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  1. #381
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natureapex View Post
    Trump is removing the unskilled illegal workers, not forcing them into rural areas.
    Read the actual order or have someone read it to you. Trump and his ilk are not targeting only "unskilled illegal workers".

    The term used in the order is "all removable aliens". That means everyone in the USA who is not a citizen.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
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  2. #382
    The Insane Daelak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natureapex View Post
    Sounds like you draw a narrative based on one small case of something happening that is unrelated to what trump is doing.

    Trump is removing the unskilled illegal workers, not forcing them into rural areas.
    What I am saying that it is logistically and financially impossible to remove all illegal immigrants. Using past examples, it will only hurt the economy. There isn't one case, you can go back to the 1970's to see the deleterious effect of "tough on immigration" rhetoric has on cities and states.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenfoldor View Post
    You have just normalized Trump.
    Not following your post here.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    There is a problem, but I know just banning guns will fix the problem.

  3. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daelak View Post
    What I am saying that it is logistically and financially impossible to remove all illegal immigrants. Using past examples, it will only hurt the economy. There isn't one case, you can go back to the 1970's to see the deleterious effect of "tough on immigration" rhetoric has on cities and states.
    So your alternative is a lacklustre defense against unchecked immigration that causes even more depression of wages and causes crime to surge. You know what, I will give you a little homework. Look at the college enrollment of Lations over the years. You'll be surprised how they thrive when Illegal immigration is curbed.

    Illegal Immigration helps nobody.

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by Daelak View Post
    This is laughably backwards. There was no vetting process in San Francisco during the time of the Asian immigration waves on the west coast, in fact the only process NYC had during the mid 1800's was literally conscription of all immigrant males, and the women and children were sent to orphanages, textile mills, and other manufacturing centers to work for nearly nothing. Until Allied forces found the concentration camps deep inside Germany, Jewish immigrants were rejected and/or detained from entering due to the anti-semitic beliefs of US politicians and people.
    Hey guys, you know what happense in the 1800's totally applies today!


    None of these waves were welcomed nor did they assimilate to whatever vagueness of definition of what assimilating to American Values even means. They were allowed to keep their wages in order to start communities and build wealth, which blacks were never allowed to do until the latter quarter of the 20th century.
    That is bullshit, read a history book now and then, also stop trying to turn this into a race thread.

  5. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natureapex View Post
    Using the National Guard to arrest criminals is facist now?
    Not in a vacuum no. But discrediting the free press, removing the transparancey of government, regulating what scientists are allowed to say, ruling with a small council, describing yourself as the only person who can save everyone, and now using the military to round up undesirables ARE trademark steps taken by almost EVERY dictator that has risen to power since the inception of civilisation. It's up to you to interpret if you think this is just a coincedence.

  6. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by slaskel View Post
    Not in a vacuum no. But discrediting the free press, removing the transparancey of government, regulating what scientists are allowed to say, ruling with a small council, describing yourself as the only person who can save everyone, and now using the military to round up undesirables ARE trademark steps taken by almost EVERY dictator that has risen to power since the inception of civilisation. It's up to you to interpret if you think this is just a coincedence.
    I'd agree with you if the Free Press, Scientists and so forth are not bias as fuck trying to throw out the government simply because it leans a different way. Trump regulates none of these, he simply ignores them. It's up to scientists to back up their opinions and push the weight into the public, not for Government to strong arm their theories no matter the choice, that's how we get all the food regulation bans that become retarded and outdated in 2 years.

  7. #387
    Scarab Lord TwoNineMarine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daelak View Post
    You can disagree all you like but this has happened multiple times over the years where nativist language/propaganda has been used to propel a person into power. They promise to be tough on border security and deportation, ramp up the recruitment of border/deportation agents, they aren't vetted due to the political and expedient nature the politician wants it to be completed, border/deportation agents are felonious and engage in unethical behavior, immigrants move from cities where deportation agents are rife with corruption, those cities go through a major recession, next election cycle comes, the past politician is voted out, immigration budgets go back to normal levels, immigrants return to the cities and the economy rebounds.
    Not quite sure what that has to do with what we are talking about.

    Never has a President (as far as I'm aware) booted out all the illegal folk whilst simultaneously implementing a program that requires you to work or not receive any government assistance whatsoever.

    Perhaps Obama did it and I completely spaced it.

    My overall point is one: I feel we need to boot these folks out. And two: We need to implement a program that makes it where you have to work (perhaps in one of the newly vacated jobs left by the illegals) or end up not getting any help from the government.

    I suppose another point might be that Americans NEED to get over their belief that they need to get paid $30 an hour right out of high school. Americans turn down jobs left and right because it's gross or entails manual labor. That's a crock of shit. No one is above doing difficult work. I've done a lot of shitty jobs and was grateful for all of em because it provided me a paycheck and allowed me to support myself and my family.
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  8. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natureapex View Post
    Using the National Guard to arrest criminals is facist now?
    Now? No, it was in October:

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...rolled-police/

    Now it means Trump is our savior:

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...deal-violence/

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    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    Hey guys, you know what happense in the 1800's totally applies today!
    Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  9. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by alexw View Post
    To be honest I never thought this would go through after reading the article. He'd be blocked one way or another. Rather, the issue is it shows exactly the sort of thinking going on inside the Trump white house. This is fascism plain and simple. Armed military conducting raids and round-ups of civilians. Democracies don't do this sort of thing. Not if they want to stay democracies. It shows the Trump end game and where we are headed if they gain enough power and can override our system of checks and balances. A fascist state.
    How else do you propose we round up the 11 million foreign invaders within our territory?

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post

    Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
    That blanket statement doesn't apply especially when the economics 200 years ago are vastly different than today. But if you want to go tit for tat, then we should learn what happens when illegal immigration goes out of control through the eyes of the American Indian.

  11. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoNineMarine View Post
    I suppose another point might be that Americans NEED to get over their belief that they need to get paid $30 an hour right out of high school. Americans turn down jobs left and right because it's gross or entails manual labor. That's a crock of shit. No one is above doing difficult work. I've done a lot of shitty jobs and was grateful for all of em because it provided me a paycheck and allowed me to support myself and my family.
    No, unless you are a business that wants the same employee conditions as China and India. We do not need to lower American standards because you are greatful you could afford to support your family, but demonize those that want to do the same, by equating them with Highschool kids that want to be paid 30$ an hour. The issue is people thinking they are a special snowflake, while everyone else doesn't try hard enough.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
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  12. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natureapex View Post
    I'd agree with you if the Free Press, Scientists and so forth are not bias as fuck trying to throw out the government simply because it leans a different way. Trump regulates none of these, he simply ignores them. It's up to scientists to back up their opinions and push the weight into the public, not for Government to strong arm their theories no matter the choice, that's how we get all the food regulation bans that become retarded and outdated in 2 years.
    All democratic leaders face opposition from different media sources, they are supposed to. Media is allowed to be biased, that's what free press is all about. But only autocratic leaders attack the media for this, and the step from discrediting and verbally attacking is not far away from shutting down. He wants to make it possible for the government to sue the media for speaking up against the government, remember? One of his campaign promises.

    He is telling governmental institutions to hide their work from the public because their research conflicts with the interests of the fossil fuel industry. The governments work is and has to be public information.

  13. #393
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    That blanket statement doesn't apply especially when the economics 200 years ago are vastly different than today. But if you want to go tit for tat, then we should learn what happens when illegal immigration goes out of control through the eyes of the American Indian.
    Yes, it doesn't apply, but if it does, we need to discuss battle of Little Bighorn... let's just hope these illegal immigrants don't set up colonies in the east. Brilliant!
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
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  14. #394
    it's illegal to throw illegal immigrants out of a country like america

    america is greatest in world, they should share already

  15. #395
    Scarab Lord TwoNineMarine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    No, unless you are a business that wants the same employee conditions as China and India. We do not need to lower American standards because you are greatful you could afford to support your family, but demonize those that want to do the same, by equating them with Highschool kids that want to be paid 30$ an hour. The issue is people thinking they are a special snowflake, while everyone else doesn't try hard enough.
    American standard? Of what? Working hard.

    There is no issues with the being the trash guy, or working at a convenience store, or harvesting food. Yet people demonize those jobs and feel they are above them. It's bullshit.

    Americans need to get over this sense of entitlement they feel in regards to doing those types of jobs. It's pathetic.

    If you feel people doing those sorts of jobs = lowering American standards then I don't know what to tell you.

    Also it's not a matter of employee working conditions. You can easily do all those sorts of jobs and keep up good working conditions.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.” - General James Mattis

  16. #396
    The Insane Daelak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natureapex View Post
    So your alternative is a lacklustre defense against unchecked immigration that causes even more depression of wages and causes crime to surge. You know what, I will give you a little homework. Look at the college enrollment of Lations over the years. You'll be surprised how they thrive when Illegal immigration is curbed.

    Illegal Immigration helps nobody.
    Like I said earlier, the US already has the most robust border protection and immigration vetting apparatus on the planet. Crime isn't surging, and immigration benefits the US economy, it has since ratification. College enrollment has been increasing for decades.

    Illegal immigration is an inevitability and a huge net positive to the country. We should be elated that people risk life and limb for a chance to work in the US.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    Hey guys, you know what happense in the 1800's totally applies today!




    That is bullshit, read a history book now and then, also stop trying to turn this into a race thread.
    He wrongly said there was a vetting and naturalization process in the 1800s on the west coast.

    No it's not bullshit, black migration has a wildly different history from other immigration waves due to the disgustingly amount of discrimination and isolation they received compared to others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoNineMarine View Post
    Not quite sure what that has to do with what we are talking about.

    Never has a President (as far as I'm aware) booted out all the illegal folk whilst simultaneously implementing a program that requires you to work or not receive any government assistance whatsoever.

    Perhaps Obama did it and I completely spaced it.

    My overall point is one: I feel we need to boot these folks out. And two: We need to implement a program that makes it where you have to work (perhaps in one of the newly vacated jobs left by the illegals) or end up not getting any help from the government.

    I suppose another point might be that Americans NEED to get over their belief that they need to get paid $30 an hour right out of high school. Americans turn down jobs left and right because it's gross or entails manual labor. That's a crock of shit. No one is above doing difficult work. I've done a lot of shitty jobs and was grateful for all of em because it provided me a paycheck and allowed me to support myself and my family.
    It's never happened because it is impossible. The last example during the Bush Administration where they more than doubled the amount of CBP agents it became mired in corruption and unethical activity, which caused an immigration exodus to other states and cities where their resources weren't localized, causing severe recessions in the southwestern states.

    There are not enough Americans to do the jobs in which the immigrants do. They would simply disappear and there would be a recession for years, if not a decade due to lost profits and production, lost investment opportunity.

    It has nothing to do with belief or some platitude towards your work ethic; it's simple economics. Remove the supply of the skilled and unskilled immigrant labor, you will cause massive volatility and loss in GDP. It would hurt the country.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    There is a problem, but I know just banning guns will fix the problem.

  17. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by Daelak View Post
    He wrongly said there was a vetting and naturalization process in the 1800s on the west coast.

    No it's not bullshit, black migration has a wildly different history from other immigration waves due to the disgustingly amount of discrimination and isolation they received compared to others.
    Having a different history doesn't turn his bullshit statement into facts, I am well aware that blacks suffered more discrimination than other races but that is no reason to fabricate outright lies.

  18. #398
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoNineMarine View Post
    American standard? Of what? Working hard.
    Yes, we work longer and more hours than anyone else. Which includes those wanting 30$ an hour out of Highschool, not just you.

    There is no issues with the being the trash guy, or working at a convenience store, or harvesting food. Yet people demonize those jobs and feel they are above them. It's bullshit.
    You do know that a garbage man pays very, very, very well? In NYC the entire garbage collection hiring process was controlled by the mob, due to the value of the job. The above is your pejorative opinions of these jobs, not mine. With "trash guy" specifically, it's a high demand job, despite being on your list... because it pays enouph to support their families... just like yours.

    If there is nothing wrong with a harvesting job. Could you work it for current pay and support your family?

    Americans need to get over this sense of entitlement they feel in regards to doing those types of jobs. It's pathetic.
    You need to get over demonizing Americans, so you cannot toss American living standards under the bus. If I wanted working conditions of China or India, I wouldn't be living in US. If you think Americans have it too good, get the fuck out. Your sense of entitlement makes no sense, when Americans work the longest hours of just about every country. We take the least amount of vacation or sick leave... maybe... just maybe... you are the same as those Highschool kids that want to support their families. Maybe, just maybe, you are expressing a pejorative and counter to reality perspective of Americans? You think Americans feel entitled, get the fuck out... You can confuse the greatness and power of America with entitlement, while not enjoying the lifestyle it affords you.

    If you feel people doing those sorts of jobs = lowering American standards then I don't know what to tell you.
    How about you tell me how much it costs to support your family. Then we can see the sort of pay increase justified by even moving to current minimum wage. Then explain to me, the sort of pay increase you will need to justify increasing prices in produce. Then perhaps tell me how much corn we can grow instead of all other farming product, because at least that receives massive subsidies that might justify the cost increase. Explain to me how are farms will be fine and how your pay check will not lose purchasing power, while prices spike.

    We don't need to have these jobs, because we enjoy the position of being the sole superpower in the world. We are not a developing nation that will take a loaf of bread and call it supporting their family, while having suicide nets to remind everyone how great these jobs are. We are too powerful and too wealthy to stoop to those levels. Just because you have a need to be divisive and don't appreciate America, doesn't mean Americans need to pretend we are a third world country.

    Also it's not a matter of employee working conditions. You can easily do all those sorts of jobs and keep up good working conditions.
    Have you seen their profit margins? No, they cannot, without directly and negative impacting every single American. You are nit a special snowflake, that gets to pretend your special and that you are not included in the impact that results from this. You are not special because you want to support your family and they want 30$ an hour out of college. Until you can understand you are the same... you will have your side and they will have theirs.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by TwoNineMarine View Post
    American standard? Of what? Working hard.

    There is no issues with the being the trash guy, or working at a convenience store, or harvesting food. Yet people demonize those jobs and feel they are above them. It's bullshit.

    Americans need to get over this sense of entitlement they feel in regards to doing those types of jobs. It's pathetic.

    If you feel people doing those sorts of jobs = lowering American standards then I don't know what to tell you.

    Also it's not a matter of employee working conditions. You can easily do all those sorts of jobs and keep up good working conditions.
    How dare people want to do specific jobs! Also, wasn't it the right that demonizes jobs? "$15 for flipping burgers, LOL!"
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  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by TwoNineMarine View Post
    American standard? Of what? Working hard.

    There is no issues with the being the trash guy, or working at a convenience store, or harvesting food. Yet people demonize those jobs and feel they are above them. It's bullshit.

    Americans need to get over this sense of entitlement they feel in regards to doing those types of jobs. It's pathetic.

    If you feel people doing those sorts of jobs = lowering American standards then I don't know what to tell you.

    Also it's not a matter of employee working conditions. You can easily do all those sorts of jobs and keep up good working conditions.
    It has to do a lot with the societal belief that people in the service and labor parts of of the job market are the absolute bottom rung of working class society.

    You could pay a team of custodians $30/HR each to take care of the mall and they would still be judged as lesser for being the person that cleans up after them. And that's sad because people forget that things like malls, movie theaters and sporting stadiums are pipe dreams without a staff dedicated to upkeep.

    But, hey. Robots are coming. So, no having to learn respect.

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