1. #1

    Assasination Opener with DoS

    Garrote, Mutilate, Rupture...Mutilate to 5cp, Vanish, Rupture, Vendetta, Mutilate/Kingsbane to drain some energy, DoS.

    Any improvements to make? Possibly DoS before Vendetta to maximize uses?

  2. #2
    You will want for Vendetta to end before using DoS

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Designguru View Post
    You will want for Vendetta to end before using DoS

    Why would you do that? Sure, Vendetta doesn't boost DoS's damage, but if you drain your energy by enough it doesn't seem like you'd lose anything using it during Vendetta.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Greylan View Post
    Why would you do that? Sure, Vendetta doesn't boost DoS's damage, but if you drain your energy by enough it doesn't seem like you'd lose anything using it during Vendetta.
    Why would you not use abilities that benefit from vendetta until the buff is gone? Get in a 5 cp envenom right as the vendetta timer is ending, and then pop DoS since Surge of Toxins improves Agonizing Poison which will improve DoS
    MY X/Y POKEMON FRIEND CODE: 1418-7279-9541 In Game Name: Michael__

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Symphonic View Post
    Why would you not use abilities that benefit from vendetta until the buff is gone? Get in a 5 cp envenom right as the vendetta timer is ending, and then pop DoS since Surge of Toxins improves Agonizing Poison which will improve DoS
    Yeah and good job wasting 20 seconds+ of your DoS's cooldown. It doesn't matter if vendetta doesn't buff DoS, you still do it during vendetta because energy pooling is a natural part of the rotation, you will use the pooled energy right after DoS ends and during vendetta, you lose nothing. The reason why you don't do it before vendetta is because you want to get your vanish rupture vendetta up ASAP, and most times you wont have 5 stacks of AP before that.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeclipse View Post
    Yeah and good job wasting 20 seconds+ of your DoS's cooldown. It doesn't matter if vendetta doesn't buff DoS, you still do it during vendetta because energy pooling is a natural part of the rotation, you will use the pooled energy right after DoS ends and during vendetta, you lose nothing. The reason why you don't do it before vendetta is because you want to get your vanish rupture vendetta up ASAP, and most times you wont have 5 stacks of AP before that.
    I guess my biggest suggestion is to use DoS AFTER envenom, no matter what.
    MY X/Y POKEMON FRIEND CODE: 1418-7279-9541 In Game Name: Michael__

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Symphonic View Post
    Why would you not use abilities that benefit from vendetta until the buff is gone? Get in a 5 cp envenom right as the vendetta timer is ending, and then pop DoS since Surge of Toxins improves Agonizing Poison which will improve DoS
    Except, you can still use the same amount of vendetta-boosted abilities as you would without using DoS. From what I understand auto attacks continue during DoS channel, so you don't even lose those.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Greylan View Post
    Except, you can still use the same amount of vendetta-boosted abilities as you would without using DoS. From what I understand auto attacks continue during DoS channel, so you don't even lose those.
    Not trying to deny what you're saying, but how much energy would one gain with heroism up and bleeds proccing, granting energy back? I mean, I guess it's only a 3 second cast.
    MY X/Y POKEMON FRIEND CODE: 1418-7279-9541 In Game Name: Michael__

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Symphonic View Post
    Not trying to deny what you're saying, but how much energy would one gain with heroism up and bleeds proccing, granting energy back? I mean, I guess it's only a 3 second cast.
    not enough to overcap if you use it right

    if you use it after your 2nd envenom (IE garrote mut rupture, mut mut vanish rupture vendetta mut KB envenom mut mut envenom DOS) then you're at like 40 energy, it'll take more than 3 seconds to get to 170 :P

    all you're losing is envenom and SoT dropping for 1-2 seconds

  10. #10
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    not enough to overcap if you use it right

    if you use it after your 2nd envenom (IE garrote mut rupture, mut mut vanish rupture vendetta mut KB envenom mut mut envenom DOS) then you're at like 40 energy, it'll take more than 3 seconds to get to 170 :P

    all you're losing is envenom and SoT dropping for 1-2 seconds
    This is how I have been doing it, it bothers me that you do get some SoT downtime and the next garrote feels late to re-apply pandemic wise but otherwise it's fine and you fix yourself within a few seconds... is it optimal? I'm not sure.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Isotopes View Post
    This is how I have been doing it, it bothers me that you do get some SoT downtime and the next garrote feels late to re-apply pandemic wise but otherwise it's fine and you fix yourself within a few seconds... is it optimal? I'm not sure.
    it is, sing it sooner would either affect your energy or your vendetta uptime, using it later would be just wasting its cd

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    not enough to overcap if you use it right

    if you use it after your 2nd envenom (IE garrote mut rupture, mut mut vanish rupture vendetta mut KB envenom mut mut envenom DOS) then you're at like 40 energy, it'll take more than 3 seconds to get to 170 :P

    all you're losing is envenom and SoT dropping for 1-2 seconds
    That's what I've been doing too.

    Garrote, Mutilate, Rupture, Mutilate spam to 5/6CP + FoK if needed to 6 with Vendetta to refill, Vanish, Rupture, Mutilate to 4CP+, Envenom, DoS, KB

    The only issue is that your last or couple last ticks of KB won't be buffed by Vendetta. So the ideal is to be able to fit Vendetta just after the Vanish Rupture (can happen if you crit on your Mutilates that build up vanish rupture), that way it'll last long enough to buff the whole KB:

    Garrote, Mutilate, Rupture, Mutilate x2, Vanish, Rupture, Vendetta, Mutilate to 4CP+, Envenom, DoS, KB

    This can basically only happen when Lusting on pull, obviously.
    Signatures in 2018 LUL

  13. #13
    I've consistently found this to be the best opener with DoS + shoulders + Subterfuge:




    Garrote > Mut > Rupture > Mut > Vendetta + Envenom > Kingsbane > Mut > Vanish + Envenom > Mut > Envenom > Mut > Draught > Envenom > Mut > (wait for buffed Garrote to expire) > Garrote > Envenom > Mut to 4/5 CP > Rupture

    It seems really complicated, but it basically boils down to "don't waste CP and use biggest spells during the crit buff". Ends up working almost perfectly, we get Kingsbane, DoS, and 4 Envenoms in the 100% crit buff, refresh Garrote right as it expires, refresh the Rupture right as it's expiring, and only waste a max of 1-2 CP (when you use Mut at 3 CP right before the Vanish). There's no RNG either, it's perfectly consistent. I can do the first 25 seconds exactly like that every time and it will work. If I get a BotA and Poison Bomb proc it's easily a 2M+ opener, about 1.4-1.7M otherwise.

    FWIW, I'm a gnome, but I don't think the extra 8 energy makes a huge difference.
    Last edited by Won7on; 2017-02-24 at 05:13 PM.
    Ankleshanker, 110 Rogue, Aerie Peak US

  14. #14
    doing the same as won7on, but using dos after vanish envenom cuz u have 5cp sot on target, after muti envenom x2 and muti and shoulder buff expires, then u have a couple of seconds of ticking kingsbane and 4 cp, im using garrote envenom and then mutilate to 4/5 to get rupture refreshed and pool energy after, you can start to pool when u use garrote, if u need to move or switch or smth :P

  15. #15
    I usually do Gar > Mut > Rupture > Mut > Mut > Vendetta/Vanish/Rupture > Mut > Mut(Sometimes this one isn't necessary, depends on crits) > Kingsbane > Envenom > Kingsbane > Mut > Mut > DoS > Envenom and then carry on with the rotation as normal.

    No real reason to delay DoS until after Vendetta ends because you're just pooling energy at that point anyway so it fits in pretty nicely there I've found. The timings on bleeds can be a little tight but it's never really a problem. I'd change it if I had legendary shoulders though because you'd need to make sure you fit DoS in during the crit buff, also since I have legendary cloak I usually FoK in the opener somewhere since I usually end up at 4 combo points somewhere in the rotation.

  16. #16
    Deleted
    First of All u dont really play Dos unless u get the shoulders so u get the 100%, in this case u go Subterforge for 9 sec 100% after ur vanish.
    The rotation used by many( including Musclebrah No1 Eu Mythic+ rogue) would be:

    POT>garotte>mut>rupture>mut>envenom>KB>mut>vendetta+vanish>garotte(for the subterforge 125% increase)>envenom>mut>DOS>envenom

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Abuse13 View Post
    First of All u dont really play Dos unless u get the shoulders so u get the 100%, in this case u go Subterforge for 9 sec 100% after ur vanish.
    The rotation used by many( including Musclebrah No1 Eu Mythic+ rogue) would be:

    POT>garotte>mut>rupture>mut>envenom>KB>mut>vendetta+vanish>garotte(for the subterforge 125% increase)>envenom>mut>DOS>envenom
    This is wrong. DoS is better even without the shoulders

  18. #18
    Deleted
    Sorry not even close, if u count the extra agility from another trinket, 880 Dos isnt better then an 890 Nightblooming Fond without shoulders. As i was saying this is a statement from Musclebrah currently 1 EU Mythic Plus Score. streaming daily on his channel. U might want to check his Logs. NF is inconsistent on fights like Guldan or Elissande but puts up mostly almost 4,5 %-5% in fights like Krosus Staraugur while Dos without Shoulders barely brings 6%. ( here to consider a 2k Agi loss u will have the picture).

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Abuse13 View Post
    Sorry not even close, if u count the extra agility from another trinket, 880 Dos isnt better then an 890 Nightblooming Fond without shoulders. As i was saying this is a statement from Musclebrah currently 1 EU Mythic Plus Score. streaming daily on his channel. U might want to check his Logs. NF is inconsistent on fights like Guldan or Elissande but puts up mostly almost 4,5 %-5% in fights like Krosus Staraugur while Dos without Shoulders barely brings 6%. ( here to consider a 2k Agi loss u will have the picture).
    I didn't say normal version is better than heroic.

    Here's a guy that runs both trinket on M-Krosus

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...true&source=22

    DoS is 5ilvl higher, with average recursive buff up time (5 procs on a 5:30 min fight). No shoulders

    This log is very average case.

    It did ~8.6 million more damage, 1343 extra agility is equivalent to about ~8.1 million dmg. Surprisingly both heroic trinket does about the same amount of damage with or without shoulders.

    Though you won't have to deal with RNG using DoS.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •