Since we are on the topic of virtue signalling

[Theinquisition]

Rare i understand but tragic? wth?!

You don´t come across as being pro choice though.

Its a loss of potential life...that is tragic.

I dont believe morality can be legislated and i dont believve banning abortions will make them less common.

Lastly...if abortion is going to be a thing i want them to be safe and done by medical professionals

[Arewn]

How is it different from expecting everyone pro-immigration to accept strangers into their homes?

Personally I'm pro choice, but your comparison is bad because people who are anti-abortions ALSO don't want unwanted babies. What they want is for people to stop doing what leads to unwanted babies to begin with.

[Mayhem]

Its a loss of potential life...that is tragic.

I dont believe morality can be legislated and i dont believve banning abortions will make them less common.

Lastly...if abortion is going to be a thing i want them to be safe and done by medical professionals

Ok, but you wanting it to be tragic makes it sound very sadistic.

[hakujinbakasama]

Personally I'm pro choice, but your comparison is bad because people who are anti-abortions ALSO don't want unwanted babies. What they want is for people to stop doing what leads to unwanted babies to begin with.

Pretty much this. I've never seen the argument framed as "I want abortions banned and for all the girls to get knocked up." The argument is generally sourced from the point they want people to stop fucking everything that moves and ignoring the consequences which they feel is creating systemic social problems.

[Mayhem]

Personally I'm pro choice, but your comparison is bad because people who are anti-abortions ALSO don't want unwanted babies. What they want is for people to stop doing what leads to unwanted babies to begin with.

That means you think people who want to help refugees also want that people become refugees?

[Arewn]

That means you think people who want to help refugees also want that people become refugees?

People want to let refugees into the country, a necessary result of that being the refugees need housing.

People want abortions to be illegal, a realistic expected result of that being unwanted babies are born. BUT in the minds of these people, the desired expected result is that there are no unwanted babies because people won't get pregnant when they don't want children.
Haku gives a bit more detail on the mentality behind this (post #76).

[Mayhem]

People want to let refugees into the country, a necessary result of that being the refugees need housing.

People want abortions to be illegal, a realistic expected result of that being unwanted babies are born. BUT in the minds of these people, the desired expected result is that there are no unwanted babies because people won't get pregnant when they don't want children.
Haku gives a bit more detail on the mentality behind this (post #76).

Yeah, but i don´t understand the logic behind it, how is outlawing abortions going to keep people from getting pregnant unwanted? I mean, they already don´t want to get pregnant.

[Daelak]

The most idiotic thing that can be said about the topic.

Can you just stop having car accidents?
Can you just stop having plane crashes?
Can you just stop eating unhealthy food?
Can you just stop being stupid?

That's boilerplate conservative logic in public policy for literally everything. They say it to show how incompetent their ideology is to governing a first world nation.

[Sama-81]

Generally because it's only about 99% effective. Which means if you have sex 50 times, there's about a 40% chance of getting pregnant one of those times.

Math is hard.

Oral contraceptives, at least some of them, have a far better than 99% effectiveness, when used properly. I remember reading at least two scientific studies a few years ago, for some reason or other (I believe it had something to do with a colleague at university presenting her current research, but can't swear on it), and I know for a fact that none of them dipped as low as only being effective in 99% of the cases.

Edit: For that matter, I also recall that the rate of effectiveness was way lower (somewhere around 95%, I think?) for those that did use the contraceptives regularly, but didn't follow the instructions as well as they should have (ie forgot at times, and what have you).

[Arewn]

Yeah, but i don´t understand the logic behind it, how is outlawing abortions going to keep people from getting pregnant unwanted? I mean, they already don´t want to get pregnant.

Well... its not going to is the answer lol.
But that's more or less their stance from what I understand. Which is why telling them to take care of the unwanted babies isn't a an appropriate comparison. Because in their minds, that's not the result of their stance.

[Manabomb]

Or people could...you know...use protection

So condoms that still only work 95~% of the time, birth control pills that have huge ranges of effects on the individual (let alone the cost) that also aren't 100% guarantees (even when combined with condoms/vasectomy) aaaand... I guess pulling out?

If only there was a 100% way to make sure that mass of cells growing within the uterus doesn't gain cognitive function. Oh wait, terminate it before it becomes anything more than a mass of cells? BLASPHEMY, VOODOO MAGIC, HATE HATE.

You people are always fun =)

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Well... its not going to is the answer lol.
But that's more or less their stance from what I understand. Which is why telling them to take care of the unwanted babies isn't a an appropriate comparison. Because in their minds, that's not the result of their stance.

Yeah. Their stance if protecting the "sanctity of life".

Do they care what happens to that life after it's given life? Nope. No you see, they'd rather see children starving in the streets than a few cells ejected and washed away. And people say I have a shoddy morality.

[Sama-81]

So condoms that still only work 95~% of the time, birth control pills that have huge ranges of effects on the individual (let alone the cost) that also aren't 100% guarantees (even when combined with condoms/vasectomy) aaaand... I guess pulling out?

A complete and according-to-instructions use of birth control pills (at least some brands, propably most), alongside the proper use of a condom, is very close to 100% effective. Certainly not exactly 100%, but we're talking about figures circulating around, at the most, and I'm not joking here, hundredths of a percent risk of pregnancy (as in number of cases of pregnancies per longer period of time of sexual activity (if I recall completely, a whole year), NOT per instance of having sex). Very, very safe, in other words - albeit not 100% so.

[Theinquisition]

So condoms that still only work 95~% of the time, birth control pills that have huge ranges of effects on the individual (let alone the cost) that also aren't 100% guarantees (even when combined with condoms/vasectomy) aaaand... I guess pulling out?

If only there was a 100% way to make sure that mass of cells growing within the uterus doesn't gain cognitive function. Oh wait, terminate it before it becomes anything more than a mass of cells? BLASPHEMY, VOODOO MAGIC, HATE HATE.

You people are always fun =)

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Yeah. Their stance if protecting the "sanctity of life".

Do they care what happens to that life after it's given life? Nope. No you see, they'd rather see children starving in the streets than a few cells ejected and washed away. And people say I have a shoddy morality.

Calm down turbo.

Let me clarify my position since you seem to want to draw conclusions about my beliefs based upon a one sentence statement.

I believe as most Americans do, that abortions should be rare and tragic.

I understand women getting abortions in the case of incest, rape, or early in the pregnancy if the man doesn't want to help support the baby, or it would devastate the life of the woman.

Additionally, I don't think banning abortions would even be effective, as women would just find blackmarket alternatives that endanger their health even more

I'm not keen on the idea of bringing life into this world if that life is going to be treated as a accident, or not wanted.

I can also extend empathy in those situations as well, whether most people know it or not, abortions tend to have long lasting physiological and psychological consequences for women. If I remember correctly having an abortion can lessen a woman's ability to get pregnant by double digit %'s.

Now with that being said, women who wait until 20 weeks+ to get a abortion outside of medical necessity, glorify it, glamourize it, and/ call it "empowering" are just awful terrible people.

At the end of the day, whether you view a fetus as a clump of cells, or a viable life, it still is a "potential" life that is being snuffed out, with all the great potential and value that a new life can have.

[Underverse]

Calm down turbo.

Let me clarify my position since you seem to want to draw conclusions about my beliefs based upon a one sentence statement.

I believe as most Americans do, that abortions should be rare and tragic.

I understand women getting abortions in the case of incest, rape, or early in the pregnancy if the man doesn't want to help support the baby, or it would devastate the life of the woman.

Additionally, I don't think banning abortions would even be effective, as women would just find blackmarket alternatives that endanger their health even more

I'm not keen on the idea of bringing life into this world if that life is going to be treated as a accident, or not wanted.

I can also extend empathy in those situations as well, whether most people know it or not, abortions tend to have long lasting physiological and psychological consequences for women. If I remember correctly having an abortion can lessen a woman's ability to get pregnant by double digit %'s.

Now with that being said, women who wait until 20 weeks+ to get a abortion outside of medical necessity, glorify it, glamourize it, and/ call it "empowering" are just awful terrible people.

At the end of the day, whether you view a fetus as a clump of cells, or a viable life, it still is a "potential" life that is being snuffed out, with all the great potential and value that a new life can have.

Do women glorify abortion? I haven't seen much/any of that. But I would agree; abortion is not something to be glorified.

There are many reasons that someone might wait 20+weeks for an abortion. Questions of viability/serious developmental defects is one major reason. Not knowing that one is pregnant out to 20 weeks can also happen, although it's rare and I would say that might fall into the category of a persona failing. Still, I don't see a reason to outlaw, say, post 20-week abortions. The cost of abortion, physically and mentally, increases at the fetus matures. Women don't relish a change to get a late-term abortion.