Concordance of the Legionfall..see you next expansion...

[Deleted]

So Blizzards fix to some of the top end guilds and all the QQ from everyone else about the ap grind and the position you were in if you didn't max grind, was to ~double your primary stat based on a proc that (for most classes) will sky rocket your dmg. so now if we don't hit 50 traits...especially if you already aren't max is to increase the gap even more?

You will unlock the infinite trait fairly easy, at least if you regularly play. The power increase after you unlock it is quite small, and thats whats intended.

The goal will be to hurry to unlock the trait, which is fair, and then most people will stop actively bothering, since AK is rebalanced. Sure, let the top player have 1.5% more on the proc then me. I'm laughing my ass off and only grind 1/4th of them while waiting for AK to catch up.

Its a heavy nerf to the grind, not a buff.

Sure, the proc being a proc is somewhat troublesome. Formost tanks, primary stats aren#t that interesting, we are interested in dmg reduction and HP. primary stat gives dodge (in case of agi users) and parry (in case of strength), which is RNG based, on top of an already RNg based proc. Thats... bad. We really like to have predictable dmg reductions, not parrying some swings in a row and then getting the next few swings right in the face.

So the proc is what I'd complain about, not the fact that hey nerfed the grind considerably.

[RuneDK]

I see too much Diablo 3 in world of warcraft.....Diablo 3 works for me because I'll play it hard for about a month...then not play for a good time......While MMOs used to be this kind of game, I no longer have time to commit to that kind of gameplay....They're really locking you to one class and even worse for now, until the legendary fix is unveiled, a spec. At this point in time I'm more close to quitting an otherwise great expansion because they can't seem to get out of their own way than I am continuing this trend. I have other interests outside of wow. This expansion has left me literally no time for anything else, and quite frankly it's getting old. I'm not 19 with no responsibilities anymore.

[Achie]

I just laugh at the thought of 8.0, because every legion patch so far seems to be about Damage control, rather then improving the game.

Completely agree with this. This game is clearly still in beta phase.

Rofl omg,

I like how the three white responses say the exact same thing we're all saying, to them, immediately, before they even completed their post, and their three responses are "lol fuck you we know this is fucking anal for you all fuck you lol."

They even want to claim noticing an RNG proc and snapshotting it is an awesome goal.

This is the most rngish expansion, that has ever existed. Even the damage you deal is rng. Even the healing you'll deal is rng.

top kek, I wanted to see all you scrubs get wiped out of my game anyway. Go away you dirty shitstain elf players.

Also, this.

[RuneDK]

"need to"? only thing Im compelled to do is one mythic 15 per week, its an alt that i switched to as main recently, that started later than old main, never really had time to grind AP on him anyway, dont do WQs with him on any regular basis since december, dont raid NH/tov anymore, unless were going with social group to chillax and have fun... And Im at 51, almost 52 traits in mainspec and enough to get by in offspec, raid mythic NH with zero dps issues caused by lack of three traits (i can always improve my gameplay, that will be far better dps improvement anyway) with three legs and 4th so far away I see no reason to go farm it, it will come eventually anyway

But I can pace myself to not burn out, apparently plenty of people cant...

Im calling bullshit here, there's no mathematical way that you are almost 52 traits with not doing shit. I rerolled shaman from dk during EN, I am just getting to 50(a lot due to laziness) and I'm doing AP WQs at least 2-3 times a week of clearing out the board.

[rda]

How? The whole point is that the "grind" is non-existent if you just play the game and collect AP because there is no rush. It's the rush that makes people feel they need to grind.

The people saying ToS will be tuned around having a max-level artifact just seem out of touch with reality. Sure, mythic Nighthold probably was... but EN wasn't and neither was ToV. Blizzard screws plenty up, but they're not braindead - ToS isn't going to be tuned around it.

Got it.

First, you can't really "just play the game" and have no rush, because there is social pressure and competitiveness. I don't raid now, but I raided plenty before, and guilds that allow people to slack on gear aren't getting anywhere, they are in a constant state of trying to assemble a team yet losing players to guilds that force everyone to be "up to date". That's just how it is. (And mind you, I don't care at all about raids and about raiders, but I understand how this works - and those who are saying that they are forced to do these grinds are perfectly right - they are. By social pressure and competitiveness.)

Second, I get that you think AP increases will not be "required", because you think Blizzard "aren't that dumb", but they have been plenty dumb before, and, more importantly, I doubt they are seeing this the same as you are. It makes sense for them to up the difficulty so that grind is kind of, you know, a bit required. Not all of it, just some initial stages. To, you know, "give people something to do" (and have them keep paying a sub because they want to beat that boss after all before they unsub). They do things like that all the time - they are slowing everyone down everywhere. No flying, the first tier not even completely opened yet after 6 effing months, etc, etc, etc, you name it. It's everywhere. No idea why you think they won't tune bosses so that some of the grind is kind of required.

And, by the way, by "required", we don't mean "mathematically required". We mean "required" as in, you are unlikely to succeed with your average error rate without it. Probabilities.

[Glorious Leader]

When a game is driven on competition, then it's always going to be expected that you fight with the best chance and in this case, highest paragon traits. It's something blizzard still hasn't figured out, it doesn't matter how high they make the numbers... people will still burn themselves out trying to farm it, and since some top players have already done thousands of mythic + dungeons, it's very likely they'll farm another few thousand trying to get an edge over other players.

If blizzard would be smart, they would leave the AP increases as they were, but made them gated, ie you can only farm up to a certain point and then you have to wait til next month to get more traits. That way people can get ahead if they go ham, but people that are slower would eventually catch up by the time the next one unlocks.

The fundamental flaw in this argument is that game is not competition driven. Some players might be but i fail to see why literally everyone else has to be dragged along. I really dgaf that try hards are put out. Frankly thats a sign that the system works.

[IceMan1763]

Well, they replaced sub count with "MAUs". When these "MAUs" go down, they will replace them with something else - it shouldn't take long, let's wait and see if they will still have them in the next report.

Next report it will be total number of dungeons run... GEE I wonder why that went up?

Or perhaps they'll brag that total AP collected is the highest it's been in years.

[rda]

Next report it will be total number of dungeons run... GEE I wonder why that went up?

Or perhaps they'll brag that total AP collected is the highest it's been in years.

Means it is successful! Like Ashran was! Obviously the number went up because people enjoy doing dungeons a lot!

[bubbadubba]

Bad players blame not having gear for not being able to kill a boss. That is what you are doing. These top 250 players are killing these bosses in spite of the gear, not because of it. Sure they worked hard but it is not the gear that killed these bosses, it is the player. That is the lesson you should take away from it. Get better at your character and you will kill bosses too. No one is telling you not to grind if you want to grind. You just have to realise that you are bad before gear and you will be bad after gear if you dont take the time to understand your character and learn to play better. It is time for people to stop expecting to have all the toys right now. Blizzard doesn't expect you to so calm down.

I don't disagree that the top guilds need less gear to do content.

What I do disagree with is saying that those top 250 players are killing bosses without gear, that is not close to reality.

I was in a top 100 guild for a while and the amount of gear they force you to farm is stupid. They run 4-5 heroic runs and funnel the gear to mains, this means that those guilds rely on having set bonus' at the first week of Mythic. This also causes them to be better optimized then most people. These guilds also run 3-4 alts, One of the top tanks in the world was asked why he was playing that class, he simply said he did it because he got the right legendaries.

So you have to remember that though if you are bad before gear, you will be bad after gear works doesn't mean good players don't need gear. If you are a good player before gear, you will be still be a good player after gear but the numbers will be higher, thus making things easier.

That being said, people should not assume they should have everything, I agree with you on that, I just disagree with top players not needing gear.

[anaxie]

Holy shit lol they must be actively trying to kill their game. Then again they are finishing the story up next expacnsion probably so i think that is oddly their goal.

They are so fucking out of touch with the players its mind boggling.

Calling it now blizzcon 2017 "to much rng and grind so we dialed back on it.... now let me show you the new rng legendaries for 8.0. Now adding over 200!"

[Phookah]

All I'm seeing in this thread is kids/adults who have no impulse control and need an imposed cap on them so they don't "have to grind".

You don't have to grind, and if you play in a guild that would make you do so (and you think that would be unfun), then you need to get your priorities straight.

This is without even going into the fact that when caps have been placed on various forms of currency/methods of progression (Valor/Justice points/badges stonekeepers shards etc) in the past people get all up in arms about how now they feel the need to cap every week, or they're falling behind.

There's no winning with people who don't have self control.

[Vzz]

The issue you are describing is not the AP grind but the lousy Legendary system.

Yes, it is too. But obviously the almost 15% more dmg and more hp on capped weapon isn't something you can ignore while being in (even or only) semi-hardcore raiding guild. I used to log only for raids previous expansions. Now this is what I need to do besides. The carrot-on-a-stick system in it's greatness.

[rda]

All I'm seeing in this thread is kids/adults who have no impulse control and need an imposed cap on them so they don't "have to grind".

You don't have to grind, and if you play in a guild that would make you do so (and you think that would be unfun), then you need to get your priorities straight.

This is without even going into the fact that when caps have been placed on various forms of currency/methods of progression (Valor/Justice points/badges stonekeepers shards etc) in the past people get all up in arms about how now they feel the need to cap every week, or they're falling behind.

There's no winning with people who don't have self control.

Do you raid competitively? Because it looks like you are talking about things you don't understand.

I couldn't care less about raids and about raiders, but I understand their argument. Yes, they are forced to grind. For real. Same as PVPers are forced to grind AP, for example.

[Deleted]

can you please stop with this?
people dont become mythic raiders to grind AP all day

being a mythic raider is your choice, having to do all the shit that comes with it is blizzard's

Of course it's Blizzards, choice. It's their game. If you don't "want" to grind, then you cant be a Mythic raider. Simples. Why should Mythic raiding not have a grind that rewards powers most people wont/cant get unless they want to by the best......... Sounds like "I want to be better than everyone else but I want it now and I dont want to work for it" syndrome......... You get out of life what you put into it. Same with wow. Its the same reason a causal wont ever be the best in the world at wow.

[shaunika123]

Of course it's Blizzards, choice. It's their game. If you don't "want" to grind, then you cant be a Mythic raider. Simples. Why should Mythic raiding not have a grind that rewards powers most people wont/cant get unless they want to by the best......... Sounds like "I want to be better than everyone else but I want it now and I dont want to work for it" syndrome......... You get out of life what you put into it. Same with wow. Its the same reason a causal wont ever be the best in the world at wow.

except in life i dont have to "grind" for a law degree if i want to be a doctor

what does mythic raiding have to do with constantly farming 5man dungeons?

i WANT to put in the work, into you know... actually mythic raiding, currently you spend more time outside of raids than inside just so you can raid.

there's a reason a bunch of top tier raiding guilds are calling it quits you know, the AP grind is just fucking daunting

im only in a top ~100 guild but even for us it gets tiresome after a while

[anaxie]

All I'm seeing in this thread is kids/adults who have no impulse control and need an imposed cap on them so they don't "have to grind".

You don't have to grind, and if you play in a guild that would make you do so (and you think that would be unfun), then you need to get your priorities straight.

This is without even going into the fact that when caps have been placed on various forms of currency/methods of progression (Valor/Justice points/badges stonekeepers shards etc) in the past people get all up in arms about how now they feel the need to cap every week, or they're falling behind.

There's no winning with people who don't have self control.

You cant defend a system that between the rng gear and ap korean grind is going to single handedly kill the game.

How bout you go to the official forums on this trait? 11 pages of universal hate and disdain for the out of touch developers.

Frankly something like this kills me EVER coming back because you cant design a game with these people. They will always be fucking morons that need to be told hundreds of thousands of times the obvious.

Pvp is on life support right now. When the traits go active in pvp you can call it dead. This 50 po8nt trait? Say hello to the thing that will kill mythic


Ohwell atleast in 7.3 we get to go to hell to kill diablo and end the threat to Sanctuary

[Valech]

So Blizzards fix to some of the top end guilds and all the QQ from everyone else about the ap grind and the position you were in if you didn't max grind, was to ~double your primary stat based on a proc that (for most classes) will sky rocket your dmg. so now if we don't hit 50 traits...especially if you already aren't max is to increase the gap even more?

Would you give me your gold? I´d give it back to you when you silently come back next expansion. I swear!

[Deleted]

except in life i dont have to "grind" for a law degree if i want to be a doctor

what does mythic raiding have to do with constantly farming 5man dungeons?

i WANT to put in the work, into you know... actually mythic raiding, currently you spend more time outside of raids than inside just so you can raid.

there's a reason a bunch of top tier raiding guilds are calling it quits you know, the AP grind is just fucking daunting

im only in a top ~100 guild but even for us it gets tiresome after a while

You don't have to grind in uni to be a doctor?? So you don't have to do 5 years in Uni sitting in countless lectures, reading countless books, taking many tests, refining your knowledge and skills, then 2 years practicing to become a fully fledged doctor? 7 years isn't a grind?...... surely farming a bit of AP or AK for a few months isnt the end of the world if you want to be one of the best in the world?

I am flabbergasted at the sense of entitlement here where you believe you shouldn't have to work for something. If you took away any requirement to be a mythic raider anyone & everyone would be one. Maybe not a good mythic raider but a mythic raider none the less.

Also, maybe I am wrong but don't raid bosses drop AP? like lots?

[IceMan1763]

You get out of life what you put into it. Same with wow. Its the same reason a causal wont ever be the best in the world at wow.

Wow isn't life, it's a game. That most people play for fun.

Is a person who was a top parser in previous xpacs but only played 20-30 hours per week casual? Because that type of player doesn't exist now, and it's not because they suddenly became unskilled.

[rda]

You don't have to grind in uni to be a doctor??

He said that he doesn't have to grind *for a law degree* if he wants to be a doctor.

You missed the entire point.