stormblood

[Deleted]

But are there enough other things to do endgame besides Alex or Savage? Jep, is there enough other content to do besides the MSQ? Jep. oh snap

Yes you have to put effort into the game to progress somewhere, you have to follow the story to a certain point to progress, it just works that way. Don't like it? sure, more power to you. But you'll have to accept that there are also a lot of people who do like it.

So the people that do like it, do not buy the potion...
And is there enough content outside of MSQ, does stormblood even have any content? How would the people know that don't finish content they don't want to do. Oh yeah, right. They will never know, unlike the people that do Alex Savage, which isn't required for anything and you can literally do *everything* except this mode itself. Unlike the people that don't want to do the Bahamut "sidestory", even though it's not a "sidestory" in the first place, but SE decided it's not part of the MSQ.

And more Power to me? You just said that you don't want me to have any power over it because you are against the potion or something. (though I'm quite frankly not even affected whether the potion exists or not, I'm just being reasonable and understand why it's a valid desire and I'm able to understand that there is absolutely no reason to assume this has some negative impact on future content)
Honestly, I'll end it here before I'm going mad in this echo chamber of stupidity.
It was wrong of me to even think I could bring forth/argue about something that is completely reasonable and change someones view on things, so they might understand that they are basically on a witch hunt against something that doesn't exist.

[Sorrior]

I know that you are a weeb, Dragneel. The thing is, that doesn't stop others from playing JRPGs on handhelds, consoles and PCs too. I was just trying to whip out your pitiful attempt (saying that someone is playing the wrong game) to shrug this discussing off. Especially when you use made up beliefs.

I'm pretty sure I can't skip the story in The Witcher either... what's the point of your remark? It's also build around the story, more so than FFXIV in fact, as it has barely anything to offer than the world and story it plays in, but I don't need to play W1/W2 to play W3 if I don't want to.

And what's that BS about them abandoning the story just because they release the potion for old content? Where is this even comming from? And why do you guys keep repeating it even though there is no reason to think they would suddenly stop thinking about new stories and quests?

Heh we are saying the peopke who would use it to skip story will promote negative community practices as we have seen in a great many games

Annd for future reference I am well past my Otaku days.

And the Witcher is indeed more story driven and no you do not need to play the earlier ones to enjoy it. But you do need to play earlier parts of say Witcher 3 to get to skellig.

The issue is overall the idea the story is unimportant or not a core part of the game. This us a story driven game your own comments point towards a game like ESO suiting you more.

Free-form style where you can be a scoundrel or a hero based on your perceptions Abd pkaystyke even the quests you do. Yeppers. Go to various areas in almost any order yep. Not focused on story again yes.

So instead of saying we should untie story from progress and dungeons mayhap another game woukd suit you better.

It is not poor game design just because it is not your kind of game. That is wjat we are trying to say. Oh and I will likely use a jump potion if added on alts but not sure yet.

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Not really, you want the game to change to suit the needs of the minority. Don't like it? Don't play it, in the meantime there are enough people who enjoy the game
Nobody is forcing you to play the game, there are enough other options around, from WoW to GW2, to Wildstar etc. You want a singular game that does this, to change because you (or your brother) don't agree with it. It just doesn't work that way

Honestly all his statements make me think ESO is EXACTLY his kind of game

[8bithamster]

So the people that do like it, do not buy the potion...
And is there enough content outside of MSQ? How would the people know that don't finish it. Oh yeah, right.

And more Power to me? You just said that you don't want me to have any power over it because you are against the potion or something.
Honestly, I'll end it here before I'm going mad in this echo chamber of stupidity.
It was wrong of me to even think I could bring forth/argue about something that is completely reasonable and change someones view on things, so they might understand that they are basically on a witch hunt against something that doesn't exist.

Please quote me where I said I am against the potion! please do. Because right now you're on a witch hunt against 0. Want to know why? I am all for the potion. Just your reasoning is redundant. But please quote me where I am against it! Please, I am eagerly awaiting it.

[Sorrior]

But are there enough other things to do endgame besides Alex or Savage? Jep, is there enough other content to do besides the MSQ? Jep. oh snap

Yes you have to put effort into the game to progress somewhere, you have to follow the story to a certain point to progress, it just works that way. Don't like it? sure, more power to you. But you'll have to accept that there are also a lot of people who do like it.

And that this game caters too and is designed for those who do like it

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So the people that do like it, do not buy the potion...
And is there enough content outside of MSQ, does stormblood even have any content? How would the people know that don't finish content they don't want to do. Oh yeah, right. They will never know, unlike Alex Savage which isn't required for anything and you can literally do *everything* except this mode itself.

And more Power to me? You just said that you don't want me to have any power over it because you are against the potion or something.
Honestly, I'll end it here before I'm going mad in this echo chamber of stupidity.
It was wrong of me to even think I could bring forth/argue about something that is completely reasonable and change someones view on things, so they might understand that they are basically on a witch hunt against something that doesn't exist.

Heh you have gone beyond the potion I'm some if your statements implying that raiding Abd dungeons should be untied from the story which us honestly not good in many players opinion. The world building and lore are amazing and one reason wow has gone downhill is by abandoning it

As for the potions they are double edged swords but honestly as long as the story is kept intact then it is cool.

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Please quote me where I said I am against the potion! please do. Because right now you're on a witch hunt against 0. Want to know why? I am all for the potion. Just your reasoning is redundant. But please quote me where I am against it! Please, I am eagerly awaiting it.

Honestly look back his focus was about removing story requirements period before he went on the potion rant.

[8bithamster]

And that this game caters too and is designed for those who do like it

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Heh you have gone beyond the potion I'm some if your statements implying that raiding Abd dungeons should be untied from the story which us honestly not good in many players opinion. The world building and lore are amazing and one reason wow has gone downhill is by abandoning it

As for the potions they are double edged swords but honestly as long as the story is kept intact then it is cool.

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Honestly look back his focus was about removing story requirements period before he went on the potion rant.

Assumed as much. The potion I am all for, just dump em at 50 and have them do all the story from ARR, Heavensward etc.

[Deleted]

Please quote me where I said I am against the potion! please do. Because right now you're on a witch hunt against 0. Want to know why? I am all for the potion. Just your reasoning is redundant. But please quote me where I am against it! Please, I am eagerly awaiting it.

Then why are you even talking back to me?
Please quote me about the things you disagree with, why don't we start there? It all started with you quoting me saying I was offtopic, even though I'm on topic.
It's you who is trying to defend the MSQ for some reason and that it's cool/alright that you have to play through it, not me. I'm saying it's not alright because give me one reason why we can't have 2 happy crowds of people that do both get to enjoy the things they want in this scenario.

Why wouldn't I want it to change for example? What makes you think it doesn't work that way, what makes you think I have to stop playing the game because I don't agree with a single point? Because games do change based on feedback, FFXIV changed because people complained. It starts with QoL stuff, it ends with the combat and design, the only reason why ARR even exist is because people complained about 1.0 and because people say what should be done or shouldn't be done, however it's necessary to find reasons for changing something.

As I mentioned, the community won't suddently shift into LoLs just because that potion exists, the Stormblood content will be just as heavily story driven as the content before, so basically, people want a big hurdle, to weed out others that have a slightly different view on things or simply can't be bothered with content that they don't necessarily want to do. Great. I'm pretty sure the game can grow on that (/s).

The sad thing is, no matter what you guys say, the MSQ doesn't even remotely take up most of your/my game time once you are past it(let's be realistic here, how much hours do you spend on MSQ content each patch and how much on the rest?), yet it's *probably* the biggest "problem" the game has right now when it comes to attracting players. And I'm not asking for them to change or delete it, I'm asking them to consider a way *around* it (around the old stuff even). A way to play the game and enjoy the other 95% (or whatever number you see fit) of the content.

And how is my reasoning redunant, when you can't even defend against it properly. Are you saying it's rather obvious that the potion should exist? Yeah, damn right. Then I'm glad we are on the same line. So why the hell do you intervene when I'm trying to tickle out reasons from people that do not wish to have that potion ingame.

Honestly look back his focus was about removing story requirements period before he went on the potion rant.

I don't understand how these are two different things?
The potion is meant to make the MSQ not a requirement to get into the new stuff. That is all.

[AcidicSyn]

To be completely honest; I'm torn on this topic. I both hate and love the potion idea; and both hate and love that MSQ is required.

First MSQ:

Personally, I think MSQ should remain a mandatory requirement. This is a Final Fantasy game, a franchise that has been 85-90% story and 10% gameplay for as long as I can remember. It does not make a whole lot of sense to me that someone would choose ff14 as their mmo and not be the kind of gamer that enjoys story. (I have another rant about how I wish square would drastically increase the amount of voice acting but I'll try and stay OT)

That being said; it's also an MMORPG, a genre that (I feel) needs to cater to many different styles of gameplay. I don't think I should be able to skip the MSQ, especially on my first character, what I don't enjoy is being forced to run dungeons in order to progress through that MSQ. I have very little time to play these days, focusing on expanding my career and real life commitments; but I love to play. There is very little (In fact nothing) more heartbreaking then having 20-40 minutes to play but being 100% unable to continue to play and progress my characters main job because the quest I am on requires that I run a dungeon. (Join an FC, play with friends, and all other similar arguments are frankly invalid and fail to truly address that issue). If I could ask Yoshi P and the team to change one thing, it would be to make the dungeon requirements of the MSQ mandatory quests end at unlocking the dungeon. (Compromise here would be to keep the requirement for the current expansions content but allow all previous MSQ dungeon quests to be skippable)

Next the potion:

I think the potion is a great idea in theory- but I would completely rework it tbh. First and foremost, I would not put it in the mog station; to me that is just ridiculous. I would make it a craftable item in the game players could sell for gil. HOWEVER, to change how it works- rather than being a "boost" potion, I would make it a materia, or a variety of weapons, or a hat, or special food item. Make it dramatically increase the XP earned from quests, mobs, whathaveyou as well as stack with the armory buff that is already in the game that does similar based on the difference between your highest job level and currently equipped one.

Finally; add the following restrictions:

* Does not work in current expansion content
* Does not work if your currently active job is your highest job (so doesn't work on mains/first toons)
(For point 2 above, if you have a max level on another server, and create a new character- allow it to be used- this makes it easier for people to reroll on other servers and play with their friends)



Whatcha think?

[Deleted]

Academics, Philosophers and Game Designers, actually. Don't bother paying attention to what they have to say and just dismiss their points entirely on the grounds that they're "random ass western white folk".



True, but it does present the information in a handy bite-sized way. There are academic journals and publications online, but not everyone has access to those, and they're quite a long read for people who aren't interested in digging through a 12 page article for what can be condensed to a few bullet points. I agree, Wikipedia isn't the best source, but it is a convenient one, and is in this case accurate and clear enough to give everyone some common definitions we can work with.



In Chess a check comes about as a result of choices made by the players. The rules regarding it also prevent players from accidentally losing the game by making a move that could result in their King being captured.

In your Dodgeball and Baseball examples, those are the game rules setting the boundries of the experience. They're necessary for the game to even take place.

In FF 14 the physical boundries of the experience are set by the geography of Eorzea in much the same way a football pitch is the boundry of that experience. The rules regarding combat and player interactions set the boundries of those experiences. Those rules are then completely ignored because it is the ineffable will of Square Enix.



If people do choose to enjoy Final Fantasy for other reasons than the story? I've enjoyed doing things like the 122333 runs in FF 12 and No Sphere Grid runs in 10. Those weren't intended by Square, nor were any of the countless other challenge runs or Speed Runs and so on that players themselves can come up with. Developers do not get to say you "playing the game wrong"!

The only other Final Fantasy that has been this strict with the story was 13, and that was a very polarising game because of it. The rest have all allowed the player the freedom to chase whatever goals they wanted to in game.

Also Dark Souls games do have adjustable difficulty, it's not built into the interface, but the games mechanics themselves. You get to choose how diffcult the game is for you through your weapon and spell choices, or by opting into certain covenants. It's actually a very interesting topic to get into, and one that could very well be a feature of future gaming. Extra Credits did great summary of it, if you're interested.

Anyone wanting to play them for the lore and the world can do so at a drastically reduced difficulty if they so wish, (it scales so low that even my Mum has completed all three Dark Souls!) without it affecting players who are looking for that hard-as-nails old school kind of challenge. It's a solution that works for everybody.

I want Square to come up with a similar system with their MSQ, one that works for everybody. One that doesn't chase away people who would otherwise really enjoy what the game has to offer, but are put off by the story. One that lets players who love the story do it to the exclusion of all else.

13 wasn't a controversial game because it shoved the story in your face. It was controversial because many did not enjoy the story and the characters.

[8bithamster]

Then why are you even talking back to me?
Please quote me about the things you disagree with, why don't we start there? It all started with you quoting me saying I was offtopic, even though I'm on topic.
It's you who is trying to defend the MSQ for some reason and that it's cool/alright that you have to play through it, not me. I'm saying it's not alright because give me one reason why we can't have 2 happy crowds of people that do both get to enjoy the things they want in this scenario.

Why wouldn't I want it to change for example? What makes you think it doesn't work that way, what makes you think I have to stop playing the game because I don't agree with a single point? Because games do change based on feedback, FFXIV changed because people complained. It starts with QoL stuff, it ends with the combat and design, the only reason why ARR even exist is because people complained about 1.0 and because people say what should be done or shouldn't be done, however it's necessary to find reasons for changing something.

As I mentioned, the community won't suddently shift into LoLs just because that potion exists, the Stormblood content will be just as heavily story driven as the content before, so basically, people want a big hurdle, to weed out others that have a slightly different view on things or simply can't be bothered with content that they don't necessarily want to do. Great. I'm pretty sure the game can grow on that (/s).

The sad thing is, no matter what you guys say, the MSQ doesn't even remotely take up most of your/my game time once you are past it(let's be realistic here, how much hours do you spend on MSQ content each patch and how much on the rest?), yet it's *probably* the biggest "problem" the game has right now when it comes to attracting players. And I'm not asking for them to change or delete it, I'm asking them to consider a way *around* it (around the old stuff even). A way to play the game and enjoy the other 95% (or whatever number you see fit) of the content.

And how is my reasoning redunant, when you can't even defend against it properly. Are you saying it's rather obvious that the potion should exist? Yeah, damn right. Then I'm glad we are on the same line. So why the hell do you intervene when I'm trying to tickle out reasons from people that do not wish to have that potion ingame.




I don't understand how these are two different things?
The potion is meant to make the MSQ not a requirement to get into the new stuff. That is all.

Dancing around the subject, where's my quote? Bitching about a mechanic that has been in the game since ARR launched is off topic, seeing as that it has 0 relevance to the Expansion

[Deleted]

No it's not offtoppic, you are offtopic. No one cares about whether you said the exact words or not. You were saying stuff about me I didn't say word for word either. I didn't even try to quote you I said "or something" as in "I don't know what the fuck you want".

So how about *you* stop dancing around the subject and contribute to the discussion this thread is about? Because this thread is about whether a potion and skip exists or not. And since the answer has been given, this thread was shortly after (3rd post in) used to discuss whether a potion *should* exist or not.

So... grow up or something?
On top of that, I'm talking about a story skip potion, you are not for it, you are against it

Assumed as much. The potion I am all for, just dump em at 50 and have them do all the story from ARR, Heavensward etc.

So there is your quote, you still want them to do the story. Now eat it. Your idea of a skip is basically not a skip and only works if the account has already done the whole shit, which is completely different from what I and a few others wanted to point out and not the same thing as it doesn't tackle the problem we described at *all*.

You can also bet your freaking ass that this method and design is not sustainable expansion after expansion and if they aim for another 5-10 years, they'll change it. So why not now?

[Sorrior]

13 wasn't a controversial game because it shoved the story in your face. It was controversial because many did not enjoy the story and the characters.

More like no exploration period and on rails honestly it was a good game just an abysmal ff

[Scufflegrit]

How can you know if this is true or not

the MSQ alone doesn't even cover and close itself up properly.

... if this is also true:

It's okay that they want me to see the story, but if I'm skipping through anything they throw at me, I'm not seeing it either way.

You can't have it both ways.

[Wrecktangle]

LOL the same people in here still arguing their hilariously weak arguments. I already dismantled every single one of them and they are now refusing to respond, but have no problem ganging up or echo chambering on @KrayZee though even though his points are well thought out and presented.

I like the part where people are telling him what kind of game he should play LOL. Also fun fact for anyone coming at me. I watched every cutscene and enjoyed the story. I am not every player though and neither are you. To limit your POV based on that is juvenile. try to think of yourself in other situations. Remember this game is not perfect. It can and should be improved.

[8bithamster]

So there is your quote, you still want them to do the story. Now eat it.

No, I asked for a quote where I AM AGAINST THE POTION.

Please provide me one instead of derailing and using horrible flawed arguments like "but my brother!!!!"

[StationaryHawk]

No, I asked for a quote where I AM AGAINST THE POTION.

Please provide me one instead of derailing and using horrible flawed arguments like "but my brother!!!!"

From briefly reading over this argument, you clearly oppose the purpose that this hypothetical potion would serve-- that is, to skip old content in order to arrive at the newer content faster.

The potion is meant to make the MSQ not a requirement to get into the new stuff. That is all.

It's obvious that you disagree with their stance, and they disagree with yours. I don't see what the point is in your two continuing to spam this thread with pointless attempts to convince each other that you're right. It will never happen. Just move on.

[Deleted]

No, I asked for a quote where I AM AGAINST THE POTION.

Please provide me one instead of derailing and using horrible flawed arguments like "but my brother!!!!"

Okay, it's rather obvious that you don't understand what you are talking about now.
I just quoted you, you are against the potion - what you said basically means "I have nothing against a leveling potion AS LONG AS PEOPLE HAVE TO PLAY THROUGH ARR + HW"
and stop your "but my brother!!!" BS, I didn't even remotely use him as an argument, just as an example, because I thought you do not have the ability to understand what's going on and it's actually quite funny that my assumption was correct. Once again, you keep failing and being wrong.

From briefly reading over this argument, you clearly oppose the purpose that this hypothetical potion would serve-- that is, to skip old content in order to arrive at the newer content faster.
It's obvious that you disagree with their stance, and they disagree with yours. I don't see what the point is in your two continuing to spam this thread with pointless attempts to convince each other that you're right. It will never happen. Just move on.

I'm basically asking as to why they are against it. But they/he (especially) keep(s) derailing.
So far, the only argument I could grasp and understand was something along the lines "I don't want other people, that have a different mindset than me, come towards me and rush me in dungeons etc."
But what I'm saying is that this is already happening either way and if we are being honest, one doesn't lead to the other, because there are just as many people that play casualy and slow, that do not want to go through the MSQ. I've never said a word towards a healer that doesn't DPS in content he doesn't have to heal... I've never called someone out on his poor DPS. I would prefer it to be different of course, but I'm not bothering other players with it. So, in a way, I should be able to expect the same amount of consideration towards something as minor as a story skip, that can't even possibly(unlike the example I just gave) bother them and their game experience in any way whatsoever.
They are somewhat hooked up on the thought that the player has the responsibility to play and enjoy the game the devs want them too. They don't even consider the fact, that the MSQ is just a "part" of the game and not *the* game.

I understand that the FFXIV is very "soft". You'd understand that by playing for a few hours.. and it's great, somewhat. But that doesn't mean everything is perfect the way it is.

So to sum it up, I'm waiting for arguments, instead of "fear mongering" or whatever someone wants to call their doomsaying.

Just like back then when there was absolutely no arguments on the "healers don't need to DPS" side and people thought it's okay to *afk* for 30 minutes while the others invest effort to make the run as smooth as possible. We had to spent like 10 pages to make clear that we are talking about a situation where the healer CAN do it and that he should not be FORCED to do it and that he SHOULD CONSIDER it at least.
Just like people thought it's okay that the first relic step is completely random and could range from, I don't know, a 20 Fate grind to a 1000.
No, that's not okay, that's stupid.
Just like the current Legendary system in WoW, RNG is stupid when it's involving something that is considered important by the community. There isn't even a single reason to make it RNG in the first place in that regard. Just why? How many persons are unhappy about the fact that they had to do 300 fates, and how many people would be unhappy if they had to do a certain 50 to get to the next step?

The reason why I've mentioned these examples is: This shit repeats itself over and over again, it's dense and completely hindering progress in any way whatsoever.

So, where the hell is the, if possible unshakeable, counter argument that is against this OPTIONAL service (if it were a thing). Just where?
Once more I'd like to ask why someone feels bothered by someone else just because he uses a story-skip potion and I'm already certain that my next question would be:

"And you really think you can't look over it similar to how you look over the fact that some other people didn't do the Tower/Bahamut/Void quests or beast tribes quests?".

[8bithamster]

I give up @KrayZee, I asked for a quote where I am against the potion, instead you quoted me saying I have no issues with it, bar 1 limit on it.

You want to twist those words to suit your needs, go for it. Maybe all your dozens of people who you know have quit the game because of it (because I assume you did some research into "omg it needs to change nao!) want to be your white knights, but sadly you wont find em here.

We all have different opinions, the bloody end.

[Katchii]

LOL the same people in here still arguing their hilariously weak arguments. I already dismantled every single one of them and they are now refusing to respond, but have no problem ganging up or echo chambering on @KrayZee though even though his points are well thought out and presented.

I like the part where people are telling him what kind of game he should play LOL. Also fun fact for anyone coming at me. I watched every cutscene and enjoyed the story. I am not every player though and neither are you. To limit your POV based on that is juvenile. try to think of yourself in other situations. Remember this game is not perfect. It can and should be improved.

I don't think anyone is arguing entirely against improving the game, or changing how story is involved. Based on what I'm reading, most people agree that story is a focus of this game and should remain that way. Some are at the extremes and advocate for the story to be entirely optional, with no connection whatsoever to what you do and don't have access to, and some advocate for it to remain entirely untouched.

Personally, I feel the story from 2.0-current is too much of a slog for new players to get through and should be streamlined to allow for these players to get to the end game content, or the whatever parts they care about getting to, and play with their friends without having to spend upwards of a month getting through the story. My example from earlier was that currently the story is like driving across country from LA to New York, and I think that you should be able to take a flight instead with a guide or something giving you the points of interest you may have missed so you're still clued in on what's important or mini-teleports to particular areas of interest, while skipping the mundane pieces and just getting the meaty parts. I don't want you to basically just start in New York with a pamphlet telling you all the things you could have seen on the drive.

The other part of this whole thing is that all of this discussion is pointless IMO for two reasons. 1) This isn't the official forums and FFXIV is based out of Japan, so It's not impossible that whatever is being discussed here will ever be seen by a developer, so all this trying to convince other random players that have no power to change anything anyway is meaningless and 2) The developers have already doubled down on the story being mandatory, and Square-Enix in regards to FFXI and now FFXIV have never really been very open to changing their games based on player feedback. Not saying they've never done it, but any changes they've made have been small or as a result of them looking into what players say and testing it out and gathering data about it first before doing anything, and it's never been in regards to an entire game system that's in place and I doubt they'll start now.

Final Fantasy as a series (the main series numbered games in particular) have all been story focused games, with the mechanics and game play being more of a vehicle for you to experience that story rather than the focus of the game, unlike say Doom or Street Fighter where the game mechanics and gameplay or the main focus with story being secondary. In many of the FF games, once you have progressed the story to a certain point you get a lot more freedom to explore and play around, which is the same here in FFXIV. The developers are keeping the Final Fantasy feel of this game, I just hope they find a way to keep that feeling while also making it easier for new players to get into it as an MMO.

[Deleted]

I give up @KrayZee, I asked for a quote where I am against the potion, instead you quoted me saying I have no issues with it, bar 1 limit on it.

You want to twist those words to suit your needs, go for it. Maybe all your dozens of people who you know have quit the game because of it (because I assume you did some research into "omg it needs to change nao!) want to be your white knights, but sadly you wont find em here.

We all have different opinions, the bloody end.

The limit you have on it is literally the reason why I want the potion. This has nothing to do with twisting words.
You want an entirely different thing, you could say "I'm for the potion, I think it's fine that there is a potion that gives everyone itemlevel 270" (it wouldn't be the same thing)
your Potion =/= my Potion

[StationaryHawk]

I give up @KrayZee, I asked for a quote where I am against the potion, instead you quoted me saying I have no issues with it, bar 1 limit on it.

You want to twist those words to suit your needs, go for it. Maybe all your dozens of people who you know have quit the game because of it (because I assume you did some research into "omg it needs to change nao!) want to be your white knights, but sadly you wont find em here.

We all have different opinions, the bloody end.

I'm not sure how you know what sort of arguments they'll find here, seeing as you're unwilling to read any that don't support your argument. Leave it at the last sentence next time.