Ion: It's the Myhic guild leaders fault for burnout

[Stormspark]

The mythic raiders that are experiencing this burnout that Ion was referring to are such a miniscule fraction of the playerbase that they don't matter. They are something like 0.01% of the playerbase. Designing the game around them is stupid. Catering to people that have to have everything maxed out immediately just results in no content for anyone else. See WOD.

[qwikz]

Who cares he's a faggot selling a product to as many retards as possible.

Your post is kind of dickish, but the bluntness of it made me laugh really hard. Good one!

[cFortyfive]

Caps mean my weekends are now limited in what I can do.

Still making a mountain out of a grain of sand.

Hypocrisy is always entertaining.
Anyways a limitation you and your peers likely wouldn't even recognize since it takes you like what probably a whole day to make as much ap as a decent group in two hours. That said I even made other proposals - how about scaling the ap gained in raid content and high level mythics waayyyy up would that hurt your causal feelings ?

[Deleted]

Playing Legion since launch, had a 3-4 week break and leveld an alt to 110. I consider myself a casual player, raiding 2 times a week and only heroic. I had 54 traits on my main character 2 weeks before nighthold dropped. It didn't feel forced, i was just playing the game. If you have to split raid with 5 alts, ofc it's hard to keep up, so I can see the point Ion is making. They can not design the Game around the 3-4% Hardcore Mythic raiders with 5+ split alts. They're taking a good direction with the coming changes, and I'm looking forward to the future of Legion. The only problem for me is the Legendary system but that is another case

[Relapses]

Considering players raiding at mythic levels WILL have already grinded a ludicrous amount of AP before the patch even starts... Wouldn't count on it.

And really, I don't care if they change it or not.

None of that AP means anything. Blizzard already noted that AP obtained before 7.2 will not be usable. (That's why you can vendor tokens now.) We'll have to wait and see how things pan out for hardcore raiders but it does at the very least seem like Blizzard is trying to curb chaining M+'s as an effective, sustainable way to farm AP.

In the meantime, I don't think it's any more productive to pretend the current problems Mythic raiders have are inconsequential. In the grander scheme of things, perhaps, but the problems do exist and telling people to "just find a new guild" or quit the fucking game is a pretty radical stance on the subject. Ion feeding into this mentality by deflecting blame onto raid leaders is also pretty infuriating. I do hope Blizzard has learned something from this because as I said, if they keep a style like 7.1.5's in play for next expansion, it'll be terrible for Mythic raiding.

[cFortyfive]

Oh. Wait.

Not that this was even the point since the proposal was to give mythic players means to acquire more ap in content they do which again certainly can't have any influence on your precious casuals - sure because ak is changing what content is way more efficient to grind ap . But thanks for the laugh I hope you put some of that valuable time you have not playing the game in education.

[Deleted]

Or it'll fix itself over time by getting rid of the people who are like you.

Does the possibility of a solution which doesn't involve "getting rid of" people who enjoy an aspect of the game even cross your mind?

That doesn't seem to be all that uncommon attitude among these people. Criticize an aspect of the game, receive hateful ad hominems. "No, there's nothing wrong, but you are stupid and should be gotten rid of!"

It reminds me of certain "progressive" political arguments seen here.

[cFortyfive]

Maybe not, but the patch notes are. Which you'd know if you could read the front page at a second grade reading level.

But hey, I mean you keep cutting out my posts instead of responding to the points, and instead trying to throw insults around, so I guess I should expect that you don't have any good points at this point.

Sure sure so what's your issue again with rewarding notably more ap for high level mythic+ and mythic raids ? Please give me your valuable points as an expert I mean proposing to award a lot more ap for mythic raids and high level mythic + is not the same as ak just to spell it out for you

[cFortyfive]

You mean like they're already doing?

I said a lot. Not their small bandaid. At some point a million ap becomes kinda a joke especially for content you can't do yet with your eyes closed.

[Relapses]

You said you're feeling the burn out. Play less, you won't feel the burnout.
You said people are making you feel obligated to do the grind. Play less. Don't feel obligated to do the grind, because you're not.
You said your guild requires it. Play less. Don't be in that guild, as they aren't a guild which fits your needs.

What you're advocating doesn't exist.

[Charge me Doctor]

Wow people choose to play the game on 5+ alts, grind all the content for all these characters and get burned out quickly? Seriously blizz what the fuck? Should probably put a roadblock somewhere, because made up "competitive race" for world first is srs bsns

[Vorality]

Why is it Blizzard's responsibility to baby-sit their users?

If someone is raiding on 5 alts every week, and they get burnout, its their fault. They are choosing to play this way. No one is forcing them to, and if their guild IS forcing them to then again its their fault for being in such a cruddy guild.

Quit trying to abdicate responsibility for your actions and trying to blame Blizzard for your failings. That shit is so fucking old. Grow the fuck up already.

Completely wrong. Playing alts has always been a thing. Blizzard for whatever reason in Legion have made it a pain in the ass to play alts. It's bullshit to get to 110, do all the questing to get a a lot of AP from suramar, play a ton just to get AP and Legendaries, etc...and then you don't get the good legendaries and you find out you wasted your time because the system is BULLSHIT. Playing the same damn character for months on end that you happened to get lucky on gets boring as hell. People need variety to stay interested. All Blizzard needs to do is reduce the amount of AP it takes to get to 54 once you have one character there already. And make legendaries literally farmable. I shouldn't have to rely on luck to make my character as good as some lucky person. I should be able to go out and farm for a few hours a night for currency, whether that be through world mobs, dungeons or raids...and eventually be able to buy whatever legendary I want through MY hard work.

Everyone's hard work in this expansion is completely thrown in the garbage when there's this much RNG and farm involved. The AP grind is fine for one character, maybe two...but to have all your alts go through the same grind? Asinine..

[lanesia24]

https://clips.twitch.tv/warcraft/OpenDugongYouWHY

What a fucking ass. Seriously.

Fire this guy ASAP.

If any of you people care what people that play like 80 hours a week do then you are avery very stupid individual and nothing more needs to be said. Honestly, if you are crying about that quote you are a complete idiot.

The world first race means absolutely nothing whatsoever. People could farm up gear a bit from lower mythic bosses if they don't wanna play 80 hours a week or grind that much AP. It's a choice they make and they have no one to blame but themselves because they want to be the first at something completely insignificant in life.

[Relapses]

Yes, it does. Playing less is a real possibility. Never thought I'd actually have to explain that you DON'T have to be playing the game at all times to someone.

In the terms of what I've been saying this entire fucking time, it doesn't. Since I wish to continue raiding at a Mythic level, the only other option is to raid at a level lower than what I consider satisfactory. Jesus fuck dude, quit being obtuse.

[Charge me Doctor]

In the terms of what I've been saying this entire fucking time, it doesn't. Since I wish to continue raiding at a Mythic level, the only other option is to raid at a level lower than what I consider satisfactory. Jesus fuck dude, quit being obtuse.

You don't need fuckton of alts to raid mythic, you don't even need54 levels in artifact to do that. It sure helps, but you don't need that

[MyndZero]

Ion is right though. They can't design the game for a literal 0.01% of the player base. World first guilds problems are exclusive to them for how they perceive their game experience should be.

[Deleted]

If you can't take it, then mythic is obviously not for you.
I don't see why Blizzard should babysit bunch of entitled gamers who don't have self-control.

[ls-]

In the meantime, I don't think it's any more productive to pretend the current problems Mythic raiders have are inconsequential. In the grander scheme of things, perhaps, but the problems do exist and telling people to "just find a new guild" or quit the fucking game is a pretty radical stance on the subject. Ion feeding into this mentality by deflecting blame onto raid leaders is also pretty infuriating. I do hope Blizzard has learned something from this because as I said, if they keep a style like 7.1.5's in play for next expansion, it'll be terrible for Mythic raiding.

The solution is to play WoW less and to refrain from grinding. However, it simply doesn't work for a certain group of people who used to spent RL money on new accounts, realm and/or account char tansfers, etc to overcome limitations that were set by Blizzard to protect players from themselves. Did you forget HC ICC in WotLK? I still remember it.

As an ex-hardcore raider I honestly don't think there's a way to save hardcore players from themselves w/o hurting less hardcore players, it means that if Blizz decided to protect hardcore community they'd have to hurt less hardcore, casual and filthily casual players, and thus hurt majority of playerbase. Someone will ALWAYS suffer, and obv the fewer people suffer the better

-- edit #1

Blizzard have already tried many things to save hardcore players from burning out, but every time they came up w/ something new, hardcore crowd simply brute-forced all limitations either by playing for unhealthy amounts of time, or by spending RL money on character/account services, BTW, that's the reason why many restrictions on said services appeared. But at the end of the day only less hardcore players were affected by newly introduced restrictions.

[cFortyfive]

"A lot" is nonspecific. How much is "A lot"?

If you mean "Make it so I can finish my artifact power in a day or two so I don't have to feel like I have to grind it," let me remind you that's still a grind, and then it'd be done and nobody would have anything to do with it anymore. Which would in turn make it a useless system for casual players, as then it's just yet another grind to be completed.

While that obviously isn't what I proposed could you elaborate why someone finishing the grind within a faster time frame than yourself by doing content you aren't able to do would make the system useless for casual players ? Such a nonsensical argument the grind as of now for the next patch is excessively long so even getting say 20 times as much as ap for mythic content as currently wouldn't really break anything.
Significantly bringing up legendary drop chances and ap for upper end content would change absolutely nothing for casuals but fix any form of issue basically instantly.

you don't even need54 levels in artifact to do that. It sure helps, but you don't need that

Again one of those - put your money where your mouth is gather your plebs and raid with 40 points and sephuz. And please stream it.

As an ex-hardcore raider I honestly don't think there's a way to save hardcore players from themselves w/o hurting less hardcore players

You kinda lack even basic imagination.

[Deleted]

Again one of those - put your money where your mouth is gather your plebs and raid with 40 points and sephuz. And please stream it.

Frequently do. Some haven't even completed their class hall quests yet and are missing relic slots. We're at 3/10 HC currently. Still having hell of a good time and there's plenty of content and bosses left. But I'm not attention seeking rankings whore, so why should I stream it? We play for fun and fun only.

But each to their own I guess. Have fun in your 5% mythic bubble and 24/7 MoS. I guess that's only for Really Tough Guys, who can take the punishment. Do you often beat yourself with your own belt as well? Maybe you could ask Blizzard to send someone to personally watch over you?