Should assassin beat outlaw in m+?

[Deleted]

Yes. Outlaw does shit damage. There are outlying examples where outlaw can be competitive, they require BiS legendaries.

Unfortunately outlaw is only competitive as an outlier, outside of BiS legendaries, on average, outlaw is horrible as compared to the other two specs. Not to mention compared to other classes.

It's not about ruining other people's fun, it was about answering the question pertaining to how well outlaw is doing in mythic plus, which is to say badly. unless you have the right legendaries. The other two specs can be competitive much more easily.

I just don't understand how you even reach that conclusion - Outlaw is the best m+ spec if you can't rely on legendaries ._. Sub and Assa only really hit their stride with the Cloak on AoE.

Outlaw did the best at the start of the xpac as well because it required the least gear to be effective and you had no legendaries.

You said yourself you want to answer the question and yet you provide a completely biased answer - If you think Outlaw does bad in m+, you've just never played with a good Outlaw. Check logs. Or if you're on EU servers, PM me and we'll do a run so you can meet an Outlaw doing well in m+ without BiS legendaries.

[JIMM-]

Yes. Outlaw does shit damage. There are outlying examples where outlaw can be competitive, they require BiS legendaries.

Unfortunately outlaw is only competitive as an outlier, outside of BiS legendaries, on average, outlaw is horrible as compared to the other two specs. Not to mention compared to other classes.

It's not about ruining other people's fun, it was about answering the question pertaining to how well outlaw is doing in mythic plus, which is to say badly. unless you have the right legendaries. The other two specs can be competitive much more easily.

u still need boots / shoulders / wrists to be competitive as assassin , all the top assassin logs u viewed are the "outliers" with those 3 legendaries, without those assassin is average , just like outlaw is without greenskin wrists or any other spec in legion, ALL specs require the top 2 bis to parse well.

[Deleted]

erm Assassination isnt even viable without Tyranical in Mythic+ . Worst Rogue spec for Mythic+ every difficulty. Outlaw is fine for Mythic+
Got Shoulders, bracers and gloves legendaries as Outlaw? You rape everyone not only Rogue specs in Mythic+ EVERYONE. Got no good legendaries? NP still easy better then assassination without cloak ^.^ Sin isnt even close. Sin does better then outlaw when Sin has Cloak+Shoulders+Boots compared to Outlaw without any good legendaries ^.-

Thats why Sin gets AoE buff in 7.2 :P

[elfporn]

u still need boots / shoulders / wrists to be competitive as assassin , all the top assassin logs u viewed are the "outliers" with those 3 legendaries, without those assassin is average , just like outlaw is without greenskin wrists or any other spec in legion, ALL specs require the top 2 bis to parse well.

you're right, i don't play ass though, particularly in m+.

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I just don't understand how you even reach that conclusion - Outlaw is the best m+ spec if you can't rely on legendaries ._. Sub and Assa only really hit their stride with the Cloak on AoE.

Outlaw did the best at the start of the xpac as well because it required the least gear to be effective and you had no legendaries.

You said yourself you want to answer the question and yet you provide a completely biased answer - If you think Outlaw does bad in m+, you've just never played with a good Outlaw. Check logs. Or if you're on EU servers, PM me and we'll do a run so you can meet an Outlaw doing well in m+ without BiS legendaries.

I really don't need the cloak to keep up with DH/fury in m+, fire mage still beats me though. I will admit to loading out for aoe, but i definitely don't need the cloak to keep up with/beat the "top specs" for m+

[Deleted]

you're right, i don't play ass though, particularly in m+.

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I really don't need the cloak to keep up with DH/fury in m+, fire mage still beats me though. I will admit to loading out for aoe, but i definitely don't need the cloak to keep up with/beat the "top specs" for m+

If you can keep up with a dh in m+, you are playing with horrible dhs. Could say the same thing about fury, but dh just blows assassination away.

[DallasPhoenix]

erm Assassination isnt even viable without Tyranical in Mythic+ . Worst Rogue spec for Mythic+ every difficulty. Outlaw is fine for Mythic+
Got Shoulders, bracers and gloves legendaries as Outlaw? You rape everyone not only Rogue specs in Mythic+ EVERYONE. Got no good legendaries? NP still easy better then assassination without cloak ^.^ Sin isnt even close. Sin does better then outlaw when Sin has Cloak+Shoulders+Boots compared to Outlaw without any good legendaries ^.-

Thats why Sin gets AoE buff in 7.2 :P

You know nothing. 7 mistakes in one post. And btw, fortified is better for Assa dmg.

I just don't understand how you even reach that conclusion - Outlaw is the best m+ spec if you can't rely on legendaries ._. Sub and Assa only really hit their stride with the Cloak on AoE.

Outlaw did the best at the start of the xpac as well because it required the least gear to be effective and you had no legendaries.

You said yourself you want to answer the question and yet you provide a completely biased answer - If you think Outlaw does bad in m+, you've just never played with a good Outlaw. Check logs. Or if you're on EU servers, PM me and we'll do a run so you can meet an Outlaw doing well in m+ without BiS legendaries.

Whats your overall dps after 12+? I have 800-850k WITHOUT Cloak (902 ilvl). If you play on Alliance PM me your btag (I cant PM cuz <10 posts)

[Deleted]

I really don't need the cloak to keep up with DH/fury in m+, fire mage still beats me though. I will admit to loading out for aoe, but i definitely don't need the cloak to keep up with/beat the "top specs" for m+

You need to play with a good fury warr/Havoc DH. How about WW monk? FDK?

Whats your overall dps after 12+? I have 800-850k WITHOUT Cloak (902 ilvl). If you play on Alliance PM me your btag (I cant PM cuz <10 posts)

Sent. - I'm on eu, just for clarification. Got logs?

[elfporn]

You need to play with a good fury warr/Havoc DH. How about WW monk? FDK?



Sent. - I'm on eu, just for clarification. Got logs?

Our DH averages 88 percentile on krosus, he's not "bad" but he's not top 20 either. i actually havn't been in a group with a frost DK or WW in months, odd as that may seem. I will admit as well that i've not competed against an outlaw rogue with BiS legendaries. My competition is a sub rogue with BiS legendaries.

My experience is definitely anecdotal because we don't log our mythic+. We do check overall and compete that way though.

[Deleted]

850k? how do you pull that up in 903 equipped?

[elfporn]

850k? how do you pull that up in 903 equipped?

KBW, arcanogolem digit, insignia, DFA, MoSub, anticipation, and large pulls. Cloak could replace insignia and boost it further.

[Deleted]

You know nothing. 7 mistakes in one post. And btw, fortified is better for Assa dmg.

Whats your overall dps after 12+? I have 800-850k WITHOUT Cloak (902 ilvl). If you play on Alliance PM me your btag (I cant PM cuz <10 posts)

OK! Mr Forum smurf

KBW, arcanogolem digit, insignia, DFA, MoSub, anticipation, and large pulls. Cloak could replace insignia and boost it further.

Here he is? Fail?
Regarless, im laughing at those numbers as Outlaw

[elfporn]

OK! Mr Forum smurf

Here he is? Fail?
Regarless, im laughing at those numbers as Outlaw

I wasn't claiming any sort of numbers, just listed a buildout i use for full-on aoe/cleave. I'm sure a well-equipped outlaw rogue could do very well in m+ with large pulls to work with. I'm also sure i can do as well or better as sub, especially on fortified weeks.

I'd like to be able to play outlaw (i enjoy the playstyle) but i just can't justify it when compared to sub right now. Maybe ill come back to it after i finish my ass weapon (i hate ass, but RL wants it as an offspec option)

[Deleted]

Sub Rogue with Shoulders & Cloak is great. Haven't ever seen any other rogue do better than I do. Even better as Nelf for extra shoulder uptime.

[Deleted]

You can also say OL is a garbage spec, we won't mind.

[RobertMugabe]

From my own experience, sin (insignia and cloak) and outlaw(insignia and shoulders) are somewhat on par regarding ST dmg and AOE. Maybe I am doing things wrong (i dont think so), but I really haven't seen the big difference everyone is talking here about.

Sometimes it just seems to me, that some people here don't like the outlaw spec as it is, so they make it seem worse than it actually is (regarding dmg)

[Blayke]

Yes. Outlaw does shit damage. There are outlying examples where outlaw can be competitive, they require BiS legendaries.

Unfortunately outlaw is only competitive as an outlier, outside of BiS legendaries, on average, outlaw is horrible as compared to the other two specs. Not to mention compared to other classes.

It's not about ruining other people's fun, it was about answering the question pertaining to how well outlaw is doing in mythic plus, which is to say badly. unless you have the right legendaries. The other two specs can be competitive much more easily.

And yet simulationcraft has them all rather close:

http://simulationcraft.org/reports/R...Legendary.html
http://simulationcraft.org/reports/R...Legendary.html

Without legendaries:

http://simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19M_NH.html
http://simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19H_NH.html

While this probably says more about sims than anything else, it's an interesting counterpoint.