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  1. #41
    Banned A dot Ham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    First off, you sound like a terrible individual. Killing your fellow americans? In jest?

    Second off, the reason California is important and powerful is two-fold.

    1) They have access to tremendous amounts of natural resources + the sea. There is a reason why port cities thrive.

    2) The human capital. California (along with most US cities, which guess what, lean left) attracts the best and brightest. You may not agree with their political opinions, but the point remains. California is not only full of young, smart and motivated people, but also creative people.

    If push comes to shove, you really think the US is going to lose California in favor of Kentucky? Hell, any red state (bar Texas)?
    The egos. Its just unreal.

    First lets deal with your coastal resources. Last I checked we have 2 other western states connected to the mainland that are coastal states. Second, Mexico is already in the process of building a MASSIVE port.

    http://gcaptain.com/mexicos-900-million-mega-container/

    California is not the only name in the sea game.

    2) How many presidents have come from California? The answer is 3. Reagan... and despite being loved by republicans (for what who knows) there are direct links between policies he implemented and the world wide depression in 2008. Ignorning the obvious fact that reganomics doesn't work. Nixon... we all know how much he was liked. Hoover.

    Hollywood is synonymous with creative. Silicon valley is synonymous with innovative. There is however, no data to support that (1) to be successful you have to move to California (2) That California somehow breeds this type of people.

    So your human capital argument is moot, because people can and do move and there are several examples of talented, intelligent, influential people that neither came from California, nor want anything to do with it. Bill Gates, the people's Champion Obama...

    Give me a list of every single person YOU think matters from California, and I'll come up with a counter list. This idea that California is somehow unique in this aspect is nonsense.

    Also, as stated earlier... how well do you expect California to fare when its companies when their patents and copyrights are no longer federally protected? I know Samsung would looooooove to see Apple bite the big one.
    Last edited by A dot Ham; 2017-02-22 at 02:15 AM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Partysaurus Rex View Post
    The egos. Its just unreal.

    First lets deal with your coastal resources. Last I checked we have 2 other western states connected to the mainland that are coastal states. Second, Mexico is already in the process of building a MASSIVE port.

    http://gcaptain.com/mexicos-900-million-mega-container/

    California is not the only name in the sea game.

    2) How many presidents have come from California? The answer is 3. Reagan... and despite being loved by republicans (for what who knows) there are direct links between policies he implemented and the world wide depression in 2008. Ignorning the obvious fact that reganomics doesn't work. Nixon... we all know how much he was liked. Hoover.

    Hollywood is synonymous with creative. Silicon valley is synonymous with innovative. There is however, no data to support that (1) to be successful you have to move to California (2) That California somehow breeds this type of people.

    So your human capital argument is moot, because people can and do move and there are several examples of talented, intelligent, influential people that neither came from California, nor want anything to do with it. Bill Gates, the people's Champion Obama...

    Give me a list of every single person YOU think matters from California, and I'll come up with a counter list. This idea that California is somehow unique in this aspect is nonsense.

    Also, as stated earlier... how well do you expect California to fare when its companies when their patents and copyrights are no longer federally protected? I know Samsung would looooooove to see Apple bite the big one.
    You're conflating what I'm saying. I NEVER said that Cali:

    A) Breeds these people
    2) Only successful people go to California

    However, there are great swathes of smart people who DO go there. I don't need a list of individuals. Silicon Valley, Berkley, Stanford. These are places that are filled to the brim with passionate, inventive, and hard-working individuals. This isn't unique to California, but it IS true that California has a reputation for being one of the most forward-thinking states (and I'm not talking about politics, but science and technology).

    If California were to secede (Which is unlikely and illegal) and there was some sort of war between Cali and the rest of the US, of course California would lose. But I highly doubt that if California were to leave, that the other West-coast states wouldn't be far behind nor.

    Besides, if Cali were to successfully leave and establish itself as a fully self-governing entity, I doubt that people would leave, rather the opposite; many those "coastal-elites" you love to lambast would probably flock to California in droves.

    I don't even know why we're arguing this though. The fact that the only reason you want them to secede is to have an excuse to murder your fellow Americans because you disagree with them, along with the fact that you can't foresee the economic and social ramifications that such a war would have on the rest of Americans is telling.

  3. #43
    The only legitimate secession movement in the US is the nation of the Conch Republic.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conch_Republic

  4. #44
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    Before the election when everything looked like Hillary would win, there was very serious talk by Republicans in Texas of secession (much more than California now). So bashing the minority there that is kicking around the idea is pretty hypocritical.

    More importantly, although some at a kneejerk response might have their dislike of Trump reach the point of thinking about seceding...reality is that it's something that Bannon would want far more than anyone in that group in California. He wants blue states to leave. It would totally solidify the red majority in the electoral college. Basically in the US the 2-party system would be completely dead if a large blue state like California left (and vice-versa if Clinton won and Texas left). The other side would literally never win another Presidential election. The US would be a 1-party autocracy. So once the reality of that really being the end-goal of Bannon, making the US such a terrible place to live for Democrats that they leave and increase red votes to solidify power, that realization of what the US would look like afterwards would kick in and any thought of secession would be put to bed.

  5. #45
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tumaras View Post
    Before the election when everything looked like Hillary would win, there was very serious talk by Republicans in Texas of secession (much more than California now). So bashing the minority there that is kicking around the idea is pretty hypocritical.

    More importantly, although some at a kneejerk response might have their dislike of Trump reach the point of thinking about seceding...reality is that it's something that Bannon would want far more than anyone in that group in California. He wants blue states to leave. It would totally solidify the red majority in the electoral college. Basically in the US the 2-party system would be completely dead if a large blue state like California left (and vice-versa if Clinton won and Texas left). The other side would literally never win another Presidential election. The US would be a 1-party autocracy. So once the reality of that really being the end-goal of Bannon, making the US such a terrible place to live for Democrats that they leave and increase red votes to solidify power, that realization of what the US would look like afterwards would kick in and any thought of secession would be put to bed.
    It was stupid with Texas and it's stupid with California.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    It was stupid with Texas and it's stupid with California.
    what if they both left

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Sky High View Post
    I just said I'd rather Cali stick around.... surely you can mental maths out what my position on this subject REALLY is.

    blah blah blah bladdy blah.

    about as much as my vote did. since I didn't want to vote for either presidential candidate.
    Id like Cali to stick around to. Just wish the western half would fall into the ocean.

  8. #48
    Makes sense. It's in the best interest of Russia or pro autocracy/authoritarian figures and groups in the US like Bannon for certain states like California to leave. It destroys the two party system and could send the rest of the nation into chaos.

    What would happen if California left, along with the rest of the western coast who would join them, Texas who would abuse the same hole, and possibly even New York? Suddenly the federal government lose a ton of military power and tax revenue used to fund so much of the nation's social spending. It'd easily lead the way for a more authoritarian Christian right party to take the reins.

    Also why it won't happen. As much shit as blue states get, they're basically funding the nation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    From my perspective it is an uncle who was is a "simple" slat of the earth person, who has religous beliefs I may or may not fully agree with, but who in the end of the day wants to go hope, kiss his wife, and kids, and enjoy their company.
    Connal defending child molestation

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Karfal View Post
    Id like Cali to stick around to. Just wish the western half would fall into the ocean.
    That's nice sweetie.

  10. #50
    California would take a portion of the US national debt (something like 1/7th of it) with it, coupled with the debt that state has racked up, they would be over a trillion in the red. To the guy saying they would simply be gifted all the US military equipment residing in Cali, keep dreaming.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Utterly vast amounts of US Air, Land and Sea Power is based in California. Along with a disproporate amount of manufacturing facilities for the arms industry.

    Oh and money. Unless you're planning on using muskets from the Smithsonian, you'd have to pay for said war. Spoiler Alert: Texas aside, the most conservative states in the country are the poorest, while the most liberal states are the richest.

    So good luck with that. More likely California-made Drones from the Boeing Phantom Works plant, or Northrop plant 42 would bomb your house with you in it, while you polished your gun and rambled on a bout how it protects your freedom.
    Tho isnt majority of the US military people from southern states? AKA non cali liberals.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tennisace View Post
    In other countries like Canada the population has chosen to believe in hope, peace and tolerance. This we can see from the election of the Honourable Justin Trudeau who stood against the politics of hate and divisiveness.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Les Grossman View Post
    To the guy saying they would simply be gifted all the US military equipment residing in Cali, keep dreaming.
    They wouldn't be 'gifted' it, the equipment is already there. If they left, they would keep the equipment. I don't believe that you don't understand this.

    Tho isnt majority of the US military people from southern states? AKA non cali liberals.
    This is what you're looking for:
    http://ijr.com/2015/02/251918-data-s...military-come/

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Bring it on, truck nuts.
    It's funny how fast Americans are ready to kill each other. Maybe this holy Union isn't that Holy at all.

  14. #54
    Herald of the Titans Berengil's Avatar
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    Even if the California National Guard resisted federalization, they don't have the numbers to resist a ground attack from the massive numbers of Guard units in states that would stay loyal ( nor from the regular Army).

    And let us not forget the threat of a mushroom cloud over Sacramento.
    " The guilt of an unnecessary war is terrible." --- President John Adams
    " America goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy." --- President John Quincy Adams
    " Our Federal Union! It must be preserved!" --- President Andrew Jackson

  15. #55


    Here's Louis Marinelli, the guy behind California secession, getting his orders from the KGB/FSB

    The Russians gave Louis an office and a bunch of rubles to get the initiative on the ballot.
    .

    "This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."

    -- Capt. Copeland

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcap View Post
    The Russians gave Louis an office and a bunch of rubles to get the initiative on the ballot.
    Americans tried to do the same with the Siberian bullshit back in 2014. Russians in those threads stood united, unlike the bickering Americans who argue who could kill who more.

    It's poetic.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Utterly vast amounts of US Air, Land and Sea Power is based in California. Along with a disproporate amount of manufacturing facilities for the arms industry.

    Oh and money. Unless you're planning on using muskets from the Smithsonian, you'd have to pay for said war. Spoiler Alert: Texas aside, the most conservative states in the country are the poorest, while the most liberal states are the richest.

    So good luck with that. More likely California-made Drones from the Boeing Phantom Works plant, or Northrop plant 42 would bomb your house with you in it, while you polished your gun and rambled on a bout how it protects your freedom.
    Spoiler alert:
    85% of gasoline production in the US comes from Texas. Speaking of "vast amounts of US air, land and sea power", Texas has the one of the very few bases in the entire world that has a Air Force, Army, Marines, Navy and Coast Gaurd stationed on a single base as well as NASA. American Airlines( 4rd largest)is based in Texas. Southwest Airlines (3th largest) is based in Texas. Lockheed Martin builds military aircraft in Texas. Texas GDP is ~8% of the US. That makes it ranked #14 in the world. Or higher than Spain, Netherlands and South Korea.

    California can run their vehicles on wind turbines that kill golden eagles I suppose.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Americans tried to do the same with the Siberian bullshit back in 2014. Russians in those threads stood united, unlike the bickering Americans who argue who could kill who more.

    It's poetic.
    Strange thing is our union has stood the test of time for 230+ years, did theirs?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shibito View Post
    Tho isnt majority of the US military people from southern states? AKA non cali liberals.
    Yes...
    Liberals are of the ilk "do as I say not as I do".
    They talk aggressively to others about killing and maiming. Yet they want others to "play nice".

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Arikan View Post
    They wouldn't be 'gifted' it, the equipment is already there. If they left, they would keep the equipment. I don't believe that you don't understand this.
    So you're stance is, Cali would just up and leave on a moments notices and the US Govt would be blindsided by the move? And when the US says, give us back our equipment Cali would just say "Nope, we're claiming it as ours!"? All the people who fly those planes and tank would choose to stay in Cali versus leave and go back to wherever?

    I can't see that playing out that way. If Cali were to try and leave, it would be through a slow (legal) process and has it looked more likely, you would see the US Govt removing more and more equipment along the way at a minimum or a military build up to prevent it from starting. I don't believe Californians have the will\desire for straight up rebellion that would call for engaging any federal troops\law enforcement.

    I think some of this "I'll kick you ass", "no I'll kick yours" is a bit silly. It's a fun little make believe war. But neither side really wants it. I think it's great therapy for us all to "let it out", so we can heal and move forward
    Last edited by Mad_Murdock; 2017-02-22 at 02:32 PM.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Marakesh View Post
    Realistically, I think if a state voted to secede, we would just let them go. It would be very difficult to motivate people to fight a civil war on the grounds of no separation. Maybe put some legal and political roadblocks in their way to test their resolve, but no war is gonna happen.
    Any conflict arising would likely be initiated by the state that seceded. A conflict that would happen within it's own borders as too many people would realize that they just became part of the 3rd World without federal monies.

    Hmf...and what happens when the Colorado River dries up? What happens to the states so affected?

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Murdock View Post
    So you're stance is, Cali would just up and leave on a moments notices and the US Govt would be blindsided by the move? And when the US says, give us back our equipment Cali would just say "Nope, we're claiming it as ours!"? All the people who fly those planes and tank would choose to stay in Cali versus leave and go back to wherever?

    I can't see that playing out that way. If Cali were to try and leave, it would be a slow process and has it looked more likely, you would see the US Govt removing more and more equipment along the way at a minimum or a military build up to prevent it from starting. I don't believe Californians have the will\desire for straight up rebellion that would call for engaging any federal troops\law enforcement.
    My stance is Sacramento, San Francisco, Los Angeles and San Diego would be turned to rubble.

    How could we look the South in eye if we didn't do to California what we did to them?

    You have to beat the other 49 in a war, make us bend a knee.
    .

    "This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."

    -- Capt. Copeland

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