Enhancement on Anomaly

[ThePhantombox]

So, my gm said that enhancement shamans have issues with gcd's on anomaly when you lust during the fast phase. Apparently getting gcd locked causes your dps to go down. Is this true? I've never heard of this before. Also, does lusting during slow phase cancel out the slow?

[Imnick]

No idea to your first question, as to your second... the slow time phase reduces your haste and cooldown rate. Bloodlust only increases your haste, your cooldowns will still be longer (though the gcd won't be as long and also bloodlust will tick down slower, so I'm not sure overall how much effect that works out to).

So it doesn't completely cancel out the slow phase, although it still does increase your haste.

[Jotaux]

Your gcd adjusts to whatever phase the boss is in so its not even a consideration.

[Makaba88]

From my experience, lusting during the accelerated causes you to generate more maelstrom than you can spend. So your dps doesn't actually go down, you just reach a point where you can't dps any higher. For enhance, it's more beneficial to lust during his "normal phase" to maximize your dps.

[Jotaux]

From my experience, lusting during the accelerated causes you to generate more maelstrom than you can spend. So your dps doesn't actually go down, you just reach a point where you can't dps any higher. For enhance, it's more beneficial to lust during his "normal phase" to maximize your dps.

Except your cds and gcd adjust to the phase so if you are maelstrom capped in the fast phase you would have been capped in the slow phase.

[Phaty]

all i know is lusting during the fast phase turns me into a stormstriking nightmare

[Guran]

Except your cds and gcd adjust to the phase so if you are maelstrom capped in the fast phase you would have been capped in the slow phase.

That's only true untill you hit a 0.75s GCD (100% Haste) at which point it no longer seems to go down.

[Jotaux]

That's only true untill you hit a 0.75s GCD (100% Haste) at which point it no longer seems to go down.

The fast speed doesn't give you haste, it speeds up time, so if you are getting over 100% haste in the fast phase you would have gotten over 100% haste in the slow phase.

[EasymodeX]

Yeah, the main points surrounding BL in fast phase are these:

1. It's more likely for players' brains to function slower than the pace of the fight during a bloodlusted fast phase. Unusual Maelstrom overcapping will be caused primarily by player reaction times. This applies to all DPS regarding players not being able to press buttons or react fast enough to procs or resource spikes.

2. Damage intake from mechanics may be faster again due to slow player response times. Bloodlusted healers panicking can compensate for this.

3. There may be a fringe issue with UI functionality and lag for conditional abilities that are unable to be executed (depending on your addons). Even though the fight is accelerated, your network latency and *lag* is not reduced. Therefore latency will comprise a larger fraction of your time and cause a greater impact than during normal gameplay. This is exacerbated by BL.

This is why I generally advocate for BL during slow phase if you're looking for a stable fight, with the only counter-consideration for #2 above -- to provide extra healer throughput. Of course, DPS with fast phase BL are more likely to tunnel too hard on their buttons and take avoidable damage, so it's a tradeoff. If you're looking for parses, then BL during normal/fast seems optimal (probably normal).

[Guran]

The fast speed doesn't give you haste, it speeds up time, so if you are getting over 100% haste in the fast phase you would have gotten over 100% haste in the slow phase.

Well unless Blizzard broke a scientific barrier and ACTUALLY speeds up time, they'll be using the mechanics they have to simulate such an effect. The tooltip states that the everflowing changes in the flow of time affect casting, movement and attack speeds, as well as periodic effects and cooldowns. (Through server side scripts, as Wowhead tells us)
Considering movement speed, CDR & Haste are mechanics already in the game, it would be easy to simply reuse them. (magic resistance, defense & ArP are all still in the game code as well)
And as far as the GCD goes, it's hardcapped in the code as far as I can tell, as I've yet to experience(*) any massive Hasting buff to ignore the cap.
If an ability triggers the GCD, it'll always be 0.75s or longer. Considering Fast + lust = 69%(heh) Haste effect, you'ld need to have 18.35% Haste from rating to encounter the GCD cap on instant abilities.

(*)Single exception being a select few vehicles with a 0.5s CD on a machine gun style ability. But that was literally stated in the tooltip of that ability, so they may have opted to give it an ability-specific CD, without GCD-triggering. This is not the case on the Anomaly fight.


PS: If you do end up deciding to lust outside of the Fast phase, I'ld suggest doing it during Normal, preferably at the start, to maximize the total amount of damage you can gain from it. Lust during Fast may still provide more overall damage though, as it should act multiplicatively, thus granting "39%" boost before CD & GCD issues come into play.

[Jotaux]

Well unless Blizzard broke a scientific barrier and ACTUALLY speeds up time, they'll be using the mechanics they have to simulate such an effect. The tooltip states that the everflowing changes in the flow of time affect casting, movement and attack speeds, as well as periodic effects and cooldowns. (Through server side scripts, as Wowhead tells us)
Considering movement speed, CDR & Haste are mechanics already in the game, it would be easy to simply reuse them. (magic resistance, defense & ArP are all still in the game code as well)
And as far as the GCD goes, it's hardcapped in the code as far as I can tell, as I've yet to experience(*) any massive Hasting buff to ignore the cap.
If an ability triggers the GCD, it'll always be 0.75s or longer. Considering Fast + lust = 69%(heh) Haste effect, you'ld need to have 18.35% Haste from rating to encounter the GCD cap on instant abilities.

(*)Single exception being a select few vehicles with a 0.5s CD on a machine gun style ability. But that was literally stated in the tooltip of that ability, so they may have opted to give it an ability-specific CD, without GCD-triggering. This is not the case on the Anomaly fight.

PS: If you do end up deciding to lust outside of the Fast phase, I'ld suggest doing it during Normal, preferably at the start, to maximize the total amount of damage you can gain from it. Lust during Fast may still provide more overall damage though, as it should act multiplicatively, thus granting "39%" boost before CD & GCD issues come into play.

I very much doubt a lower than .75 second gcd is a scientific barrier. If you look at your cds, abilities, etc. the duration in the tooltips or on your buff bar all say the normal amount of time but if you actually time then they tick faster or slower than what it says. Your movement speed doesn't show as increased or decreased either. They are just speeding up or slowing game speed.

[Reviah]

Have you tried the "don't interrupt the boss channel during first ad and blow hero" strat?

Basically when the add comes out the boss stops attacking and channels... something (i dont know the ability name). After the big add dies, we blow heroism when the small adds are almost dead and just let the boss channel his ability and burn him down as far as we can. During this phase the aoe pulse the boss does will grow over time.

Once it gets to a point the healers cannot keep people above 40% before next pulse, we rotate healer cooldowns. For us its Tranq (seems to scale well with hero) then Devo, then my Revival. After that the tank interrupts the boss and you will enter the slow phase. For us, the boss is usually 30% or less at this point and most of the time we kill him at the end of slow phase. On heroic we do get to the fast phase, but because of the stand and burn in normal speed phase, he dies before the first time bombs go off.

I realize this does not answer your question, but this way you wouldn't have to worry about hero and the fast phase? lol

[Ghrog]

Have you tried the "don't interrupt the boss channel during first ad and blow hero" strat?

Basically when the add comes out the boss stops attacking and channels... something (i dont know the ability name). After the big add dies, we blow heroism when the small adds are almost dead and just let the boss channel his ability and burn him down as far as we can. During this phase the aoe pulse the boss does will grow over time.

Once it gets to a point the healers cannot keep people above 40% before next pulse, we rotate healer cooldowns. For us its Tranq (seems to scale well with hero) then Devo, then my Revival. After that the tank interrupts the boss and you will enter the slow phase. For us, the boss is usually 30% or less at this point and most of the time we kill him at the end of slow phase. On heroic we do get to the fast phase, but because of the stand and burn in normal speed phase, he dies before the first time bombs go off.

I realize this does not answer your question, but this way you wouldn't have to worry about hero and the fast phase? lol

This is the same way that our guild handles the encounter on Normal and Heroic nowadays (Actually got to the point where we kill him during the channel on both. We have some amazeballs healers and really solid DPS)

As for the OP. I haven't seen any issues when blowing lust during the fast phase except for my reflexes trying to keep up. Others speak true when they say the minimum GCD is actually reduced during fast phase because time itself is being changed. My abilities are coming out faster than 0.75 seconds when it hits. I could tell by looking at logs and counting the number of casts during the lust period, I did it because I was also concerned about this exact issue (before we swapped strats).

[Guran]

I very much doubt a lower than .75 second gcd is a scientific barrier. If you look at your cds, abilities, etc. the duration in the tooltips or on your buff bar all say the normal amount of time but if you actually time then they tick faster or slower than what it says. Your movement speed doesn't show as increased or decreased either. They are just speeding up or slowing game speed.

Hence the server-side script instead of active effects. Similarly, if hotfixes are enabled (server-side) your tooltip might still say A, while it effectively does B. Thus, tooltips are not an accurate representation of actual events server-side.

The OP asked if there is an issue with GCD locking during lust & Fast combined, I tried to explain it through mechanics currently in the game, which would be the most logical choice considering it's only a single fight in the entire game. All of the mechanics I'm talking about have been thouroughly tested either by me or other theorycrafters.
Speeding up the server clock for a single fight, as you suggest, is a tremendous undertaking programming-wise and would require a TON of testing internally to be able to push it out without anyone noticing any bugs or inconsistencies whatsoever.

But ofcourse you could always go find a log with lust & Fast showing someone that is casting GCD spells in a row clearly below the GCD threshold.
Untill then, I see no argument as to why Blizzard would not take the path of least resistance (read:effort) and grant you Haste, movement speed & CDR on the server-side only to simulate the time difference.


PS: The lust during first transition is a viable tactic indeed, we can bring it down to about 10-20% easily with 3 healers in a heroic group of around 14 (depending on the week) And it dies about 15s after we have to interrupt the casting.

[Jotaux]

Hence the server-side script instead of active effects. Similarly, if hotfixes are enabled (server-side) your tooltip might still say A, while it effectively does B. Thus, tooltips are not an accurate representation of actual events server-side.

The OP asked if there is an issue with GCD locking during lust & Fast combined, I tried to explain it through mechanics currently in the game, which would be the most logical choice considering it's only a single fight in the entire game. All of the mechanics I'm talking about have been thouroughly tested either by me or other theorycrafters.
Speeding up the server clock for a single fight, as you suggest, is a tremendous undertaking programming-wise and would require a TON of testing internally to be able to push it out without anyone noticing any bugs or inconsistencies whatsoever.

But ofcourse you could always go find a log with lust & Fast showing someone that is casting GCD spells in a row clearly below the GCD threshold.
Untill then, I see no argument as to why Blizzard would not take the path of least resistance (read:effort) and grant you Haste, movement speed & CDR on the server-side only to simulate the time difference.


PS: The lust during first transition is a viable tactic indeed, we can bring it down to about 10-20% easily with 3 healers in a heroic group of around 14 (depending on the week) And it dies about 15s after we have to interrupt the casting.

All that work and conjecture and you're still wrong

[Guran]

All that work and conjecture and you're still wrong

Atleast I put work into my statement.
Your best argument so far has been "Because it is"

[tanksin the enhance shamy]

i havnt really had any issues on this boss in heroic, im usually in top 5 for this boss fight maybe mythic is different

[sebax313]

i havnt really had any issues on this boss in heroic, im usually in top 5 for this boss fight maybe mythic is different

First post worth reading.

On mythic you pop hero on pull or during first Power Overwhelming.

But it should be on pull or very first seconds of it to kill adds by special small group.

Btw is it that hard to follow wordup??
Just watch damn video