[Affli] This Specc isnt fine at all - with reasoning

[Tikishock]

What I've found to believe in Nighthold is that each type of spec has a chance to shine in this raid.

If your spec is great at bursting down priority adds--there is a boss encounter for you.

If your spec is great at sustainable single target damage--there is a boss encounter for you.

If your spec is great at AoE damaging low health mobs--there is a boss encounter for you.

If your spec is great at spread-out council fights--there is a boss encounter for you.

Not all specs are going to shine on each and every NH boss encounter. Some players may rock the top of the dps charts in your guild but that could be that they are an exceptional player compared to the rest of your group. Does this mean that all specs are equal and balanced? No. But it also doesn't mean that Affliction is going to succeed in each and every fight in NH. Sometimes it's best for your raid team to let certain teams tunnel on fights because the comparative advantage of them dpsing adds isn't as high as just tunneling the boss.

[Tarov]

Affliction has great sustained single target damage, good aoe damage and OP survivability toolkit. When you complain about others doing "real aoe" it sounds like you would like to press a button and overkill the fight instantly. Have you at least considered that Soul Flame is intended to work this way? You have at least 10-15 other people helping you handling an aoe mechanic. Were you expecting to solo aoe mechanics during a raid encounter?

[Deleted]

What do you mean by that? Do you mean ignoring your own bonds, or ignoring helping others out of their bonds? If its the former, then how can affliction ignore them? We have no immunity cooldowns, dark pact and resolve is insufficient to survive a bond explosion solo, and if you don't break them, their dps will outdo your self healing given that you get knocked out of drain range on Guldan.

I mean not helping others break out of their bonds since it's huge dps loss for Affliction. You get 5 WoC stacks when Eyes die and that's when you should be breaking empowered fel bonds.

[Usernameforforums]

mythic +10-15 you are right.
but if we speak about 20+ demo and destru are stronger than affli, because the mobs have way too much hp to burst them.


uhm no?
there are purple zones spawning randomly + those soaking things dont spawn on set places.
if you have pillars equiped. you are right.

well they should be baseline. but everyone knows that by now. except blizzard ofc.

sorry meant circle

The soaking aoe does negligible for a aff or lock in general

[Amfaos]

If You claim affli has "no burst dmg", just go play Mario... If You need to burst adds, You just save 4 shards, cast 4x UA -> Drain Soul with MG and show me any class that will do more burst in 10 sec... Moreover Warlock doesn't have to w8 for CDs. Learn to play instead of complaining all the time, Warlocks are not for "newbies", You need to understound it works like. Locks are not like "ok pop CD and ill do best DPS" :P

[SpikeySquad]

we are not.
the logs show crazy damage, but in fact it dosent show anything.
50% of that damage comes from soulflame. that means, we just "tag" the mobs -> wait for the other REAL AoE classes to kill them -> explosion damage.
so we actually need the other classes to be able to deal the needed damage.

are you REALLY fine with that?

Yes, I am. I find it a little strange design choice that a passive does so much damage but I personally don't really care where it comes from. I kill bosses as part of a team why wouldn't I be ok with needing them to do damage too? My own logs (I'm only an average player though) always have Seed though as the top damage done.

Like I said before Affy does have some add killing abilities but you are looking at farm logs or ones where people can tunnel. Do several UAs on a target, Reap and drain and the damage is decent. Not top but not that weak either in my opinion. Now try with Demo and especially when TKC is on cooldown.

Naturally if you target switch you lose boss damage but that is what happens in progress usually. Of course on certain fights certain raid teams will need more add damage and like someone above already said Destro is a good progression spec or some of the other 12-13 or so DPS (in 20 man raid) need to step up.

I am ok with Affys overall damage and strengths/weaknesses. I am beginning to find the spec rather boring now though.

[Ashnazg]

If You claim affli has "no burst dmg", just go play Mario... If You need to burst adds, You just save 4 shards, cast 4x UA -> Drain Soul with MG and show me any class that will do more burst in 10 sec... Moreover Warlock doesn't have to w8 for CDs. Learn to play instead of complaining all the time, Warlocks are not for "newbies", You need to understound it works like. Locks are not like "ok pop CD and ill do best DPS" :P

Any class? Frost mage can probably one-shot some adds with a glacial spike. Arcane mage can burn them down quick too. Especially since adds usually come in packs, and the above rotation only works on 1 add, any class with semi decent burst aoe will quickly outpace an afflock.

[Soulzar]

If You claim affli has "no burst dmg", just go play Mario... If You need to burst adds, You just save 4 shards, cast 4x UA -> Drain Soul with MG and show me any class that will do more burst in 10 sec... Moreover Warlock doesn't have to w8 for CDs. Learn to play instead of complaining all the time, Warlocks are not for "newbies", You need to understound it works like. Locks are not like "ok pop CD and ill do best DPS" :P

You know I used to think the same.. ua is a quick cast time and MG UA do so much dmg... but in the time you took to cast those 4 uas, before you even start draining to buff with MG... the add is dead (or should be). Even just 2 UAs you would be hard pressed to get meaningful dmg going out within 5 seconds.

Krosus for example, when you soak and adds spawn. Ideally, You want to tag them so that you get the WoC stack.. however if a bunch spawn and I need to put meaningful dmg on them, I cant tab around dots to them, as those dots wont tick enough times to do anything worthwhile. Maybe I choose to drop UAs into one and drain just it, but that add gets blown up in 2 globals by another players and the one beside it is now sitting with no dots on it and all the cast time i dedicated to the first add is fully wasted since none of the dmg is upfront.

This is most definitely a notable weakness for Affliction with the way fight adds have been designed in most cases. In the past, if one specs toolkit lacked something you needed for progression, you'd swap specs to the one that best handled your needs. Unfortunately the game design right now with Artifact Power, Relics, and Legendaries has created a gap that doesnt allow spec swapping to cover toolkit shortcomings.

I don't feel its a shortcoming that has to be addressed specifically in Afflictions toolkit as much as the current game design with regards to spec swapping. That said, Haunt exists if they ever felt like making it an accessible talent choice.

[Arcrin]

affliction is bad on adds that die fast. best example is krosus adds. they live for so short that overall its better dmg to just tag them for wrath buff and tunnel boss. what we DO excel is ST dmg or sustained AoE. we do shittons of ST dmg to push boss into next phase or keeping skorpions down so others can focus ST.

we can burst a LOT on adds if its single adds like M guldan eye which has 90m hp. it all comes down to what is more dmg, wrath stack/refresh or burst single add.

[Deleted]

The sole weakness of the spec is cleave. It can swap to targets just fine, unless they die in 5 seconds in which case it's a non issue because apparently your damage is not needed anyway.

Specs are not supposed to be super good at everything.

[corebit]

If Aflliction priority add damage was as good as Destro's, then Destro players would be out of a job.
Right now Affliction is stuck between Demo and Destro in terms of ST-Cleave spectrum. Demo is the ST powerhouse and Destro is amazing at priority cleave.

[Orwell7]

If Aflliction priority add damage was as good as Destro's, then Destro players would be out of a job.
Right now Affliction is stuck between Demo and Destro in terms of ST-Cleave spectrum. Demo is the ST powerhouse and Destro is amazing at priority cleave.

Please provide some facts.
Go check on Chronomatic Anomaly where there are adds to kill. Are there any warlock spec on top? nope.
Go check Krosus logs. We can't even interrupt those little adds not even kill them in time.
Parasites on Botanist? Link some amazing destro cleave there!
Tainted Bloods on Tichondrius?
What else is there? Oh Trilliax's Imprint. Nope, destro isn't amazing there either.

BUT thanks for trying, and thanks for proving AGAIN that the warlock community is the meme with the bicycle where the guy puts a stick in the wheel and then blames someone else.
No, we have to blame ourselves because if there is a problem to fix some wise locks come and say that everything is alright.
No, it's not alright.

[BannedForViews]

mythic +10-15 you are right.
but if we speak about 20+ demo and destru are stronger than affli, because the mobs have way too much hp to burst them.


uhm no?
there are purple zones spawning randomly + those soaking things dont spawn on set places.
if you have pillars equiped. you are right.

well they should be baseline. but everyone knows that by now. except blizzard ofc.

affliction does fine in high dungeons. don't kid yourself. We don't burst, we just do consistent damage all the time.

- - - Updated - - -

You know I used to think the same.. ua is a quick cast time and MG UA do so much dmg... but in the time you took to cast those 4 uas, before you even start draining to buff with MG... the add is dead (or should be). Even just 2 UAs you would be hard pressed to get meaningful dmg going out within 5 seconds.

Krosus for example, when you soak and adds spawn. Ideally, You want to tag them so that you get the WoC stack.. however if a bunch spawn and I need to put meaningful dmg on them, I cant tab around dots to them, as those dots wont tick enough times to do anything worthwhile. Maybe I choose to drop UAs into one and drain just it, but that add gets blown up in 2 globals by another players and the one beside it is now sitting with no dots on it and all the cast time i dedicated to the first add is fully wasted since none of the dmg is upfront.

This is most definitely a notable weakness for Affliction with the way fight adds have been designed in most cases. In the past, if one specs toolkit lacked something you needed for progression, you'd swap specs to the one that best handled your needs. Unfortunately the game design right now with Artifact Power, Relics, and Legendaries has created a gap that doesnt allow spec swapping to cover toolkit shortcomings.

I don't feel its a shortcoming that has to be addressed specifically in Afflictions toolkit as much as the current game design with regards to spec swapping. That said, Haunt exists if they ever felt like making it an accessible talent choice.

That's why I just tag adds and go back to the boss. If people want to complain that's on them. The boss needs to die just as much as anything else does. I play my part doing a lot of damage to it.

People need to get over this "I can't adds!" thing. You don't need 13 players to swap to adds. That's just foolish. Play your roll. Get some shards and WoC stacks, nuke the boss.

[cristos]

Affliction was godly for single target sustained during HFC. Highest single target damage in the game was affliction warlocks.

They ruined affliction when they removed soulburning and added this new UA stacking mechanic.

The old UA was better as was the drain soul with built in malefic grasp.

No lazy ass talents to make dots tick harder while channeling drain soul it was built it.

But removed in legion for some stupid reason..

[Deleted]

you can nuke do that stuff as affliction, but it is a real struggle and even if you execute it perfectly you are nowhere near burst classes on priority adds.

It would be nice to have some sort of tool in our repertoire that isn't worth it on straight single target, but good for burst on priority adds.

I have the exact same problem in raiding. I could just tunnel stuff and dot adds once for WoC/Souls and then I would do lots more damage, but my guild does check logs and benches people who don't play mechanics properly.
I literally have to cast Seed of Corruption so that it does explode on GulDan when the eyes spawn and the double UA -> Drain each single eye until none are left or I will be close to last on damage on the eyes.

Warlocks like preciousyipz are good players, but they are toxic for the perception of a class. His only goal is to do as much damage as possible.
This is also the reason why the best guilds in the world all didn't take Affliction Warlocks for their world first kills in NH. Because they know that Affliction lacks where it matters most.

Affliction would need the niche of being :

- long ramp up time
- low burst damage
- highest sustained single target


But when 8 melee classes have higher single target and much better burst and mobility then it comes to no surprise that a damage specc with a very long ramp up time struggles with important tasks.

Sure, preciousyipz does a lot of damage. He probably does have the best affliction gear in the game, the best trinkets, legendaries etc. It looks pretty amazing when he does his thing of maximing damage for logs and damage meters. He joined <Limit> now. Sadly it came after the US Mythic Gul'Dan firstkill so now its gear farming for him again.

what you are saying about yipz is just total garbage and i despise you as a human being. He said multiple times in his guides/videos that he is NOT dpsing adds BECAUSE his RAID DOES NOT NEED HIM.
Do you understand that? If your raidleading wasn't bullshit they would accept that your as an aff just cant output the same amount of dmg as for example any god damn melee in 3 globals that the eyes do live without losing 90% singletarget dps. ANY Raidlead with a brain will let an AFF tunnel the boss, because thats what we are good at. And don't give me the bullcrap that warlock wasnt viable for progression. It is very well viable, guilds just chose to use other classes because they could cheat mechanics to make the fight infinitely easier. (tripple rogue on gul dan for example cloaking the bonds gg)

- - - Updated - - -

That may be, but the amount of people running 20+ dungeons right now is minuscule - probably less than 200 people in US (and mostly on fort weeks), so most of your time is spent farming 15s for gear or pushing 15-19s.

Even on +20 Aff is doing crazy damage with AC StS. Just alter your playstyle a little bit smh, you cant play every dungeon like its a +2 Maw -.-

[Amfaos]

Ashnazg
Soulzar

This is what I wrote about... You just cant understand the idea of UA... I agree frost mage can 1shot some adds, but do we talk about normal or mythic? Have You guys killed mythic Botanist? There are a looot adds and secondary priority adds like spheres. Maybe You dont know when add with Ur UA dies, You get Your shard back? Try to UA every add on Krosus one by one, should help, even if killed faster, Your shards will be refunded back to Botanist now... As affli im the only one dpsing orbs, bad? Yes affli is able to control orbs on mythic difficuilty himself, it gives riddiculous dps gain on bosses for rest of raid. And small lashers... they appear after each sphere dies next phases, affli just destroys them: 2x UA -> 2x UA second one and drain. You have 5 shards all the time, ready for next packs, there are not classes who can be even close to affli killing these GL

[BannedForViews]

Ashnazg
Soulzar

This is what I wrote about... You just cant understand the idea of UA... I agree frost mage can 1shot some adds, but do we talk about normal or mythic? Have You guys killed mythic Botanist? There are a looot adds and secondary priority adds like spheres. Maybe You dont know when add with Ur UA dies, You get Your shard back? Try to UA every add on Krosus one by one, should help, even if killed faster, Your shards will be refunded back to Botanist now... As affli im the only one dpsing orbs, bad? Yes affli is able to control orbs on mythic difficuilty himself, it gives riddiculous dps gain on bosses for rest of raid. And small lashers... they appear after each sphere dies next phases, affli just destroys them: 2x UA -> 2x UA second one and drain. You have 5 shards all the time, ready for next packs, there are not classes who can be even close to affli killing these GL

Or i can dot them for woc stacks and keep tunneling the boss.

[Secr3tt]

very low mobility.

You are not playing the same game, lock mobility is great.

[monchwow]

aff is great if u have the leggo hood.

[Xeranath]

Please provide some facts.
Go check on Chronomatic Anomaly where there are adds to kill. Are there any warlock spec on top? nope.
Go check Krosus logs. We can't even interrupt those little adds not even kill them in time.
Parasites on Botanist? Link some amazing destro cleave there!
Tainted Bloods on Tichondrius?
What else is there? Oh Trilliax's Imprint. Nope, destro isn't amazing there either.

BUT thanks for trying, and thanks for proving AGAIN that the warlock community is the meme with the bicycle where the guy puts a stick in the wheel and then blames someone else.
No, we have to blame ourselves because if there is a problem to fix some wise locks come and say that everything is alright.
No, it's not alright.

Sowarlocks have to be the top dps in every fight before you're happy? Stahp.