Don't join HC PuGs - Thank You

[grexly75]

Ahh gotta love it when the OP decides to start casual bashing.. When it comes to pugs you are always dealing with the unknown element, since you have no idea how your potential new raid member is going to work out..

Also proving grounds mean squat, there were many times in WoD heroic dungeons where people still stood in crap even after doing proving grounds..

[Deleted]

I did PuG creating it myself NM and HC since week 1 clearing 10/10, with my hunter until i fishined gearing it (because i had all BiS gear from there hi hunter 904 equipped without do any myth boss but shitty legends) and now im doing it too with my warr, every week i complete it without troubles (the worst week was the first one, the rest not more than 4 wipes in total). Almost every week when i finish the raid alway got like 1 or 2 whisps saying things like: Best raid leader in a pug i've ever seen, or great leadership boss.

What i want to say with this? Maybe, and only maybe PuG sucks because you join in bad groups or if you create the group, just getting everyone who has the ilvl req + Aotc and dont check things like wowprogress to see how many ilvl equipped he has or how many times did he killed every boss makes that a bad group.

I dont raid in a guild group since cata, but before of that i was a hardcore player (doing server firsts in TBC and all that shit), that part of my life is gone, now i'm a casual pleb who dont want to do more than HC,but if you have a little bit of knowledge of how people works in wow its really easy to do a great PuG raid(mostly on wed or thur).

The thing is most of people dont want to wait 1-2 hours to create a raid and then the shit happens, for me is better wait 2 hours to create a great raid and clear NH HC in like 2 hours than create it in 30 mins and stay there for 4-5 hours.

TL;DR - In my experience PuG are far better than guild raids if you are not aiming for mythic raids

Sounds like I want to join your PuG:s then, I have been trying to look for HC groups every reset and weekends. They just want to see curve which I don't have and groups which invites, when I write "flask food pots etc ready" and normal achievement, they'll wipe on first boss for rest of the day.

I even tried to make my own group on Guldan and checked almost everyone, well what happened? Wipe @FIRST add's 90%
I joined a new guild too, because my old stopped playing and new guild "was 10/10" progress and aiming for mythic, well ton of stupid wipes even on NORMAL.

It's so bullshit to sell these runs, people fakes achievements, links in progress achievements.

[Deleted]

Because it's not overall people in PuG that kills the whole paradigm, it's SOME people. And those people are NOT the players, there are the toxic ones:

1) First case: people is dying from random shit and crying after: "OHLEL THIS GROUP IS NOOB AND LEADER DON'T EVEN HAVE CURVE" * random has left the group *
FUCK THE LOGICCCCCCCC

2) Second case: people is not dying from random shit, actually playing quite well but demoralizing the whole team and many leave => Yeah cause in guild, you never wipe even if people are good. It's obvious ! Guilds are OSing everying even in farm mode ! ... FUCKKK THE LOGIIIIC

3) Third case: people asking for curve 2 weeks after the start of the raid in PuG, group is made after 2hours, people left in between, group will never raid actually and when it does, curved "so elite" people in it are actually not that good, wiping the raid => FUCKKK THE LOGICCCC

TL;DR: wiping is a normal procedure, PuG has become the realm of toxicity and it's entirely possible to make if for a good raid with uncurved people while asking not ilvl 885 and some things like "tell me the 2/3 most important things for your role on this boss" (it's farm more rational and proof of concept). You also mathematically better chance for success with more "attempts" than only one attempt with a "so called elite curved people" (lel) after 2 hours.

People in 1, 2, 3 cases are just bullshitters that wouldn't make it in big collaborative firms, I'm serious, as a Manager myself I wouldn't let those spirits enter my teams.
Get social skills.

Agreed. Im myself this toxic spreader I enjoy smearing that on peoples face.

But I don't like to tell goodnight stories either.

From now on, I will create my own raids. And if you PuG with me, you will see the most calm, but also the most mean leader you ever seen.

Game on casuals, see how far you get with your boosts. Someone must tell you, that you are simple too dumb for HC and that you can waste your own time(not mine).

[melodramocracy]

Oh no, I joined a group of unknown ability and we didn't one-shot everything.

[Sam the Wiser]

People who only pug have some true stamina.

[Deleted]

Not technically true, considering that a large portion of games are not multiplayer.

I guess if you're speed running Super Mario 64.

Techinically, you are already speed running Super Mario 64. You just have an excuse for not doing so.

[Deleted]

I feel privileged to raid in a guild that clears heroic in less than one raid night.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I blame multiple difficulties/raid sizes, LFR/Normal where some mechanics are pretty much non-lethal.

Old school had only 1 difficulty/size.

And it was quite possible to ignore many of the mechanics in old raids. If we went back to 1 raid difficulty for all, we'd be stuck with raids too piss easy for those wanting a challenge and too organized for those wanting just a pick-up thing.

[Doffen]

Remember Kilrogg Hc The Pugkiller?

Yeah fyi its been one month, and after one month any pug had a very hard time doing archi heroic, heck most pugs stopped at kilrogg because people didn't know how to stand in runes/killing adds or not being able to kill adds on Gorefiend. Archie normal was too hard for most pugs the first weeks. Thank god for valor points wich made pugging HFC Hc alot easier. Don't mistake last 6 months in HFC for Nighthold heroic the first month.

[SidFwuff]

Implying that being a casual is bad? Wut?

Clearly the gold standard for being a "hardcore" player is the OP:

1) Create a group in Premade
2) Grab the highest iLvl players that show up
3) Use /rw to mock players for not eating cake
4) Head off to MMO-C forums to reminisce about the missing "good" times in an 18 month old raid versus the "bad" PuGs in a 6 week old raid.

I aspire to one day hopefully climb out of the casual cesspool I'm in and stand shoulder to shoulder with the hardcore raiders here.

[Orangetai420]

We need proving grounds.

Please be more vocal about it or casual people will destroy this as well.

Proving grounds were the best content in MoP, I loved them and wish they would return.

[Sastank]

Hmmm relying on pugs to raid instead of a more reliably controlled environment like a guild? Are you one of the 900+ ILVL ZERG AP LEGGO group "leaders" or? Lol

Also calling people casuals while pugging and not in a raiding guild was top LUL

[Deleted]

I don't. I expect to clear NH, just how i/we cleared HFC HC during its glory days.

People are getting worse and worse, its horrible!

HC HFC pugs were the same 1-2 months after release. you probably remember the pugs from 8-12 months after release as "the glory days". (where people still regularly failed orb on that bird boss lol)

[Dziubla]

Things is, majority of pug leaders prefer ppl with let's say 600k dps, who tunnelvision the boss, over 400, or even 500k dps that focuses on mechanics. THAT'S why pugs are shit. Sure, there are bosses with hard enrage where you need dps too, but personally, I cleared 9/10 nh hc second week, where majority of group was between 450-350k dps, which admittedly is quite low for hc, but since mechanics were flawless, we didn't have much of a problem. Whereas lately I see ppl wiping on Krosus over 20 times, and raid leaders kicking ppl who actually soak the pools instead of tunnelvisioning the boss...

[Felarion]

And that's why i only particpate in "organised pugs" For real, try openraid or things like Fail Train Discord.

As for pugs....i think bolstering show pretty damn well how most ppl got literally 0 idea about their class utility and how to use them, aside from pumping those numbers... For example me and my little bro do Wardens +5 couple of days ago and we invite 880 mage....damm he was literally damage-buttons pressing piece of wood.

[Sabii]

guy bitching about PUGS
Blames "Causals"

seems legit..

[Deleted]

I don't. I expect to clear NH, just how i/we cleared HFC HC during its glory days.

People are getting worse and worse, its horrible!

Create your own or join organized raiding. Pugs are pugs are pugs. Sometimes you are lucky, sometimes you are not. Deal with it.

[Wrecktangel]

My pug experience has been hit or miss, but I accept it for what it is. I have been in amazing groups like this week, or less than amazing groups sometimes.
I accept it because my work schedule makes it difficult to realistically commit to consistent schedule.
When I had more time, I would be in a raiding guild, and if I had to option, I would be in a raiding guild now also.

I like what that one guy said where if you put in the time and check wowprogress etc, you can put together a group of individual players that meet or sometimes exceed players in a normal or heroic guild.

I cannot speak for others, but in the interest of my own time, I aim for PuG NH groups that show higher signs of success, and I put in genuine effort to do my best not only with dps but mechanics. I have impressed people who offered me a raid spot but my schedule didn't make it realistic. Groups that I find are more successful (in my experience) are upfront and say things like for example "baddies will be kicked" and/or other expectations. I tend to avoid groups that do not list any expectations, requirements (no ilvl requirement for example). I stay far away from NH groups that appear in NH but the title says "Chicken BBQ yo"


TL : DR
Use the group finder title to help you judge. The stricter the requirements, the more likely the group will succeed.

[Thimagryn]

This is my call out. I hope we get some sort of proving grounds thing for raids.

Yes, because the people joining your games frequent MMO-C and will be listening to your complaints. Smart thinking!

[orgonutil]

allow leaders to inspect gear and achievements from who apply to pugs, will not solve all problems but will help alot