Concordance of the Legionfall..see you next expansion...

[Glorious Leader]

All I'm seeing in this thread is kids/adults who have no impulse control and need an imposed cap on them so they don't "have to grind".

You don't have to grind, and if you play in a guild that would make you do so (and you think that would be unfun), then you need to get your priorities straight.

This is without even going into the fact that when caps have been placed on various forms of currency/methods of progression (Valor/Justice points/badges stonekeepers shards etc) in the past people get all up in arms about how now they feel the need to cap every week, or they're falling behind.

There's no winning with people who don't have self control.

Thats just it their really isnt. The good news is in addition to being sociopaths many of these folks are also hopeless addicts. They can and should be thrown under the bus. The current artifact system is fine.

[Usagi Senshi]

Yeah... looks like disbanding my mythic guild in WoD was the right decision. I can enjoy the game now, instead of having to play mindless korean grinder 24/7. No wonders top guilds are disbanding in droves right now. The absurd AP grind is too much even for the most hardcore of the most hardcore.

Good job, Failzard. It is funny seeing devs turning on full retard mode again.

At this point I honestly feel that Blade and Soul (they just nerfed a bit of the grind as well and will do more so later) has less of a grind than WoW and that really surprises me.

[IceMan1763]

Thats just it their really isnt. The good news is in addition to being sociopaths many of these folks are also hopeless addicts. They can and should be thrown under the bus. The current artifact system is fine.

The addicts are the ones who stay subbed. It's the people like me who refuse to participate in these ridiculous systems that have the self control to unsub.

And that is happening, and in large numbers, despite you and your fanbois running around saying "everything is fine" "artifact system is fine" "legiondaries are fine" "the devs balls in my mouth are fine".

[Azelas]

their answer to complaints about Legion being too much of a grind and RNG being too high is putting in more grind and more RNG.

Good shit.

[Zyky]

you do realise that it goes up like 6m then 8m, then 12m then 18m, then 20m

art knowledge only goes so high and art knowldge is up to 1.25m% who knows maybe blizz thought about making it last for once?

You do realize that people had 54 before AK25 right? It'll be the same exact thing here I'm 100% sure.

[Glorious Leader]

The addicts are the ones who stay subbed. It's the people like me who refuse to participate in these ridiculous systems that have the self control to unsub.

And that is happening, and in large numbers, despite you and your fanbois running around saying "everything is fine" "artifact system is fine" "legiondaries are fine" "the devs balls in my mouth are fine".

I have MANY criticisms of legion. I agree rng is balls, put the legendaries on a vendor. The complaint im forced to do mandatory grinds because of social pressures is one i have zero sympathy for.

[Azelas]

I have MANY criticisms of legion. I agree rng is balls, put the legendaries on a vendor. The complaint im forced to do mandatory grinds because of social pressures is one i have zero sympathy for.

it's not "social pressure". It's the fact that it's REQUIRED for Mythic raiding.

[Glorious Leader]

it's not "social pressure". It's the fact that it's REQUIRED for Mythic raiding.

Required by whom? Are you suggesting the bosses cannot be defeated without them? Even if that were the case thats fine thats a choice you make. Too bad?

[Chrno]

There are better methods to develop a character in rpg game than endless AP grind, WoW is a full time job now.

1. Need to do WQ for chest
2. Need to do random BG for AP
3. Need to win BG for AP/Quest
4. Need to run EN/TV/NH Normal and Heroics to proc leg (5 till now, 4 utility and 1 QoL)
5. Need to do Mythic+ for weekly chest
6. Need to kill all Danger, Wanted world bosses for leg proc chance.
7. Need to farm gold to survive until next raid (BS/Miner)

There is no time to enjoy the game atm. If i won't do this I'll be even more behind others, especially those with BiS legos.

Umm, and I have 2 alts yet...

You actually honestly do all that stuff ...
rofl ... feels bad to be you xD

havnt done WQ or PvP in ages and only do the stuff i actually like doing
I am slowly closing in to that 5th legendary. I am not going to ruin the fun i have in a game just for that 1 extra (random) legendary you have more then i have.

goodluck with your 6th

[Azelas]

Required by whom? Are you suggesting the bosses cannot be defeated without them? Even if that were the case thats fine thats a choice you make. Too bad?

Required to beat bosses, yes. Some bosses in M NH are tuned to 54 fucking traits, while others are tuned to less amount of traits, but an amount that still requires quite a bit of grinding.

I enjoy the fuck out of mythic raiding. The fact that I am REQUIRED to do 10000 Maw of Souls runs to get there is actually disgusting.

[Manabomb]

ITS OPTIONAL, THE TRAITS WILL COST SO MUCH IT WILL TAKE THE EXPANSION IF NOT LONGER TO GET THEM ALL.

now that thats aside, its put a new cap in place for those who want to obtain somethingh after they have obtained everything else.

So what, exactly, was the design point of removing artifact weapons after the expansion, as is their current plan?

If it's going to take so long to max out a weapon, I see no point even as a casual player. They are doubling down on the "grind with no cap" gameplay with AK being your "softcap" which only really worked when AP scaled linearly. I have no idea how they are going to fix this beyond telling raiders to deal with it.

Which I'm perfectly fine with. The sooner raiders can take a step down and -experience- the game along with the rest of the "casual peasants" the sooner the game might actually be good again.

- - - Updated - - -

Required to beat bosses, yes. Some bosses in M NH are tuned to 54 fucking traits, while others are tuned to less amount of traits, but an amount that still requires quite a bit of grinding.

I enjoy the fuck out of mythic raiding. The fact that I am REQUIRED to do 10000 Maw of Souls runs to get there is actually disgusting.

That is, and always has been, the problem with you and raiders like you. The fact you see everything as a requirement and not as progression. It's a mentality thing, and this expansion simply doesn't tolerate your type of raider mentality.

And considering raiders, specifically mythic raiders, are among a hyper minority? I don't imagine that changing anytime soon. Players with the free time and the capability will be able to adapt and those who don't will either downshift to being casual or quit.

[Azelas]

Which I'm perfectly fine with. The sooner raiders can take a step down and -experience- the game along with the rest of the "casual peasants" the sooner the game might actually be good again.

What if I told you people -experience- the game doing different things? For mythic raiders it's the challenge of going into a boss and wiping a shitton of times before killing it. Adjusting strategies, getting better together, fixing cooldowns, finding optimal talent builds, and the satisfaction of downing a boss after hours of being at it.

People will always strive to be the first, no matter what you do. Good luck trying to force people not to be the best, I can assure you they'll try even harder when you do.

- - - Updated - - -

That is, and always has been, the problem with you and raiders like you. The fact you see everything as a requirement and not as progression. It's a mentality thing, and this expansion simply doesn't tolerate your type of raider mentality.

It's not I that said it's a requirement, it's BLIZZARD THEMSELVES that said 54 traits was a requirement to beat some bosses in M NH. There is no progression without 54 traits, it's as simple as it is.

[Wingspan]

Required by whom? Are you suggesting the bosses cannot be defeated without them? Even if that were the case thats fine thats a choice you make. Too bad?

It's kind of funny to see the "If you don't like it, don't do it." sentiment used in a different context.

For years, I have said the same thing about people who do not want flight in the game. Just take a stand and don't use it if you hate it so much.


People don't really accept it in that context either.

[Mhyroth]

TL: DR: I want World of Warcraft back.
If I want to play Diablo I will log onto Diablo.

The Paragon and Gearing system works in Diablo since it's infinite (to an extend) and you don't have lockouts to hold you back.
In World of Warcraft there's a system called "lockouts" which works different as Diablo.
Taking 2 completely different systems and trying to integrate them in such a way is bad (and was already shown to be bad on the Alpha/Beta before Legion even launched) since it's impossible to make them work without screwing over other aspects of your game.
Glad all I do is run old content, because else I would've called it quits months ago.
It's pretty pathetic that old content is more enjoyable for certain individuals instead of the new content released 6 months ago. To those who say it's always been like that and people have different tastes I say "you are right", but not entirely. There's a pretty clear change in the way the playerbase plays the game and wants to enjoy it, yet those who are in charge of making changes refuse to take any critisism (see Lore's responce on the frontpage) and just do what they want.
Companies who make a lot of profit actually care about their customers (aka players) and listen to feedback. You don't retain customers (aka players) by just making 180 degree turns every... single...patch/expansion. Have some consistency and a clear idea you want to work towards. I haven't read anything which comes even remotely close to something like that.

Call me a whiner or call me a negative nanny, but unsatisfied customers are more likely to express their frustrations/suggestions. It's a part of life and a part of doing business to listen to that feedback and those who are unsatisfied with how the business (game in this case) is run.

This will most likely be my last expansion (and for a lot of others too it seems), but if things don't change towards suggested changes (which sometimes are really well thought through) I won't come back and make sure I'll write in the "unsubscribe page" the reasons why.

[Deleted]

a: YES, TO BE A DOCTOR, NOT TO BE A LAWYER, YOU STUDY MEDICINE NOT LAW, i have no problem with raiding a lot to be a good mythic raider, i have a problem with doing 5-10 times the amount on non raid stuff. if i had to be a 2500 rated arena player to be competitive in mythic raids would that be okay? no, how is this different?
b: there is no entitlement here, i dont want mythic kills handed to me, i want to work for the kills, but believem e (as you've obviously didnt see any mythic raids from how you're talking) doing 2-3 splits and raiding 4hours every night is work enough
c: they do, but 4 hours of progress with 0 kills will literally yield you 0 AP
d: the last time i had to grind this much for competitive raiding was in vanilla, i agree that you should have to commit a lot of playtime to be a competitive mythic raider, but you shouldnt have to commit 80 hours a week, especially not on something that isnt even a raid.

dont confuse entitlement with exhaustion, as i said, tons of mythic guilds stopping competitive mythic progress BECAUSE of the daunting AP grind and the legendary system(which is another issue)

amd amyway, why is it one or the other with you? cant the work be just enough? is it too much or none of it? why does me complaining about spending half my life on WoW to be competitive instantly lead to me wanting to spend none of it?

you havent the smallest idea how much fucking grind it takes to be a top tier mythic raider atm, i played more to effectively grind towards mythic raiding in these 5 months than the 4 years before that combined

maintaining 2 characters on 54 traits on multiple specs with lots of legendaries and high ilvl, IS TONS OF FUCKING WORK, way more than you had to do in the last 6-8 years

just listen to the exorsus interview about their NH progress, they really make it obvious how fucking exhausting it is compared to before

WOW! I think you may need to get out more.

[HordeFanboy]

Imo next expansion will have content on wod level.
Legion has too much grindy/reapeatable content like mop had.

[shaunika123]

WOW! I think you may need to get out more.

tell it to blizzard

also, way to concede the argument and throw a personal attack, desperate for some effect

[Glorious Leader]

It's kind of funny to see the "If you don't like it, don't do it." sentiment used in a different context.

For years, I have said the same thing about people who do not want flight in the game. Just take a stand and don't use it if you hate it so much.


People don't really accept it in that context either.

Of course not. Exploiting every possible advantage > fun or at least its more of a priority then doing shit you hate or dont want to do.

[Kyux]

So getting better now requires a time investment? Why is that an issue? If people want an extra 200 stats on their proc then go for it, but they're getting diminishing returns on their time investment. If a raid group demands max Concordance, then it's not a group you'd (or I rather) would want to raid with.

Also, you're forgetting the exponential requirements of AP. It won't be feasible to grind or to demand high levels while it will still provide an opportunity for some increase in power.

If you're unhappy with the requirements of max level raiding them maybe don't raid at that level because you obviously don't enjoy it? Try heroic or normal, or do mythic+s.

About requiring 54 traits for some M NH bosses: great. Mythic bosses are hard. It doesn't require 1000 Maw runs, that's one way to get there though. It may require 54 traits, but how you get those 54 is up to you. If you get them in an un-enjoyable way that's your fault. Do it over time and it's chill as.

[Shampro]

Imo next expansion will have content on wod level.
Legion has too much grindy/reapeatable content like mop had.

Surely that will go well.

LOL