Greece economic woes worsen as IMF says greece should have left Eurozone

[Adolecent]

Source that we knew? Which sane family would spend way to much money, knowing he would destroy the future of their children and the next 10 generations? None. They didn't know.

Yes they knew, the entire world knew it! Here is an article from 2004 where Greece was warned, and a 1995 report from NUI Galway. These are just 2 results that came up on a Google search. It is very simple: the Greek can blame whoever they please too except themselfs. But the bottom line is the information was available and when it wasn't an issue in any election over the past decades it remains their own fault for not asking about it. As an example, in my country we take financial policy of our government very seriously, and we've been doing that since "Maria gave birth to Jesus".

To exit this stupid discussion, with an advice to you to educate yourself better i quote the endresult of the 1995 report:

It also means that the undiscounted value of the debt is infinite.
Based on the second result, we conclude that the Greek budget deficits are 'too large'.

[Kuntantee]

I read few days ago that they were buying 20-30 F-35s. Poor Greeks... they will see the day light when they stop thinking they are Europeans (in a political sense, not geographical) and part of European Union.

[Cybran]

They're still not as poor as Bulgaria. Long way to go for them still.

4 years if the current trend continues. Plus Bulgaria's currency has been pegged to the D Mark since 1997 and the Banking sector has been largely controlled by German and ECB since then too.

Further evidence that Germans are promoting poverty.

[Mafic]

The problem with Greece is that they have no clear direction.

1. Wasting money on military hardware that isn't needed given their geographic location and mountainous terrain and natural barriers. How much does the Swiss invest in military? Are they less prepared than the Greeks? No.

2. They do not focus enough on the tourist aspect. The tourist aspect of many sites ancient and modern in Greece can be monotized by Greeks themselves. Many ancient sites with no oversight, no markers ,or potential to brings tourists to. A well defined tourism industry could also lead to a streamlined transportation infrastructure as well which benefits the citizens of Greece too not just the tourists.

3. Incentives to keep young Greek entrepreneurs to stay and invest in Greece.

To grow an economy yes you need spending power of the consumer, but you also need ideas to flourish and some level of structure.

Greece's private sector is weak and even their shipping powerhouses have let their competition in the Aegean surpass them.

Greece needs the Greek government to step aside and allow more capitalism to fix these market woes.

[Slant]

4 years if the current trend continues. Plus Bulgaria's currency has been pegged to the D Mark since 1997 and the Banking sector has been largely controlled by German and ECB since then too.

Further evidence that Germans are promoting poverty.

No, we just promote poverty for Bulgaria. Doing so for everyone else would be way too time consuming...

[Cybran]

No, we just promote poverty for Bulgaria. Doing so for everyone else would be way too time consuming...

According to the Reuters graph poverty rose in Greece, Italy, cyprus, Spain, etc. All countries saddled with your stupid austerity and debt.

Germany promotes poverty in all of southern Europe.

[Slant]

According to the Reuters graph poverty rose in Greece, Italy, cyprus, Spain, etc. All countries saddled with your stupid austerity and debt.

Germany promotes poverty in all of southern Europe.

Yup. That's it. You caught us.

[Deleted]

Amazing amount of factual ignorance displayed in this thread. No wonder, since the Murdoch rags are trying to push the anti-German stories through, to undermine EU cohesion.

Greece had the choice when they got this --><-- close to bankruptcy: Either they can go it alone, default, leave the Euro, reintroduce the Drachma and go from there - or, to have the Eurozone purchase 2/3rd of the Greek national debt, giving Greece ultra-lenient payback conditions on their loans, give them EXTRA MONEY to be able to pay back the non-EZ debt, and go from there, in return for vital reforms. Tsipras eventually took the second option and won the general elections, confirming this Greek choice.

If there was a fairy with a magical wand who only needed to wave it once and all Greek debts were gone, Greek would still be in unpayable debt 10 years later without the oh-so-horrible austerity reforms. You CANNOT run the country on a 10% budget deficit, like Greek did over decades, as long as you have a hard currency. And to this very day, the Eurozone still pours more money into Greece than they can ever get back, so the whole "Germany/the evil EU exploiting Greece" narrative is ridiculous nonsense.

Banking sector controlled by Germany? Hilarious! Germany has opposed the ECB's program purchasing state bonds (by ECB statutes illegal!) and was outvoted. Germany has opposed the excessive QE initiatives and was outvoted. Germany has opposed the 0% policy of easy money and was outvoted. All of which were measures which weaken the Euro - and Germany was outvoted. And then, nincompoops like Trump and Navarro accuse Germany of artificially weakening the Euro as currency manipulators. And Trump-loving ignorants gobble this BS up like manna.

Disgusting.

[Stelio Kontos]

I read few days ago that they were buying 20-30 F-35s. Poor Greeks... they will see the day light when they stop thinking they are Europeans (in a political sense, not geographical) and part of European Union.

I agree with you, but on the other hand, who can we turn to? We're not Europeans in the political sense, but we're also not Middle Eastern or Eastern Europeans (i.e. not former USSR) either. We exist in a weird sort of limbo.

[Kreeshak]

Yes they knew, the entire world knew it! Here is an article from 2004 where Greece was warned, and a 1995 report from NUI Galway. These are just 2 results that came up on a Google search. It is very simple: the Greek can blame whoever they please too except themselfs. But the bottom line is the information was available and when it wasn't an issue in any election over the past decades it remains their own fault for not asking about it. As an example, in my country we take financial policy of our government very seriously, and we've been doing that since "Maria gave birth to Jesus".

To exit this stupid discussion, with an advice to you to educate yourself better i quote the endresult of the 1995 report:

Do you also know what articles you can find when you google for 5 minutes? That the 911 job was an inside job and that the american land on moon was a hoax amongst other.

On the contrary think am I the one who needs to educate myself who have been breathing and living in Greece since earlier than 1995, or you who did a 5 minute google search?

EDIT: To be fair the first alarm bells did sound on 2004, but the majority didn't take them seriously. The first big alarm bells that touched the society was on 2008.

[Deleted]

Maybe the government of Greece should have been more responsible with how they ran their country.

They are far-left socialists, they can't be responsible by definition. All socialists are dull.

[Kreeshak]

Imo I would go as radical as to butcher all pensions and welfare, and use those saved money to attract businesses and open up jobs for the youth. What happens right now, is that the very few Greeks who are not pensioners and unemployed or have migrated (the ones that actually work), support the rest of the population, and this is wrong.

[Slant]

I agree with you, but on the other hand, who can we turn to? We're not Europeans in the political sense, but we're also not Middle Eastern or Eastern Europeans (i.e. not former USSR) either. We exist in a weird sort of limbo.

Greece is European. You can't get much more European than the nation that invented the whole idea of being European. You don't exist in a limbo.

[Kuntantee]

I agree with you, but on the other hand, who can we turn to? We're not Europeans in the political sense, but we're also not Middle Eastern or Eastern Europeans (i.e. not former USSR) either. We exist in a weird sort of limbo.

If we embraced secularism a bit more, and you were bit less nationalist, I would suggest Greece turning into Turkey (or Turkey turning into Greece, if that makes you feel better) and creating some sort of Aegean Confederation (including Cyprus) but impossible considering the population base of three countries, especially Greek Cypriots.

[Kuntantee]

That makes absolutely no sense.

I can't really see why...This type of cooperation would lock Mediterranean trade routes as well as Black Sea. These countries are also located on energy lines. It doesn't make sense as of now, sure, because it's impossible with current conjuncture. Ultimately, and without any sort of national proud barring the clear mind, it makes the perfect sense.

[Deleted]

I agree with you, but on the other hand, who can we turn to? We're not Europeans in the political sense, but we're also not Middle Eastern or Eastern Europeans (i.e. not former USSR) either. We exist in a weird sort of limbo.

I've never met anyone who doesn't consider greece and its people to be europeans.

[Cybran]

I've never met anyone who doesn't consider greece and its people to be europeans.

They Neo-Ottoman above you doesn't. He wants all of the Balkans to be returned as part of Greater Turkey ruled by Erdogan.

[Kuntantee]

They Neo-Ottoman above you doesn't. He wants all of the Balkans to be returned as part of Greater Turkey ruled by Erdogan.

Bulgarians can go love themselves man. No one , save for Russia looking for more pawns, is interested in you, to be honest. And this is not Neo-Ottomanism, what I suggested is a product of "hellenoturkism". Although I am not a particular admirer of that ideology, the need for improved cooperation for both Greece's and Turkey's sake is obvious.

[Deleted]

Many Greeks don't. Music, food, dances, the severe distrust of government, the knee jerk reaction of the average Greek against Germany, the US or capitalism. There is a significant culture distance between Greeks and Northern Europeans.

There's also significant cultural distance between the portugese and north europeans. Yet portugese people are european, too.

Germany isn't europe though, it's one country in europe.

[Slant]

If we embraced secularism a bit more, and you were bit less nationalist, I would suggest Greece turning into Turkey (or Turkey turning into Greece, if that makes you feel better) and creating some sort of Aegean Confederation (including Cyprus) but impossible considering the population base of three countries, especially Greek Cypriots.

That's so silly on so many different levels. :P

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Many Greeks don't. Music, food, dances, the severe distrust of government, the knee jerk reaction of the average Greek against Germany, the US or capitalism. There is a significant culture distance between Greeks and Northern Europeans.

The only cultural distance is due to Greeks wanting to be distant. It's not a cultural problem, per se.