Ion: It's the Myhic guild leaders fault for burnout

[dlhak]

Nothing is wrong here, how many guilds are farming NH Mythic right now ? 8% ? 10% ? that leaves 90% of guilds still progressing ...

[araine]

"We shouldn't design our game around people playing it 80 hours a week."

>Releases content tuned for people with 54 Artifact traits

Fuck off, Blizzard.

noone from blizzard is forcing you to grind that, and they are fixing that problem with making the ap cost insane and the reward marginal in the new paragon trait

[FelPlague]

Technically he's right, but if you look at the context Blizz is being very hypocritical here. They clearly know how to design an easier, less hardcore raid as Emerald Nightmare was. But instead of sticking with that model they went from that to ToV and now Nighthold, which are tuned around 35 and 54 traits respectively along with Legendaries. So basically they tune the raid as hard as possible then go "well its not our fault that they're playing so much to be able to clear it!"

yeah but the raids were not ment to be beat day one... your suppose to take awhile, long enough to get abit higher, also where has it been said nighthold was balanced around level 54?

[Super Kami Dende]

because the race is what keeps mythic raiders playing?

be it top 1
top 20
top 100
or top 500, mythic raiders play to beat the game as fast as they can.
and they will use every tool available to their level of play.

Wrong. most Mythic Raiders I know/play with just do Mythic because of the accomplishment. They couldn't give 2 shits if other people have done it faster or not.

[solidbear]

Hmm.. not sure why a company would lambaste their most dedicated players... Smart move Blizzard.

[snackfeat]

Split raiding has always existed to an extent, Legion takes things to a whole new level with M+ boosting and artifact power farming. Split raiding is an issue, it's by far not the biggest issue.

No, split raids was not a thing until wotlk when they added limited attempts which made guilds go in with their alts first to learn the fight before doing it on mains and that later evolved into split raids.

[MasterHamster]

The game will never find a good balance between time invested and reward if Blizzard are to cater to players that apparently can't sleep at night unless they have capped everything they can every week in an MMO.

From the start it has been clear that the Artifact trait system is supposed to always be relevant in Legion, and these people just can't come to terms with the fact that they won't always be 100% optimal. Sadly the bandwagon response to that is that they aren't "competitive".

Sorry, but Blizzard should NEVER make the mistake of catering almost solely to raid-log-out endgame ever again.

[Armourboy]

It works alright for most people. They are literally trying to appease a sub group of raiders who want to raid log. They need thrown under a bus. They dont represent a majority of raiders or players as a whole and even if they did their expectations are unrealistic. They will exploit every single possible advantage and complaing about having to do so. Throw them under the bus.

Why is it everyone else can make the god damn adult choice to not do content they dont like.regardless of reward?? I want mythic tier give it to me blizzard. Play it your way right

It's so funny and I'm laughing so much right now because so many of the same people bitch and complain about " casuals " wanting what they want. Yet here they are demanding the exact same thing. Design the game around us, not everyone else. Please save us from ourselves!

[FelPlague]

We're not the designers... that's their job to figure it out. Also, it's something even Ion has mentioned he would like to put an end to.

But, just to spitball, why not all personal loot with bad luck protection built in? Nothing changes the first 10 times you kill a boss, but you slowly increase your chance to get any item as you approach 20 times. That's ~5 months of kills until you are guaranteed the item. Farm is more meaningful, loot choices easier, etc.. Any dedicated raider ends up with the piece they need eventually. Transmog fans cheer... it might need a tweak or two but on a baseline level I don't see why it wouldn't work.

I don't know why it's necessary to have a loot system where you can trade and the elimination of it should eliminates split raids. It also eliminates begging, which I only see as a positive change.

because people HATE WITH A FUCKING PASSION personal loot, and ion has said he has wanted to, but there is no way to do it without hurting legit players
also what item is the "garunteed item" do you mean eventually a boss will just drop every item every kill? and it will just become a count down...

and no, people hate personal loot because alot of the time you do a boss, and 4 people get gear who wont use it, but cant trade it, and the other 16 people just have to accept "nothing dropped this boss" where the old loot systems where much more forgiving...

the issue is with that kind of system, yes you stop split runs, but you make gearing up for actual players take a million times longer, punishing them

[IceMan1763]

yeah but the raids were not ment to be beat day one... your suppose to take awhile, long enough to get abit higher, also where has it been said nighthold was balanced around level 54?

Because the final bosses had such tight DPS checks that they could only be beat (just barely) with two healers and all DPS at 54 traits.

Also, the raid damage coming out was so high that it would nearly one shot people with 54 traits, let alone less (remember that those traits also increase HP).

[Super Kami Dende]

The game will never find a good balance between time invested and reward if Blizzard are to cater to players that apparently can't sleep at night unless they have capped everything they can every week in an MMO.

People with no self-control often blame the Supplier and not themselves.

[Bigbazz]

@FelPlague - I don't even think that split raiding is the biggest issue for people quitting over hardcore time commitments, but removing the option of being able to coin the same boss multiple times in a week will go a long way towards reducing this. For example method advertising to get peoples 8/10 lockouts on normal/heroic during the launch of NH so they could coin Elisande and Gul'dan.

No, split raids was not a thing until wotlk when they added limited attempts which made guilds go in with their alts first to learn the fight before doing it on mains and that later evolved into split raids.

What are you trying to point out here? WOTLK came out in 2008 and it's now 2017, a lot of hardcore raiders were children when split raiding became a thing. You've made a point to argue something that is not at all relevant to the discussion. But fwiw 25man guilds would formulate raids of alts + mains in TBC to filter specific items such as Dragonspine Trophy or tier tokens.

[FelPlague]

No, split raids was not a thing until wotlk when they added limited attempts which made guilds go in with their alts first to learn the fight before doing it on mains and that later evolved into split raids.

there was split raids before wrath, example onyxia to get as many ffing scales as possible, and places like MC or BWL to get as many of your people their sets as possible...
yes it was ALOT less common... but no split raids for the super dedicated were a thing

[Super Kami Dende]

Because the final bosses had such tight DPS checks that they could only be beat (just barely) with two healers and all DPS at 54 traits.

Yeah, with people in the previous Raids gear. Its nearly as if people that Progressed normally would have higher ilvl meaning higher DPS by the time they got to that point.

SHOCKING RIGHT?!

[Archmage Alodi]

Getting to 54 doesn't even require that much time... . I got 54 traits on fire more than a month ago and i never cleared more than 10 m+ per week...

[Deleted]

https://clips.twitch.tv/warcraft/OpenDugongYouWHY

What a fucking ass. Seriously.

Fire this guy ASAP.

People who do mythic content should be expected to poopsock. If that's too much to expect from you, do LFR, normal or heroic.

[FelPlague]

People with no self-control often blame the Supplier and not themselves.

ITS MCDONALDS REASON IM SUPER FUCKING FAT
ITS THE SCHOOLS FAULT I FAILED AN EXAM I DIDENT STUDY...
ITS BLIZZARDS FAULT I HAVE TO PLAY 24/7 TO BE RAID READY
the list goes on

[IceMan1763]

because people HATE WITH A FUCKING PASSION personal loot, and ion has said he has wanted to, but there is no way to do it without hurting legit players
also what item is the "garunteed item" do you mean eventually a boss will just drop every item every kill? and it will just become a count down...

and no, people hate personal loot because alot of the time you do a boss, and 4 people get gear who wont use it, but cant trade it, and the other 16 people just have to accept "nothing dropped this boss" where the old loot systems where much more forgiving...

the issue is with that kind of system, yes you stop split runs, but you make gearing up for actual players take a million times longer, punishing them

I think you're exaggerating the hate for personal loot. Besides, with bad luck protection you would be getting something positive back in return for giving up the old, antiquated loot system. Also, I took a whole 10 seconds to think of that solution. If I worked for Blizzard, I guarantee I could come up with a solution that would satisfy 90% of the player base.

[Glorious Leader]

It's so funny and I'm laughing so much right now because so many of the same people bitch and complain about " casuals " wanting what they want. Yet here they are demanding the exact same thing. Design the game around us, not everyone else. Please save us from ourselves!

Yes exactly! Go "work for it". Its disgusting. Of course they want the game designed to better suit their lifestyle. Honestly it boils down to who blizzard is making this game for. I agree they cant please everybody but they can please.most people i think and that means throwing try hards under the bus.

[FelPlague]

People who do mythic content should be expected to poopsock. If that's too much to expect from you, do LFR, normal or heroic.

shit bucket is better, easier to clean