at the facts, or you could swallow a load from Fox News.

    "In general, crime statistics have gone down the last (few) years, and no there is no evidence to suggest that new waves of immigration has lead to increased crime," Selin said.

    Generally, there’s a certain over-representation of people with immigrant background in crime statistics, but that tends to be closely related to high levels of unemployment, poverty, exclusion, low language and other skills, Selin said. "Swedes with these characteristics are also overrepresented in crime statistics," he said.

    If we look specifically at sex offences, which the Fox News segment highlighted, there were 18,100 sex offenses reported to the police in 2015, down 11 percent from 2014, according to the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention.

    The number of rapes reported decreased 12 percent between 2014 and 2015, to 5,920, the agency reported. The council noted that in Sweden, when a single case is reported, every incident associated with the case is also reported as an offense during the same year.

    The amount of reported rape offenses has gone up in the last 10 years (2006-15), which the agency said can be partially attributed to new legislation in 2005 that augmented the types of acts that can be classified as rape.

    "The effect of the statutory change appeared in the statistics such that the number of reported offences in respect of sexual coercion and exploitation declined in the years immediately following the statutory change while the number of reported rapes increased," according to the agency. In 2013, a rape offense was broadened "to include cases where the victim reacts passively."
    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...on-and-sweden/

    Sweden's crime rate has fallen since 2005, official statistics show, even as it has taken in hundreds of thousands of immigrants from war-torn countries like Syria and Iraq.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN15Y0QH

    If a recent influx of immigrants to Sweden has triggered a crime wave, it's news to officials of the Scandinavian country. That hasn't stopped President Trump from making — and repeating — the claim.

    Swedish government data show overall crime rates down slightly in 2015 and 2016 after the nation of 10 million admitted 163,000 asylum seekers, more than any other European country as a share of its population.
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/w...rump/98187090/

    Immigration to Sweden

    Sweden saw a dramatic increase in asylum applicants in 2015, with more than 162,000 people arriving in the country, according to the Swedish Migration Agency. Of those, more than 51,000 were from Syria, with another roughly 42,000 from Afghanistan and 21,000 from Iraq. All told, Sweden has taken in nearly 200,000 refugees and migrants in recent years, more than any other country per capita in Europe, the BBC reported.
    That’s a big number for a country with a population just under 10 million. (By way of reference, a comparable number based on the population of the U.S. would come to about 5.2 million. President Barack Obama set the level of refugees the U.S. would accept in fiscal year 2017 at 110,000 before he left office, but Trump cut that number to no more than 50,000.)
    Crime in Sweden

    While there has been an uptick in some crime categories, government statistics from Sweden do not corroborate the claim of a major crime wave due to immigrants.
    According to the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention (Brå), lethal violence (murder, manslaughter and assault that results in death) totaled 112 victims in 2015. That’s up by 25 (a sizable increase) from 2014, but it’s about the same as the number in 2007, which was 111 victims.
    “In a long-term perspective, ever since the 1990’s when Brå started the measurements, the trend shows that lethal violence is declining,” the website says.
    The group’s latest Swedish Crime survey for 2016 found that 13.3 percent stated that during the course of 2015, they were exposed to offenses that included assault, threats, sexual offenses, robbery, fraud or harassment.
    “This is an increase as compared with the preceding year (in 2014 the percentage was 11.3%), but is approximately the same level as in 2005,” the report states. “When compared with 2014, the increase was greatest for threats, sexual offences, and harassment. The results from coming years will show whether the increase for the most recent year is the beginning of a new trend, or a temporary deviation from an otherwise relatively stable level.”
    There was also a slight increase in the perception of crime, as the percentage of people with “great concern about crime in society” increased from 22 percent in 2015 to 25 percent in 2016. That’s still down from 29 percent in 2006. The survey also found that the percentage of people “anxious about being a victim of an attack or assault has increased from 11 per cent in 2015 to 15 per cent in 2016, which is the same level as in 2006.”
    A Pew Research Center survey in early 2016 also found that 46 percent of Swedes believe “refugees in our country are more to blame for crime than other groups.”
    As for the specific issue of rape, there was a 13 percent one-year increase in the number of reported rapes, which totaled 6,560 in 2016, according to preliminary numbers from the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention. But that total is slightly lower than reported rapes in 2014 and about the same as the number in 2011.
    Over the past decade, the number of reported rapes has increased. The total was 4,208 in 2006, a year after the country passed a law expanding its definition of rape to include cases in which a victim is intoxicated or asleep. The yearly number gradually increased through 2011 and has fluctuated in recent years.
    The issue of rape was heightened with international media attention on an alleged gang rape in January in Sweden by three men, two from Afghanistan, that was shown live on Facebook.
    But some misconceptions and viral falsehoods about rape in Sweden also have circulated in recent years. Canada’s Globe and Mail wrote a May 2016 story about viral rumors linking immigration and refugees to a high rate of rape in the country. “What we’re hearing is a very, very extreme exaggeration based on a few isolated events, and the claim that it’s related to immigration is more or less not true at all,” Jerzy Sarnecki, a criminologist at Stockholm University, told the newspaper.
    What is true is that Sweden has a high rate of reported rape compared with other countries, but that has been the case for several years and isn’t indicative of a less safe environment, the BBC explained in a 2012 article. The rate for reported rape in Sweden was the highest in Europe in 2010 and three times the rate of neighboring Norway, the BBC reported.
    “On the face of it, it would seem Sweden is a much more dangerous place” than other countries, the BBC wrote. But, Klara Selin, a sociologist at the National Council for Crime Prevention, told the news organization that the difference could be attributed to the way Sweden documents rape – if a woman reports being raped multiple times by her husband that’s recorded as multiple rapes, for instance, not just one report – and the culture in the country, which encourages women to report such crimes. “[T]he major explanation is partly that people go to the police more often,” Selin told the BBC, and yet another factor was the broadening of the definition of rape in the 2005 legislation.
    Causation?

    Henrik Selin, head of the Department for Intercultural Dialogue at the Swedish Institute, told us the surge of asylum seekers in 2015 has created challenges for Sweden, but he said reports from right-leaning media about a surge of immigrant crime have been “highly exaggerated.”
    “So many things are being claimed,” Selin said. “If you look at the facts, there is nothing to support the claim that the crime rate took off after the 160,000 came in 2015.”
    Crime has generally been trending down for the last decade, but there was a small uptick last year, he said. While it’s true that immigrants have been over-represented among those committing crimes — particularly in some suburban communities heavily populated by immigrants, he said — the issue of crime and immigration is complex. Upon closer examination, Selin said, researchers have found that the crime is more closely associated with factors like joblessness, poverty and exclusion from society. “It is not clear that immigrants are susceptible to committing such crimes,” he said.
    Nor is it at all true, Selin said, that there are so-called no-go zones where police are afraid to patrol, or where locals have instituted sharia law, as Horowitz claimed. Selin’s refutation was echoed by Felipe Estrada Dörner, a criminology professor at Stockholm University, interviewed by the Washington Post.
    But that is not to say there are not some “challenges in the short term … that we need to deal with,” Selin said.
    Jerzy Sarnecki, a criminology professor at Stockholm University, said that claims about surging violence due to immigration are “lies.”
    “But really good lies always have a little bit of truth in them,” Sarnecki told us in an email. “So also in this case.”
    Sarnecki noted that Sweden has a “very broad legal definition of rape” and that “Swedish women are aware of their rights and have a high propensity to report sexual assaults, and we calculate crimes in a different manner than comparable countries.”
    Sweden has a low rate of lethal violence compared with other countries, he said. But he allowed that there has been an uptick recently.
    “The number of these cases [of lethal violence] have fallen sharply since 1990 but increased slightly in the past two years,” Sarnecki said. “This increase, however, has nothing to do with the recent large refugee wave.”
    “Obviously,” he said, “the large reception of refugees in a short time causes various types of strains in a small country like Sweden, but these problems are exaggerated greatly by populist movements that are ideologically close to Mr. Trump.”
    http://www.factcheck.org/2017/02/tru...swedish-crime/
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by Creamy Flames View Post
    No but that's what you said was the source of your great insight, as if Sweden doesn't know anything about immigration or integration...


    I have not acted superior to you in any way. The only mean thing I have done, is have a different opinion that yours, and refused to back down from it. You on the other hand, have repeatedly called me names, even though I have not done that to you. You are using your own baseless taking of offense, as evidence of my wrong doing. You must be joking, if you think that is a supportable position to take.

    I've been telling you the last several pages...

    If this is you trying to act detached and indifferent it's not being recieved as that. Your choice of words is very poor for someone who wants to act like that.



    Yes, yes you have.





    That first quote is what pissed me off the most and is why I'm calling you ignorant and arrogant. We've had tons of immigration over hundreds of years. And in the modern era, say from the Second World War, we've had much immigration. Especially from the 70's and onward to today.

    And if you can't grasp why the other two quotes are arrogant and ignorant, well, then I can't do anything for you.
    If your argument is that I am abrasive, then all I have to say is yes, I am. And, if you don't like it, you can slowly fuck yourself until sun up. Does that clear it up a bit better? If you are too fragile to hear strong language, maybe the internet is not for you.

    If you are unaware of your entire regions long standing reputation for being racially homogeneous, I can't really explain it to you. Maybe it's a myth. Maybe it's not true anymore. Maybe it was never true. Or, maybe it WAS true, and your government is going to extreme lengths to undo the status quo.

    Nobody can question your diversity now, that is for certain. I just hope it works out for you guys in the end. So far, it seems like not so much. But, that is for you to decide. My only interest in any problems or not problems in your nation, is from the angle of how those lessons can be applied to US policy.

    As an American, who sees rampant nation bashing here every single time I visit, I find it extremely amusing that any European would take such offense, when they are not even being directly criticized.

    Also, you have repeatedly called me names, even though I have not done that to you. I think if you are going to claim the moral high ground, you should consider altering your level of civility.

    Edit: Yeah, I did respond to this already but, I deleted it because the quote thing was not working right, as it still seems to be. I thought you deleted your post, and that was the cause for the weirdness. Therefore, I just assumed you were retracting your uncivil words. My mistake.
    Last edited by Tijuana; 2017-02-21 at 11:08 PM.

  19. #359
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tijuana View Post
    If your argument is that I am abrasive, then all I have to say is yes, I am. And, if you don't like it, you can slowly fuck yourself until sun up. Does that clear it up a bit better? If you are too fragile to hear strong language, maybe the internet is not for you.
    You insult me, then you complain about me calling you ignorant and arrogant.

    If you are unaware of your entire regions long standing reputation for being racially homogeneous, I can't really explain it to you. Maybe it's a myth. Maybe it's not true anymore. Maybe it was never true. Or, maybe it WAS true, and your government is going to extreme lengths to undo the status quo.
    You base your opinion of my country on "reputation", and still you don't know why I call you ignorant. But hey, the reputation of America is that it's obese, gun crazed and hates abortion. Fair, right? I mean it's reputation, the best source of information about countries.

    Nobody can question your diversity now, that is for certain. I just hope it works out for you guys in the end. So far, it seems like not so much. But, that is for you to decide.
    Cute.

    My only interest in any problems or not problems in your nation, is from the angle of how those lessons can be applied to US policy.
    Ah, moving the goalposts? Is this also an admittance of ignorance?

    As an American, who sees rampant nation bashing here every single time I visit, I find it extremely amusing that any European would take such offense, when they are not even being directly criticized.
    You complain about nation bashing as an American and in the same sentance you make a broad, sweeping generalization about me being from the continent of Europe. And still, you wonder why I call you ignorant and arrogant.





    If your argument is that I am abrasive, then all I have to say is yes, I am. And, if you don't like it, you can slowly fuck yourself until sun up. Does that clear it up a bit better? If you are too fragile to hear strong language, maybe the internet is not for you.
    your uncivil words.
    Also, you have repeatedly called me names, even though I have not done that to you. I think if you are going to claim the moral high ground, you should consider altering your level of civility.
    I'm not sure if you can grasp how hillariously hypocritical this is but I'll point it out to you even so. You are a hypocrit. You are in no position to talk to me about civility, facts nor knowledge as you lack all of them and you are a blatant hypocrit.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tijuana View Post
    I never put my nation above yours, or stated anything as being inferior in any way.
    We are a nation of immigrants and you are a nation of Swedes.
    Sorry but, every nation seems non-diverse to us, by comparison. /shrug
    I'm sorry but, as the most diverse nation on earth, I think we have a right to assume we know more about immigration than possibly the least diverse nation on earth.
    And this also makes you a liar.

  20. #360
    This fits well enough and adds to the I told you so


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