Ion: It's the Myhic guild leaders fault for burnout

[Queen of Hamsters]

It'd be a pretty damned boring game if they pandered to people that choose to play like their lives depend on it... Actually, we had that in WoD.

[Deleted]

And that is something i may agree with you, but it is a different topic.
We are talking about this sick compulsion some people have of making of wow some kind of e-sport game, that they play for a living, instead of enjoying it as mere players.

What you're overlooking is that it will make things even harder for guilds who want to raid in mythic as players before the next raid tier is released. If the top guilds must farm AP, so do the less hardcore guilds, thus making even longer and more tedious the amount of work required to be mythic ready.

Honestly I used to play 7 evening a week out of 7 in TBC in order to raid at a decent level (eg at a level required to finish the raids before the nerfs), but I just couldn't do it in legion if I wanted to due to all the required farming. That's just crazy.

[Sevyvia]

Fire this guy ASAP.

What a measured response.

[XDurionX]

Leave WQs in the game. Remove AP/AK. Tie player power to gear alone.

Also, where the fuck do you think you get off telling me how I get to play this game? I understand the nature of competitive raiding but I also want to have a life outside of raiding and I dislike that my value as a raider is measured by how many Mythic Maw of Soul runs I can handle before gouging my eyeballs out. But that's too much to ask, apparently. Jimmy McCasualfaggot has to feel like he's in line with the big mean Mythic raiders because AP/AK has to exist without caps. I get that Mythic raiders represent a small portion of the community but the lack of empathy people on this forum have for them is kind of repulsive.

What would be the point of WQs without AP? People would stop doing them once they've reached exalted on all the factions. We've had that in WoD, and it was the worst expansion save cata. Jimmy McCasualfaggot is paying for the development as well as Kuznam or Sco. Wow could survive without all those tryhards, but it can't survive without casuals. Mythic raiding is just a bonus, 90% wouldn't care if it was scrapped. And why should i have empathy for someone forcing himself to play? That sounds like an addiction problem. You're setting your own pace. Blizzard doesn't force you to kill 6 mythic bosses week one. Or 8 in week 6. Or 10 in week 20. It's your own fucking fault if you can't control yourself.

[Armourboy]

Unless they tune mythic bosses to have all available traits, etc. Sure, you can choose not to do 5 alts, split runs etc but if you tune the later bosses to have either 54 traits or a shit ton of gear from earlier bosses (or both) then it is, to a degree, their fault.

No it's not. It just means it will take time or enough skill to figure out how to do it until you hit that point. Just because it is there and available doesn't mean it is designed for you to walk in and take it down right that instant. This is why this type of thing has the name progression, because you need to progress not only skill wise but gear wise as well. Mythic guilds basically take what is designed to last months, and compress it down into a couple of weeks by playing insane amounts of time and running several different characters. The game is not designed to be played this way, but it is what people do.

Blizzard has figured out that designing the game around the few % of how people play is bad for retention rates. Things may indeed be more cyclical now, but if you can design the game to slow the highs and lows of that swing down, you earn more money, and people are invested in your game.

[Queen of Hamsters]

The amount of anger and vitriol on a forum about this video game never ceases to amaze me. These heroin addicts that need their WoW fix are triggered AF all the time.

It's especially funny when some people lash the creators as second-class citizens because they peddle a product to "retards"... and then those same people belong to the crowds treating the game as a first job. :P

[Jonnusthegreat]

I mean, it is their fault. You would use the same argument for anything you do "80 hours a week." Even people that work that much, being productive and earning money. It is THEIR FAULT for burnout.

[Deleted]

You can't avoid burnouts totally... that's a false equivalency. I'm saying that the introduction of several systems in this xpac actually encourages burnout. You don't limit playtime, you limit the amount of power gain that can be had over X amount of time. That is standard... see loot table lockouts, raid lockouts, valor/conquest/justice points in the past. In fact, this is one of the first xpacs which did not follow that standard design with several systems. Yet Ion blames the guild leaders and not the new system which encourage grinding and thus, burnout. That's my whole point.

Because it's the guild leaders' prerogative that the guild members have to farm the AP for a community-only race. Blizzard shouldn't hold your hand and tell when you should stop playing.

[oraz4000]

Mythic raiding is the problem not the AP grind.

Almost every complaint about the game revolves around Mythic raiding (legendaries, AP grind to be competitive)

[Deleted]

It worked for six fucking expansions, why change it now?

Because the system evolved?

[Sentynel]

https://clips.twitch.tv/warcraft/OpenDugongYouWHY

What a fucking ass. Seriously.

Fire this guy ASAP.

Why? Because he's telling the truth?

[aeluna]

Keeping up in this expansion is almost entirely RNG. I have a main that took me forever to get geared up, and she's still my top geared, then I have several alts that jumped near the same ilvl out of sheer luck from world bosses, weekly events, caches, etc.

This is the first expansion for me that I've seen require less skill to play well and is more heavily dependent on gear. Sure, all the other expansions required gear to some degree, but rotations were more complex and if you didn't have a good understanding of skills available to you you could still be beaten by someone with lesser gear.

This xpac has felt more or less like a carrot on a stick. Legendaries designed to optimize a class's performance, BiS, 2-set/4-set, etc. Its an endless cycle of chasing gear when you are already a capable player. Its a very transparent reward. My rotation could be identical to that of a person with a higher ilvl, but because of his higher ilvl, he absolutely crushes me on the meter. Personally, I'd rather have quest lines and work towards something rather than everything feel like its a roll of the dice.

Class balance is also a farse this expansion. Healers for example, when played by equally talented players are almost neck in neck. That is because they are balanced. DPS/specs on the other hand is a farse fest. Its carrot on a stick all over again. You dedicate yourself to a specific spec, then after a few keystrokes blizzard breaks that class, and 'forces' you to shift to another class/spec if you want to remain competitive. Its not even just Blizzards fault for playing the flavor game. Its the players for not demanding class balance and always buying into their imbalance excuses where from my perspective its intentional and by design to keep you playing longer.

[Deleted]

Because the system evolved?

So did the sub count : not in the right direction.

[Fleuria]

If i had to spend 1-2 extra weeks on krosus because I couldn't get 54 traits when it is tuned around 54 traits, I would probably just instantly quit the game, wiping on something that is easily kill able but not because of some artificial gating is pure cancer of the highest form and I would rather not spend that time on wiping so much more because it's not fun in the slightest.

People can argue that the hardcore raider needs to get off this bandwagon of thinking x traits is necessary but as is you are forced to farm unless you want to spend an unbearable amount of time on an easy boss trying to hit the DPS check. It was fine in WoD and other expansions because 1 reset of gear was vastly more superior than it is now where having 1-2% garaunteed extra dps is far superior and gear is far worst off in power creep.

[cFortyfive]

We are talking about this sick compulsion some people have of making of wow some kind of e-sport game, that they play for a living, instead of enjoying it as mere players.

You mean that one that only exists in your head ?

[Deleted]

So did the sub count : not in the right direction.

You are honestly saying that the subs are dropping because the AP system?

[Deleted]

It worked for six fucking expansions,

I'm not even sure if this is true.

There was no character progression outside of raiding - at least, after the first week of an expansion.
I think it's a pretty cool feature to be able to get an increase in power from basically everywhere in Legion.

PvP, PvE, WQ/Dailies, Raid, Dungeons, heck - even grinding mobs will eventually lead you to the next artifact level.

[munkeyinorbit]

The problem isn't "getting better," it's that in every situation players will simply grind the additional 6 traits instead. That's time investment. And that's the problem with this stupid fucking system.

I remember the last time that they introduced valor and people could grind out an extra 10 ilvls in a couple of weeks. Some guy from the raid was "Hey man, starting tomorrow I am forming a group to grind out all the valor we can". I said "Don't bother, you're shit today, you'll be shit in a week. It would be better if you spent 4 hours on the dummy".

Just because you can do something and grind it out doesn't actually mean it is the best use of your time. If we take out the top 250 players because there is no point arguing that they are not good, they are impressive, almost all other players have something extra they can do to get themselves better. If there wasn't then every fucking Mythic guild would be pushing world first. Reality shows there is about 10 guilds and within those 10 guilds maybe 3-5 were close.

[Deleted]

You are honestly saying that the subs are dropping because the AP system?

I don't know, but from the reactions on the official forums it may be the case. What I do know though is that subs are dropping since the middle of WOTLK, and that's exactly when blizzard started to do some weird things with WoW.

[Kazlofski]

He is right lol, it's impossible to make loads of interesting and different content to satisfy hardcore players, consumption happens way faster than production.
Unless they add more stuff like hardcore grinds, not sure how much people enjoy those, maybe up to a point.