Next French President Has Balls!

[Tijuana]

Also Trudeau.

^^This guy just won the internet. Everyone go home. The game is over.

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FFS, ban political threads.

FFS, stop reading them if you don't like them. I don't even...

[tankbug]

BAM!!!

Godwin's Law on the first page!

Are you surprised? This thread is about extreme right-wing politicians in a turbulent time, not waffle recipes or something like that.

[Underverse]

I wonder how many are actually aware that the whole "cover your hair"-crap spawned from Christianity. <.<

It doesn't matter. The history here is largely irrelevant. What matters is the contemporary behaviors.

[Rooflesstoofless]

"She knew she was required a veil before she left, so why would she travel there, and then turn him down in front of the cameras"

Seems Americans have severe lack of intelligence when it comes to putting the pieces together when it comes to a true act of resentment towards certain customs that may or may not oppress women, vs one that was a pure political move in order to gain more voters.

Also, I have enough brain cells, probably by the looks of your stupidity, more than your entire family combined. Thank you very much.

Because turning them down in front of cameras sends the point home better than a text message?

[Elba]

She did the right thing.
Stop pretending their culture and way of living is even remotely as respectable as western culture.

Western culture? You mean like genocide, holocaust, colonization, chattel slavery, eugenics, race theory, communism, capitalism, corporatism, fascism, crusades, inquisition, wars over recourses, overthrowing democratically elected leaders, arming extremists, drone strikes, nuclear strikes, hunting to extinction, pollution, relentless consumption etc etc

Don't pretend our shit don't stink.

[Deleted]

Hofer had a shot because he was really soft-spoken, well mannered, the perfect son-in-law. That was the only strategy that worked, and ultimatley it wasn't enough.
Le Pen will face similar problems. If she wants to win she needs the conservatives, and again I mean the real conservatives, and the will not be happy with this kind of behaviour (not because the like the headscarf/imam/islam, but because it isn't presidential)

Exactly, that is also what I adressed in the other thread regarding this topic a while ago.
The votes of their core voterbase are simply not enough in such cases, and so Le Pen will - just as Hofer did - have to also get others to vote for her. Hofer managed to do so because he was somewhat "tame" for coming from the FPÖ, or at least managed to build an image that made it seem like he is. He managed to position himself somewhat as an actual alternative for those that did not want to vote for VdB.
Le Pen does not necessarily have this luxury; it is well known that she is more radical/extreme than Hofer when it comes to a lot of topics. That possibly makes her more preferable for those who lean in her direction anyway, but it makes it harder for her to also pull in the votes of centrists/conservatives.

Also, as you said, this election is not that comparable to Trump in the first place because of the difference in how the systems work. Thus, saying that Le Pen will win because Trump did too is very short-sighted.

[Vargur]

I can't believe I'm going to say this in an Orlong thread... but he kind of has a point. Those pictures of Hillary and Michelle piss me off.

He doesn't. IT'S NOT THEIR COUNTRIES, OK?
They banned the scarf in France, they can't ban it in OTHER COUNTRIES TOO, they have to RECIPROCATE and respect the fucking culture, no matter how much you hate it.

[Rooflesstoofless]

it's nice if you want positive results.

you can go to a job interview unwashed and in dirty clothes if you want, but probably won't get super good results.
technically discrimination? sure. got a job/trade deal/diplomatic relations? no.

So who failed who? Last time I checked France needs the Middle East about as much as a tumor needs malignancy.

[Underverse]

Western culture? You mean like genocide, holocaust, colonization, chattel slavery, eugenics, race theory, communism, capitalism, corporatism, fascism, crusades, inquisition, wars over recourses, overthrowing democratically elected leaders, arming extremists, drone strikes, nuclear strikes, hunting to extinction, pollution, relentless consumption etc etc

Don't pretend our shit don't stink.

Oh it does for sure. But one can condemn these kinds of behaviors while also condemning the negative behaviors of other cultures. I don't think too many contemporary Westerners actually engage in many of the behaviors you listed; on the other hand, engagement in certain detrimental aspects of Middle Eastern cultures is almost ubiquitous.

[JohnBrown1917]

Your stance is actually ultra-conservative. Very similar to what the opinion of middle-eastern conservative muslims would be. Or cavemen for that matter.

He thinks MMO-C has a lot 'ultra left' posters, that alone says enough.
Bet he thinks some of the center/center right voters around here are 'ultra left'.

[Underverse]

He doesn't. IT'S NOT THEIR COUNTRIES, OK?
They banned the scarf in France, they can't ban it in OTHER COUNTRIES TOO, they have to RECIPROCATE and respect the fucking culture, no matter how much you hate it.

No, they don't have to do anything. If their custom was to stone children to death to celebrate diplomatic relations, a visiting leader would not have to - and I might even say should not - engage in that activity.

[Kiri]

He thinks MMO-C has a lot 'ultra left' posters, that alone says enough.
Bet he thinks some of the center/center right voters around here are 'ultra left'.

I am not sure he even realizes what left and right mean in other countries in this context. I vote center right almost exclusively but would be painted a leftist by him, I think.

[Mayhem]

No, they don't have to do anything. If their custom was to stone children to death to celebrate diplomatic relations, a visiting leader would not have to - and I might even say should not - engage in that activity.

Why even try to use comparable things when you can jump to stoning children instead, right?

[Deleted]

So who failed who? Last time I checked France needs the Middle East about as much as a tumor needs malignancy.

i dunno. france visited lebanon, presumably it was for a reason that benefits france in some way or another.

it's right next to syria and israel so i imagine open sea space, air space and pipeline agreements are something france values and that lebanon can bargain a little bit with.

[Underverse]

Why even try to use comparable things when you can jump to stoning children instead, right?

I'm just making the point that facets of culture should not be respected simply by nature of being a facet of culture. Each cultural item should be examined and its worth determined.

[Deleted]

What the fuck are you even talking about? Divorce, property rights, care of children - none are covered by Lebanese civil code. Most laws are administered in religious courts. Want to guess the "liberality" of a divorce proceeding in front of an Islamic judge in Lebanon? If you're going to continue insulting the mind of others, I would suggest you at least attempt to show traces of one yourself.

Wtf are YOU talking about..... like I said (a few time now.....) half the lebanon population is christian....

Do you know there is islamic religious court in the UK? Are you telling me everybody in the UK have to submit to those "courts" ? GTFO..... Christian dont go in front of an islamic judge to divorce. If muslims decide to submit to that shit, that's their problem. If muslim womans are forced to submit to this, this is bad on every f'ing level....

[Kiri]

I'm just making the point that facets of culture should not be respected simply by nature of being a facet of culture. Each cultural item should be examined and its worth determined.

But doesn't that result in only caring about the cultural items that affect one personally, most of the time? I mean there are certainly more things that this lady could have criticized. But she chose this one and did not send any strong message about others. Why? Dunno. Likely because doing so sends signals like 'feminist', 'has balls', 'doesn't buckle down to them muslims'. It definitely seems more like a publicity stunt to me than a thought-provoking rebellion. Which ultimately is not examining a cultural item for its intrinsic worth, just for the worth placed on it by people not directly involved.

[tankbug]

Women are forced to cover their hair, face, bodies, because they are women. It is sexist, and only the tip of the iceberg.

Left wing women adhere to this, see it as sexist but believe that "when in Rome."

Right wing asshole woman comes in and says "Screw you, cover your own damn face."

Left wing claim right wing woman isn't a feminist. Would Donald Trump cover his hair and face? Should women be treated equally? Our strong, independent women do not lose their strength because they are in Rome. They stand for equal rights. The left are hypocrites, because even though they like what she did, they hate her as a person(most likely because the party has painted her negatively). You've drunk the cool-aid if you don't think this was empowering for women.

The right wing works for women to stay at home, raising children and doing housework.
The right wing wants to deny women contraception and abortions.
The right wing wants to force women into conservative clothing.
The right wing wants to deny women the right to marry other women.
The right wing wants to raped women to blame themselves if they were drunk or dressed sexy.

I can go on, but I think I've made my point. The right (conservative!) does not want independent, strong women living their lives as they please. They want obedient, pretty girls that are able to raise a lot of children for them.

Now, you are mixing up the left here. You have the normal left, who don't want to offend anyone, including muslims when visiting their country. Then you have the radical left that punches nazies, and will like to see the muslim clergy getting eliminated as much as the far right.

[-Nurot]

I can't believe I'm going to say this in an Orlong thread... but he kind of has a point. Those pictures of Hillary and Michelle piss me off.

Because these are different right?




Not to mention she's comparing herself to Michelle Obama.

Le Pen compared her refusal to wear the headscarf to the decision by former US First Lady Michelle Obama to decline wearing one during her state visit to Saudi Arabia.

Then again she wasn't pushing for woman's rights, Lebanon does not require headscarves. She was trying to excite her base with her same old Anti-Islam message she's been on about. She was even informed before hand that she would be required to wear a headscarf in front of their country's grand mufti, the highest Islam leader in the country. Instead when she was offered one she just walked back out to her vehicle. I understand that she doesn't respect their religion, but don't agree to meet with a religious leader (or use a visit walk out for political gain) if your not going to respect their traditions.

Now she can play the victim card, and this will dominate the news, excite her base, and potentially overshadow her current scandal.

[Underverse]

But doesn't that result in only caring about the cultural items that affect one personally, most of the time? I mean there are certainly more things that this lady could have criticized. But she chose this one and did not send any strong message about others. Why? Dunno. Likely because doing so sends signals like 'feminist', 'has balls', 'doesn't buckle down to them muslims'. It definitely seems more like a publicity stunt to me than a thought-provoking rebellion. Which ultimately is not examining a cultural item for its intrinsic worth, just for the worth placed on it by people not directly involved.

I think this argument is a stretch. Which other cultural facets could she have examined? And is it possible that she did consider some other cultural obligations, but only really found this one to be objectionable? Wearing a hijab is an act that requires planning and thought, so going without one is energetically favorable. The same can be said for attending prayer. On the other hand, going out of one's way to break a tradition is energetically unfavorable; many more cultural facets fall into this category, rather than the former category.

I agree that it probably was a publicity stunt, though. Still, I think it's kind of sad that something like this is even able to be a publicity stunt. Women should not be obligated to wear hijabs if they want to step foot inside a Middle-Eastern country without being harassed.