A Conservative view of Government.

[Total Crica]

It is not my idea, per se. I, like everyone else, has been conditioned by society, genetics, etc... I just do my best to be mindful of that. But most people agree what is hopeful (Star Trek) versus what is not (Terminator). Or even, a more granular example, The Empire from Star Wars, versus the Rebels.

Skilful just means "better outcome". If one outcome leads us to a nuclear war where everyone dies, vs a Star Trek future where there is little suffering, the more "skillful outcome" is the Star Trek future.

Hopeful messages balance the depressive messages in society. Which is where memetic ideas come in. Star Trek being a memetic virus.

All that distracts from reality, not helps people determine reality.

I never stated people don't need distraction from reality.

I don't know what every individual needs to begin with.

That's a reality that no one admits because they either can't see that reality or they are distracting themselves from reality with "hope" or "non-hope".

[Total Crica]

reality is defined/shaped by us, both individually and as society.

as a society we have the power to change everyday reality for the masses

Yep. Why would they want to help change it for others if the gamble they would have to take to do so includes straying from a path they already know is leading them to life?

[Total Crica]

For people that disagree with that path, they do not have to take it with us.

a large divergence is created of people wanting to take very different paths

Welcome to reality. Enjoy the ride.

(your ideas of what path to take don't guarantee the end result, it will always be a gamble, for everyone)

[Theodarzna]

Can you explain what exactly makes you think it's unsustainable? Based on what I know of the technology and science we are working towards, that seems an odd assumption. Robotics, AI, genetics, 3D printing, vertical farming, fusion power and numerous other technologies are ones that will completely change our species, and do much for our longer term sustainability. It will take awhile sure, but we know it can be done, so why not go for it? Seems preferable to me to persue what can actually promote and ensure our sustainability. The fact it took so many lives to get here, means to me that we owe it to them to advance far enough to provide for all humanity, to make their sacrifice worth something.

When have I advocated violence in the name of progress? I said if it occures during our progress, than at least it means something. That's a farcry from claiming we need violence to progress. I'm talking about scientific progress and technological advancement. Not forcing hegemony or empire on people. You seem to think my advocating for increased unity means I wish to force that on people, which isn't really at all what I'm advocating. I want us to organically grow closer and break down barriers between us. Through things like trade and the internet, we will become increasingly more intertwind and interdependant which will in turn lead to a more peaceful and prosperous Earth, rather than any one single country. It won't happen for generations, but we have a better chance now than ever before to have unity among humanity.

Let me open up with a brief primer on One-Dimensional Man: Studies in the Ideology of Advanced Industrial Society by philosopher Herbert Marcuse. I think you are falling into the trap One Dimensional thought. Via ignoring the negatives associated with modernity such as climate change, ecological depletion, pollution, resource depletion and the warfare and tyranny involved in maintain global hegemonic power and order. You display a kind of optimism I find really hard to have a discussion with because your not even acknowledging the negatives or are simply trying to bracket negatives as simply not worth worrying about because of the lofty optimistic promises you believe "Progress," will bring. This is an example of one dimensional thinking, and is a testament to how thoroughly we've managed to destroy criticism. Rationality and Technology are viewed as going only one way, and that is forward and that these things are always good, always, according to Marcuse. You and I simply cannot have a meaningful dialog because you firmly seem to go for this viewpoint, that only good and wonderful things lay ahead. I must look like a worry wart, or a negative Nancy or something like that. Its going to be hard for us to have a discussion if your unable to grasp at the negatives at all or even recognize them as negatives.

[xChurch]

Let me open up with a brief primer on One-Dimensional Man: Studies in the Ideology of Advanced Industrial Society by philosopher Herbert Marcuse. I think you are falling into the trap One Dimensional thought. Via ignoring the negatives associated with modernity such as climate change, ecological depletion, pollution, resource depletion and the warfare and tyranny involved in maintain global hegemonic power and order. You display a kind of optimism I find really hard to have a discussion with because your not even acknowledging the negatives or are simply trying to bracket negatives as simply not worth worrying about because of the lofty optimistic promises you believe "Progress," will bring. This is an example of one dimensional thinking, and is a testament to how thoroughly we've managed to destroy criticism. Rationality and Technology are viewed as going only one way, and that is forward and that these things are always good, always, according to Marcuse. You and I simply cannot have a meaningful dialog because you firmly seem to go for this viewpoint, that only good and wonderful things lay ahead. I must look like a worry wart, or a negative Nancy or something like that. Its going to be hard for us to have a discussion if your unable to grasp at the negatives at all or even recognize them as negatives.

You just make the assumption I'm ignorant of the negatives. I'm well aware, there are tons and tons of ways it can go horribly wrong, and I accept that risk. I simply think we are strong enough to overcome the obstacles in our way. I'm sure that sounds niavely optmistic, but it seems a better way to think about it to me.

[Theodarzna]

You just make the assumption I'm ignorant of the negatives. I'm well aware, there are tons and tons of ways it can go horribly wrong, and I accept that risk. I simply think we are strong enough to overcome the obstacles in our way. I'm sure that sounds niavely optmistic, but it seems a better way to think about it to me.

I find then this exchange incredibly pedantic and pointless. You seem to believe any sacrifice is worth it, I think we should go in a different direction.

[Wells]

I find then this exchange incredibly pedantic and pointless. You seem to believe any sacrifice is worth it, I think we should go in a different direction.

You were just bitching about strawmen.

[xChurch]

I find then this exchange incredibly pedantic and pointless. You seem to believe any sacrifice is worth it, I think we should go in a different direction.

I can see why you'd think that when you continuously misread what I'm saying. You basically pick out specific things about my posts to argue against then call me one-dimensional because of it. It's really not on me if you're more interested in bloging than actually hearing opposing view points.

[Macaquerie]

The OP's vision for society seems more like something out of a fantasy novel, where each race has its own designated homeland and somehow manage to achieve peace and prosperity despite a complete lack of any trade or exchange of ideas, and where the only source of conflict is whenever any group dares to venture outside of its own territory and interact with the outside world. Now given that this is a mostly a WoW centered website, that really isn't all that surprising, but it is quite silly to think that we should be modeling our own world around it.

[Theodarzna]

The OP's vision for society seems more like something out of a fantasy novel, where each race has its own designated homeland and somehow manage to achieve peace and prosperity despite a complete lack of any trade or exchange of ideas, and where the only source of conflict is whenever any group dares to venture outside of its own territory and interact with the outside world. Now given that this is a mostly a WoW centered website, that really isn't all that surprising, but it is quite silly to think that we should be modeling our own world around it.

I wish you would take the time to quote me when having a lovely time in your game of psycho-analysis. How is the therapist practice doing IRL?

- - - Updated - - -

@Macaquerie actually, I don't even play WoW in any particularly active fashion. As a world I actually dislike WoW, If you want a taste for my main fantastical genre's or games I enjoyed you'd be more served by the Elder Scrolls series, or Conan the Barbarian as a literature and short lived MMO. I also really like the works of HP Lovecraft, as racist as they are.

I do wonder what it must be like to feel that anyone you don't agree with must be mental or have some ulterior motives. I suppose its comforting to believe oneself the only sane and normal person and everyone else is just suffering from a pathology or illness and with proper therapy people will be just like you.

[Macaquerie]

I do wonder what it must be like to feel that anyone you don't agree with must be mental or have some ulterior motives. I suppose its comforting to believe oneself the only sane and normal person and everyone else is just suffering from a pathology or illness and with proper therapy people will be just like you.

It's not anyone I disagree with, it's just you pretty much. The thing is, there is a lot of political discussion on this forum, and most of it centers around the usual topics of economics, human rights, identity politics, the proper role of the state, etc. But for you, apparently none of these issues matter and it is somehow imperative that we MUST return to a primitive and isolated way of life, despite there being no evident benefits for doing so. This thread has gone on for 38 pages and you have yet to explain why your model of society is in any way better than what we have now, so it is curious to me why you would believe in these ideas so strongly.

[Theodarzna]

It's not anyone I disagree with, it's just you pretty much. The thing is, there is a lot of political discussion on this forum, and most of it centers around the usual topics of economics, human rights, identity politics, the proper role of the state, etc. But for you, apparently none of these issues matter and it is somehow imperative that we MUST return to a primitive and isolated way of life, despite there being no evident benefits for doing so. This thread has gone on for 38 pages and you have yet to explain why your model of society is in any way better than what we have now, so it is curious to me why you would believe in these ideas so strongly.

So its weirdness? What should I post about and find interesting? Tell me what you wish to see.

If I may psycho-analyses right back at you. I think for you its frustrating because the typical cultural expectation for any good and upstanding liberal is that a female in a blue state with graduate level education should for all intensive purposes be a good and normal Democrat. That is more problematic for you I'm suspecting. That in-spite of every statistical demographic I fit into, I am not what you would expect. But I'm also not calling you a cuck or wearing a silly red hat either.

I am here to say once and for all, I am not engaged in some ulterior motive. I wrote these ideas down because I believe them or believe they are worth sharing and wished to have a conversation. It would be really nice if you could just approach what I say and talk about as is without looking for some short cut to talk about other things unless you have a heartfelt interest in nationalism or whatever.

[Macaquerie]

So its weirdness? What should I post about and find interesting? Tell me what you wish to see.

If I may psycho-analyses right back at you. I think for you its frustrating because the typical cultural expectation for any good and upstanding liberal is that a female in a blue state with graduate level education should for all intensive purposes be a good and normal Democrat. That is more problematic for you I'm suspecting. That in-spite of every statistical demographic I fit into, I am not what you would expect. But I'm also not calling you a cuck or wearing a silly red hat either.

I am here to say once and for all, I am not engaged in some ulterior motive. I wrote these ideas down because I believe them or believe they are worth sharing and wished to have a conversation. It would be really nice if you could just approach what I say and talk about as is without looking for some short cut to talk about other things unless you have a heartfelt interest in nationalism or whatever.

Even though you may not identify as a liberal, your ideas and the way you present them actually come much closer to the typical Republican view of the stereotypical clueless, head in the clouds faux intellectual than most actual liberals. While you might have an advanced degree, it has little bearing on the topics you are trying to discuss, and you try to use a lot of fancy language that is meant to sound intelligent and meaningful, but is devoid of much actual content. And then when people challenge your ideas you start deflecting and throwing out accusations of sexism. All I'm trying to point out is that there's a reason that people don't take your ideas seriously.

[Theodarzna]

Even though you may not identify as a liberal, your ideas and the way you present them actually come much closer to the typical Republican view of the stereotypical clueless, head in the clouds faux intellectual than most actual liberals. While you might have an advanced degree, it has little bearing on the topics you are trying to discuss, and you try to use a lot of fancy language that is meant to sound intelligent and meaningful, but is devoid of much actual content. And then when people challenge your ideas you start deflecting and throwing out accusations of sexism. All I'm trying to point out is that there's a reason that people don't take your ideas seriously.

And yet, in spite of the foregone conclusion you continue to wish to talk.