Ion: It's the Myhic guild leaders fault for burnout

[protosync]

People complaining about things that are true. Funny.

This. (Ten Characters)

[Armourboy]

It's bad game design, it really serves nobody.

Working alright for me.

[FelPlague]

Tuning for 54 traits isn't an issue man....raid leaders expecting 54 traits on multiple characters is the issue....seriously just get rid of split raids already....

how
tell us ow do you get rid of split raids...

[Nosdrone]

Working alright for me.

Same here. I play this video game just fine.

[Sastank]

Can't handle the burden of feeling obligated to play 24/7? Choose a different lifestyle. Play casually. Won't burn out. Just find something else to complain about like a normal person.

[Nosdrone]

Well, I guess if it is not the guild leaders fault, but Blizzards design allowing 80 hrs of game play per week to compete, then we need a cap on everything again. How much AP you can gather. How many dungeons you can run. How many attempts on a boss etc etc.

You can't do that because the addicts will complain. "WHY IS THERE A LIMIT?! IF I WANT TO POOP SOCK FOR A MONTH STRAIGHT, I SHOULD BE ABLE TOO! RABBLE RABBLE NO CONTENT."

[shaunika123]

did you even watch that?

i mean he was barely serious when he said so, and framed it incredibly carefully as not to deter blame from blizzard.


way to go and take something totally out of context without any thought whatsoever

he's a 100% right about GLs burning their guilds out, but he also says that it's blizzard's fault for allowing it in the first place.

please listen to the words carefully think them through, and form an educated opinion before spouting clickbaity attention seeking nonsense like the sad idiot you are.

the content wasent though, it was based around lower

not really

anything after trilliax required 54 points on everyone or at least on the majority.

[Glorious Leader]

Working alright for me.

It works alright for most people. They are literally trying to appease a sub group of raiders who want to raid log. They need thrown under a bus. They dont represent a majority of raiders or players as a whole and even if they did their expectations are unrealistic. They will exploit every single possible advantage and complaing about having to do so. Throw them under the bus.

Why is it everyone else can make the god damn adult choice to not do content they dont like.regardless of reward?? I want mythic tier give it to me blizzard. Play it your way right

[protosync]

Everything is fine in moderation. Maybe mythic raid guilds should take that tip.

[snackfeat]

It's the developers fault for designing around a system that allows it though, the average player can't do this so they are simply left behind and the top end players feel forced to do it because the system exists. It's not a good system for either party, it's only good for the very rare person who wants to be obsessively playing on a full time schedule, who doesn't have a job or commitments, an extreme statistical outlier.

It would be better if they designed the game in a way that didn't encourage unhealthy life decisions to remain most competitive, prior to Legion your characters power was tied to weekly caps and you could not brute force your way ahead of other players just by playing more... This meant that exceptionally skilled players could play on an even playing field in progression raiding while only taking time off for new content pushes. Of course this has not been possible in Legion, if you arent near the head of the curve on pure grinding time investment your character is probably not progressed enough no matter how good you are.

It's bad game design, it really serves nobody.



Isn't that irrelevant though, you're the average joe.. You're not in a competitive situation, you're not heavily invested as a lot of these players are. The thing is if you removed the grind then these players wouldn't have to play 30 hours, yet they could still compete at the top.. Like pretty much every other expansion, having stuff to do for the hardcore shouldnt be "here is a reason to grind this dungeon forever".

It's not possible to stop split raids, if they make raid loot lockouts account wide then it will just fuck over people who raid casually on more characters and the super hardcore people will just start using multiple accounts.

[Deleted]

...unless Blizzard tones down the grindiness of their systems, they probably won't.

Regardless, if Blizzard's ultimate goal with this system was to eliminate Mythic raiding altogether, I'd agree with you. And if you read the pro-Blizzard responses in this thread, you'd actually agree that's a good decision.

Fuck me for enjoying something, I guess.

How is mythic raiding eliminated? Only the race is (well, not even that).

If mythic gets nerfed somewhere along the way to 7.2, more people will clear it just fine, maybe even without 54 traits.
Even before nerfs, more and more guilds will come along and clear it, just like in every expansion before.

[dacoolist]

I don't think it's the guild leaders fault 100% for burn out, but I do feel like ultra high level progression RL's can really put people in a bad place when it comes to time commitments. Do I give a damn though: Hell no

[Nosdrone]

Everything is fine in moderation. Maybe mythic raid guilds should take that tip.

It's even a tip when you log into the game.

[schwarzkopf]

"We shouldn't design our game around people playing it 80 hours a week."

Yep - and people choosing to play 80 hours a week either enjoy it or are stupid ... either way they can't complain.

[Deleted]

So why do they tune mythic raiding towards requiring 54 traits and split clears. They could have easily made artifact not scale above 35 traits first couple of weeks in raids and tune around that and then have it go up 5 traits or whatever every 2 weeks as a means to nerf the content and help worse guilds.
Try going mythic with like 40 traits and without more less full NH heroic gear and see how well you do, even top guilds would still be stuck on pre nerf star augur/elisande. Blizzard sets the bar, top guilds reach it, not other way around.
There are million ways to alleviate the HC players without disturbing the more casual players, they chose not to do anything and then they blame it on guilds who are only reaching the bar blizzard themselves set.
Same thing goes for split clears, i have no clue how to solve the issue without messing how well tuned mythic raids are but once again mythic is tuned around having more or less full heroic gear, try going mythic with only 1 full clear on mains behind you, see how well that goes, but that is once again blizzard setting the bar and players reaching it.

And biggest issue of split clears is that it's cancer for pretty much everyone involved but it's very good for quality of raids itself, the amazing tuning we've been seeing for years now is on the back of split clears cause devs can expect exactly what kind of gear 99% of players in raid will have and tune accordingly.

[IceMan1763]

how
tell us ow do you get rid of split raids...

We're not the designers... that's their job to figure it out. Also, it's something even Ion has mentioned he would like to put an end to.

But, just to spitball, why not all personal loot with bad luck protection built in? Nothing changes the first 10 times you kill a boss, but you slowly increase your chance to get any item as you approach 20 times. That's ~5 months of kills until you are guaranteed the item. Farm is more meaningful, loot choices easier, etc.. Any dedicated raider ends up with the piece they need eventually. Transmog fans cheer... it might need a tweak or two but on a baseline level I don't see why it wouldn't work.

I don't know why it's necessary to have a loot system where you can trade and the elimination of it should eliminates split raids. It also eliminates begging, which I only see as a positive change.

[Bigbazz]

It's not possible to stop split raids, if they make raid loot lockouts account wide then it will just fuck over people who raid casually on more characters and the super hardcore people will just start using multiple accounts.

Split raiding has always existed to an extent, Legion takes things to a whole new level with M+ boosting and artifact power farming. Split raiding is an issue, it's by far not the biggest issue.

[Shoat]

But... it is.

You can raid mythic difficulty without playing at such a ridiculous breakneck pace and burning yourself out, it's your own fault for desiring a world first or ream first, it's your own ludicrous competitiveness that drives you to this crazy behavior, nothing in the game forces you to destroy yourself for a tiny bit of prestige (and before someone mentions that: you do not need 54 trait points and maximum split-raiding gear to clear mythic raids).
That's the same as blaming blizzard for SC2 pros burning themselves out training 90 hours a week to keep up with other crazy competitive SC2 pros.

Competitiveness to the point of burnout is both the community's fault for setting a crazy-high bar and your own fault for attempting to meet that crazy-high bar.

[shaunika123]

How is mythic raiding eliminated? Only the race is (well, not even that).

If mythic gets nerfed somewhere along the way to 7.2, more people will clear it just fine, maybe even without 54 traits.
Even before nerfs, more and more guilds will come along and clear it, just like in every expansion before.

because the race is what keeps mythic raiders playing?

be it top 1
top 20
top 100
or top 500, mythic raiders play to beat the game as fast as they can.
and they will use every tool available to their level of play.

But... it is.

You can raid mythic difficulty without playing at such a ridiculous breakneck pace and burning yourself out, it's your own fault for desiring a world first or ream first, it's your own ludicrous competitiveness that drives you to this crazy behavior, nothing in the game forces you to destroy yourself for a tiny bit of prestige.
That's the same as blaming blizzard for SC2 pros burning themselves out training 90 hours a week to keep up with other crazy competitive SC2 pros.

Competitiveness to the point of bunrout is both the community's fault for setting a crazy-high bar and your own fault for attempting to meet that crazy-high bar.

insane competitiveness is what allowed mankind to develop so fast and so far, it's human nature, you cant ask to change that.

if you're good at something, then you're gonna do it as much as you can, it's not just wow.

how much do you think olympic gold medalists train?
how much do you think actors sacrifice for an oscar?
if you've got the ability to be the BEST IN THE WORLD at something, you're not gonna stop at mediocrity.

[Super Kami Dende]

https://clips.twitch.tv/warcraft/OpenDugongYouWHY

What a fucking ass. Seriously.

Fire this guy ASAP.

He's not wrong though.