Trump Rescinds Protections for Transgender Students

[Underverse]

Even having a constant debate about it rather than concrete proof makes it not an exact science. It is influenced by politics and lobbies.

Maybe the conclusions are. But the science - the data that is in the paper - is not. Unless they're lying, which happens very rarely due to the immense ramifications of being caught.

[Deleted]

Why aren't MTFs fine with going into men's restrooms? Why do they feel uncomfortable with men being around them?

Well, that's why.

Because there is an actual danger of them being harassed and attacked.

[Scathbais]

It happens all the time, unless you think women are raping transfolks.

Relevant statistic is that 47% of transfolk report being sexually assaulted in their lives.

Data from surveys like this suffer from both self selection bias and selection bias. The result is a nonprobabalistic sample (in other words no random selection). Thus the 47% is not significant or accurate. This is the same kind of bias that makes the 1/5 women sexually assaulted claim bogus as well.

[Blacktop Cadence]

Even having a constant debate about it rather than concrete proof makes it not an exact science. It is influenced by politics and lobbies.

And I'm sure you're more qualified than the folks at the APA or, regarding children, the AAP and ACOP. They just released a joint guide on trans kids for the general population.

The trans dude from earlier was right. This is dumb. It's like trying to argue with someone who believes fluoride is about mind control or vaccines cause autism. Waste of my time.

[Barnabas]

Well the thing is.

In the end both left and right "dream" of a perfect world reflecting their ideals.

Most people understand that skin color is no reason to hate each other.
They understand that we have to be respectful and love each other.

The thing they don't understand (and rightfully so) why the very ones who preach diversity, unification and love are the one who scream the loudest :

- HATE Trump
- HATE White people
- HATE White privilige
- HATE males

The current rise of right winged "supporters" are what those lefties created. Back in the days being liberal was about voting rights and equality. Now its about hate, chaos and privilige.

I think it's great they preach those things that lost them the last election. It'll keep the democrats out of office as long as they abandon progressiveness in favor of anger and vitriol lol

[ControlWarrior]

Who exactly has a problem with this? Just designate more gender neutral bathrooms if you want. It's all up to the states now.

[Deleted]

Maybe the conclusions are. But the science - the data that is in the paper - is not. Unless they're lying, which happens very rarely due to the immense ramifications of being caught.

SJW ideologies have zero foothold in real science like biology. It's black and white and there is no place for muh feelings. Not just chromosomes, but also things like failing to prove a difference in trans people when it comes to brain waves or structure.
Data gathered by psychologists can be heavily biased. Just like there is plenty of scientific evidence and statistics about how blacks have lower IQ. Do you also accept that as proof?

[Enthusiastic Steward]

No, of course they aren't. But that does not make it any less uncomfortable for other people. Promoting minority rights while you hurt the majority is kind of backwards.

The comment you paired the original statement I was responding to with made it seem that way.

Anyway, because of this I don't think comparing surgery rates makes for a good indicator.

I just said the disparity was interesting, I didn't claim it to be an indicator of anything.

[Belize]

So then, remove urinals from Mens rooms and install an extra Stall.

Boom, both mens and womens rooms have equal privacy.

I'm all for it. Urinals are generally terrible anyways. Having some guy trying to strike up a convo is not conductive to peeing anyways.

[Kathandira]

Most are probably like me. I dont want my young daughter to use a restroom that some grown ass man. Solely on the fact that he says he thinks he is a woman. Has nothing to do with a safe space for anyone other than a child.

So instead, you will have WTM Trans folks in the women's room with your daughter. They could even be WTM who fancy women! Might even be a WTM who fancy's little girls!

All the what if's...what will we do?

[Deleted]

The trans dude from earlier was right. This is dumb. It's like trying to argue with someone who believes fluoride is about mind control or vaccines cause autism. Waste of my time.

No, there is plenty of actual, chemical and biological proof about fluoride and vaccines being safe.
There is ZERO biological evidence about the existence of a separate gender besides the sex you are born with.

[Kathandira]

Why aren't MTFs fine with going into men's restrooms? Why do they feel uncomfortable with men being around them?

Well, that's why.

Because there are more cases of MTF Trans folks being harassed, or assaulted in men's rooms, than there are of "Men in wigs" raping little girls in women's rooms.

[Underverse]

SJW ideologies have zero foothold in real science like biology. It's black and white and there is no place for muh feelings. Not just chromosomes, but also things like failing to prove a difference in trans people when it comes to brain waves or structure.
Data gathered by psychologists can be heavily biased. Just like there is plenty of scientific evidence and statistics about how blacks have lower IQ. Do you also accept that as proof?

I don't hold any specifically social justice ideologies, and I'm not a social justice warrior. If the science says that African Americans have a lower IQ than other ethnic groups, I accept the science. As long as it was done in a rigorous fashion and correctly controlled, and as long as we're not overstating what IQ means.

I'm a biologist. I don't care about stepping on people's irrational feelings. At least, not the irrational feelings of forum-goers. I have sympathy for my friends.

- - - Updated - - -

Because there are more cases of MTF Trans folks being harassed, or assaulted in men's rooms, than there are of "Men in wigs" raping little girls in women's rooms.

On another note, if bathrooms were gender-neutral then fathers could guard their daughters if they're really paranoid.

[Bloodscore]

It's to the point where we need to have two bathrooms. One unisex each and they can have one occupant only. There will be lines but then no one can complain about who uses the bathroom.

[hakujinbakasama]

It's to the point where we need to have two bathrooms. One unisex each and they can have one occupant only. There will be lines but then no one can complain about who uses the bathroom.

Or... OR... we could just say "This bathroom is for Males and this bathroom is for Females." This should defuse most of the argument.

And I don't know about those who are under the age of 25 but I always was led to believe the bathrooms divided the sexes not the genders.

[Underverse]

Or... OR... we could just say "This bathroom is for Males and this bathroom is for Females." This should defuse most of the argument.

Or....we could have one bathroom, and anyone can use it, because we're all humans.

[Belize]

It's to the point where we need to have two bathrooms. One unisex each and they can have one occupant only. There will be lines but then no one can complain about who uses the bathroom.

Or just do like Buc'Ees and make the stalls ground to ceiling.

So many problems could be solved with non 100% terrible stalls.

[Deleted]

Why aren't MTFs fine with going into men's restrooms? Why do they feel uncomfortable with men being around them?

Well, that's why.

Probably because of stigma

[Deleted]

Because there are more cases of MTF Trans folks being harassed, or assaulted in men's rooms, than there are of "Men in wigs" raping little girls in women's rooms.

On another note, if bathrooms were gender-neutral then fathers could guard their daughters if they're really paranoid.

This isn't exactly practical, your kid goes to school alone, you can't stand next to them all the time. It's not just men in wigs, I would be worried about other kids too.
Kids can bully and shame each other. I don't want to expose my kid to some pranks where some other kids can pretend to be another gender just to go into the other restroom and harass people as a joke.

Hell, even I remember asshole kids from my old elementary and middle school classrooms who would have definitely gone into the girls restroom just for the heck of it if the law allowed them to.

[Theodarzna]

Thanks, and I agree, there are a few people here that are very good at setting up points, and have cohesive arguments (though I may not fully agree with them, etc), etc... You, @Skroe, @Yvaelle, @Theodarzna, @Atethecat, @PrimaryColor, @Damajin, @Felya and many others.

The interesting thing about @Felya and I though, is that we had very similar childhoods. Both of us are Russian immigrants that went through the hoops of leaving the USSR in the late 1980's. Including living in Vienna, Italy, while waiting for asylum/refugee status from the US.

Kind of echoing the discussion we had yesterday about how people behave and their life experiences.

To add to what @BloodElf4Life describes, I think there are several distinctive cliques here.

I would say discussion is largely not what goes on here.