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  1. #721
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Sweetheart this is nothing like a Korean grindfest. This isn't even on par with the early MMO grinds. Also end of the day Ion is right. Devs aren't there to protect the players from their lack of self control of making 5 alts and doing split runs among other things. If you want to make a fuckton of alts and do split runs and endlessly grind AP then that's your decision.
    Please stop calling me and other people on this forum sweetheart... I've seen you do it 100s of times and you MUST know (unless you're an idiot) how incredibly condescending it is.

    Blizzard sets the playing field. If your goal is world first, all you can is play the board as Blizzard sets it. That's my entire point. Ion and his team set what are, in essence, the rules and requirements by allowing or disallowing certain behaviors.. it's the pinnacle of arrogance to then blame guilds whose goal is world first for playing the only way they can accomplish that goal.

    Unless Ion and his team simply do not care about the world first race... but if that's the case, they should at least be men about it and admit it.

  2. #722
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarevokcz View Post
    probably about the fact, that they couldnt complete it in their social guilds eventually if gearing had no impact on the difficulty?
    I said a special competitive version. All other versions would remain as normal, so people could scale into them. Basically, you'd go into mythic, queue as "competitive" and there would be a special achieve marking your completion of that mode specifically.

  3. #723
    Quote Originally Posted by IceMan1763 View Post
    https://clips.twitch.tv/warcraft/OpenDugongYouWHY

    What a fucking ass. Seriously.

    Fire this guy ASAP.
    It is the guild leader's fault. Its the players fault as well. You aren't method. You arent Serenity. You don't need split raids to do mythic. Quit trying to be someone you aren't. Id actually love for them to get rid of mythic all together. Up heroic to somewhere between heroic and mythic and call it a day. Its straight unhealthy to no life a game on energy drinks for weeks on end.

    I bet if blizzard put limited attempts in, the 1 percenters would freak the fuck out. They cant protect you from yourself.

  4. #724
    Loving the topic.

    Is it the druggies fault or the drug dealers? xDDDD
    Money talks, bullshit walks..

  5. #725
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turaska View Post
    He's not wrong though? he's just brutally honest and people don't want to admit it's their own damn fault for burning out so quickly.
    Yup, I agree.

    Blizzard gives us the content. It's up to us to decide how to consume that content and how much to consume in a days time. If you're playing 80 hours a week and you're burned out that's not Blizzard's fault, it's yours for playing so god damn much. You can't blame Blizzard for your addiction unless you're one of those "BLIZZARD MADE ME THE WAY I AM!" people in which case you got some problems then. Instead of playing like 10 hours a day play 3 or 4 hours, take a break and do something else. Another game perhaps or maybe go for a walk to get that blood circulating, have something to eat/drink. Taking just a 1 or 2 minute break does a lot.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Guyv3r View Post
    Loving the topic.

    Is it the druggies fault or the drug dealers? xDDDD
    Hey the dealer is just trying to make money. He's not forcing it on anyone. People choose to go to him. Whether they get addicted or not isn't his fault.
    Last edited by Pony Soldier; 2017-02-24 at 03:08 PM.
    - "If you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or Trump, then you ain't black" - Jo Bodin, BLM supporter
    - "I got hairy legs that turn blonde in the sun. The kids used to come up and reach in the pool & rub my leg down so it was straight & watch the hair come back up again. So I learned about roaches, I learned about kids jumping on my lap, and I love kids jumping on my lap...” - Pedo Joe

  6. #726
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vuagnon View Post
    I'm talking for main. They killed playing with an alt for people with a life.

    1) When you are 54, ap means nothing. Epic drops should have been integrated into a form of contribution to make your character stronger by either enhancing your existing items or stats. It's way too stupid to make world quests to vendor epic items. Gold and resource awards aren't enough. They should have been buffed to attract end gamers. The rep items also have become meaningless. How could have they not thought about this before coming to this point? It's ridiculous.

    2) How many changes would you make between your legendaries depending on the encounter? The effect isn't substantial imo. People mostly go for bis. You can swap an item occasionally of course but is it really enough? I don't think it adds too much depth. I'm not opposed to having legendaries but they were implemented without other mechanisms that would complement them. Thats why it feels like they were incentives to keep people around to buy some time because people would obviously understand that something is seriously missing at some point, which is why we are discussing it here right now.

    3) Rng needs to exist. The problem is having no alternative path to decrease its impact.

    4) The pathing and terrain feels like they have been trying to buy time for delaying flight. The scaling isn't satisfactory for the events going on. A larger continent and flight without time gate would be a lot better for players but greed obviously doesn't allow that to happen.

    5) Recieving upgrades outside raiding is okay. However that also is completely at the mercy of rng, which is not okay. Switching specs alone isn't enough to say that there are choices to be made. The real choice should be inside a spec. A much more sophisticated talent and stat system such that there are actual ways of excelling in different areas. AP grind isn't that hard. Even if it was hard for casuals, there are also many people who don't bother swapping specs. So it's no where near enough.

    6 is tied with the randomness and the boredom it creates after a certain period of time.

    I don't think people should blame Blizzard because the game can be played limitlessly but because the game lacks the mechanics to make the time spent more meaningful and valuable.
    You're still able to play an alt if you want, it just won't be on the same level as your main, which I think is fine.

    1) True, this will be solved in 7.2 when the new traits are exponentially more expensive rather than linear. The rep items serve a purpose in 7.2, there you will be able to continue to gain reputation with a faction past exalted, and gain additional chests each time you fill their bar.

    2) As a tank I already have the Legendaries I want and won't be exchanging them at all, Prydaz and the Legendary trinket. But that's preferentially based as I really like the absorption shields, min-max wise later on I might be better off switching around based on the encounter. Ion mentioned that even some of the hardcore raiders used Prydaz in some of their progression, which shows the strength of a Legendary that many previously hated and thought useless. So I think there's plenty of room to switch around between Legendaries based on the situation, but I don't have any examples at this time.

    3) Hm, what would you suggest would help here?

    4) I honestly don't think they designed the terrain in that way deliberately, I haven't noticed any real difference from WoD or Legion's terrain from MoP/Cata's/Wrath's where you could fly.

    5) They've tried giving us choices within specs via talents and glyphs, it hasn't worked out as people still expect to be able to switch talent on a moment's notice. Even now in Legion where you can't change talents at will but require a tome or rested area, people switch all the time rendering the "choice" meaningless. The intention behind specs and talents is to reflect that person's decisions, to differentiate a player of class X from another player of class X. So far I would say Legion has done this best via Artifact Power and weapons.

    I think if we could limit RNG and target specific rewards even more than we can now, we would quickly enter the territory of obtaining BIS and running out of things to do, giving further incentive to play the game non-stop and burn out even faster.
    Last edited by mmocf8e5b938a8; 2017-02-24 at 02:58 PM.

  7. #727
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceMan1763 View Post
    Blizzard sets the playing field. If your goal is world first, all you can is play the board as Blizzard sets it. That's my entire point. Ion and his team set what are, in essence, the rules and requirements by allowing or disallowing certain behaviors.. it's the pinnacle of arrogance to then blame guilds whose goal is world first for playing the only way they can accomplish that goal.
    Blizzard simply sets some boundaries within in which to play. If your goal is world first, your requirement is to play the game harder and smarter than your competition. Burnout doesn't happen because Blizzard implemented their AP system. It happens because a guild pushes itself too hard in an attempt to beat a better guild. It's that simple.

  8. #728
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    or what is much more possible looking at mythic raiding scene from last couple of years you will loose your most capable raiders who will pursue better progressed guild who do force people to farm and your guild will hit the never ending "i recruited 3 trials but lost 2 o my best performing raiders at the same time" -_-
    Happened once. He got burnt out, quit, and came back to us after a 1 month hiatus.

    *shrug*

    I agree with Ion. This is a cultural issue among top end guilds and they have to ****ing chill.

  9. #729
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    No it has not been confirmed and all Ion said was that the traits were basically overpowered. The fact is people are trying to rush the fuck through the damn mythic raid when the raid is made to last until Tomb of Sargeras is released. You know the feat of strength.
    when talking about the latest datamined info regarding the new paragon trait coming in 7.2 and how they would have done things differently regarding the 7.0 version was that they "wouldn't balance around it going forward".

  10. #730
    My friends and I watched all episodes of a show over the weekend, we didn't sleep. Now we are exhausted, also the show was nice but it lasted for ONLY A WEEKEND and we have no interest in that show anymore. Very bad producers for allowing this to happen, should be fired and never make another show!
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Blizzard do what the players want all the time.

  11. #731
    Quote Originally Posted by IceMan1763 View Post
    Please stop calling me and other people on this forum sweetheart... I've seen you do it 100s of times and you MUST know (unless you're an idiot) how incredibly condescending it is.

    Blizzard sets the playing field. If your goal is world first, all you can is play the board as Blizzard sets it. That's my entire point. Ion and his team set what are, in essence, the rules and requirements by allowing or disallowing certain behaviors.. it's the pinnacle of arrogance to then blame guilds whose goal is world first for playing the only way they can accomplish that goal.

    Unless Ion and his team simply do not care about the world first race... but if that's the case, they should at least be men about it and admit it.
    Got a problem with it then feel free to report me to the mods. You called the game a Korean grindfest when it is nothing on par with one. Also think I've said it like 3 times not the "100s" you claim in the past year. But nice to see you making up numbers to be over dramatic about it.

    This game is far from being on par with Korean MMOs. Hell it's far away from being on par with pre 2004 MMOs.

    Also if your goal is world first you will play as hard as you can no matter what. Kind of the whole point of being a world first guild. It's not unique to Legion.
    Last edited by Eleccybubb; 2017-02-24 at 03:06 PM.

  12. #732
    Quote Originally Posted by Brule View Post
    Hey the dealer is just trying to make money. He's not forcing it on anyone. People choose to go to him. Whether they get addicted or not isn't his fault.
    Exactly. 39 pages for the obvious :P
    Money talks, bullshit walks..

  13. #733
    Herald of the Titans Orangetai420's Avatar
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    It's kinda sad that so many people blame blizzard for their hopeless addiction and lack of self control. If you are burnt out its your own fault. Mythic raiders are the biggest cry babies I've ever seen in gaming.
    MMO-C, home of the worst community on the internet.

  14. #734
    Quote Originally Posted by Orangetai420 View Post
    It's kinda sad that so many people blame blizzard for their hopeless addiction and lack of self control. If you are burnt out its your own fault. Mythic raiders are the biggest cry babies I've ever seen in gaming.
    Pretty much this. Addiction is on you. Not the game companies.

    I had a major addiction to FF11 when I was younger and it was really hard to let go. Did I blame Square Enix? Did I knackers. My fault for getting so addicted in the first place.

  15. #735
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Pretty much this. Addiction is on you. Not the game companies.
    yup, it's like blaming McDonalds for making you fat when you eat there for every meal.
    <insert witty signature here>

  16. #736
    This is the first thing i have heard this guy say i actually agree with and respect.

  17. #737
    Quote Originally Posted by Orangetai420 View Post
    It's kinda sad that so many people blame blizzard for their hopeless addiction and lack of self control. If you are burnt out its your own fault. Mythic raiders are the biggest cry babies I've ever seen in gaming.
    Exactly this.

    I'm dead serious, Blizzard needs to open a hotline for addicts. Maybe a 21-day outpatient clinic for Mythic raiders to ween them off the drug. Show them what else the world has to offer.

    Remember to take everything in moderation, even World of Warcraft!
    A crossfitter, a vegan, an atheist, and a vanilla WoW player all walked into a bar. I know because they all told me within 3 minutes.

    World of Warcraft: Dying on MMO Champion since 2004

    Pre-Alpha WoW tester since 2002.


  18. #738
    Quote Originally Posted by DSRilk View Post
    Let's say they tuned it lower. One guild, in order to get world first, would still play at those hours. Then all the other guilds would have to do the same to compete, returning to the cycle of complaints about it being required. It would just be "required" for a different reason. The only way to make it an actual competition would be to make a specific competitive raid "level" (mythic or a new one called "competitive") work off a base fixed template of stats so gear no longer matters, like they do for PvP. Then there would be no need for grinding anything. I'm sure people would still complain about something, however.
    Mythic (before that heroic) raiding worked almost exactly how you describe before Legion, they just used BIS gear from the relevant sources (dungeons/previous raid tiers/etc.) instead of templates. This gave a tuning point devs could work around, and then they could properly tune a raid where you needed gear from earlier bosses to progress to later ones. This is why well tuned raids lasted much longer in the past. Since they can turn off AP Traits (they do it for PVP), they could have disabled paragon traits for NH and then slowly turned them on (this would be almost equivalent to how ICC worked). They chose not to do that. Why? Because they just don't take Mythic raiding seriously, in my opinion. They just don't care about fairness which makes it extra hypocritical to then blame guild leaders for playing the cards they are dealt.

    The addition of AP is the big contributor (according to the guilds themselves and MANY other customers/players) to the extra feeling of grindiness. That being said, split raiding is also a problem that has been acknowledged by Ion in the past. I just wish he would take addressing it more seriously rather than throw 100s upon 100s of dev hours into unpopular "features" like legiondaries and paragon traits.

    And yes, people will always complain about something, but that's just life in general and not an excuse for poor design choices or to avoid trying to make positive changes.

  19. #739
    Quote Originally Posted by Nosdrone View Post
    Exactly this.

    I'm dead serious, Blizzard needs to open a hotline for addicts. Maybe a 21-day outpatient clinic for Mythic raiders to ween them off the drug. Show them what else the world has to offer.

    Remember to take everything in moderation, even World of Warcraft!
    Yep even the loading screen tells you to take it in moderation. Even Blizzard themselves tell you to gtfo once in a while. Another one

    "Bring your friends to Azeroth, but don't forget to go outside Azeroth with them as well."

    Also

    "The Parental Controls section of the Account Management site offers tools to help you manage your play time."

    Hell you can even manage your play time and force yourself off.

  20. #740
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    The exponential AK system does mean less grinding. But it has a downside: it encourages people to park alts until they have reached max AK, and only then farm AP.

    I'm planning to get more characters to 110 so I can start their AK clocks ticking.
    "AK clock ticking" is pretty much waiting for your main to reach AK40 and buying AK35 items. They said those are coming and I assume this means "in 7.2"... Then again, knowing Blizzard, they might delay them to 7.2.5 or something.

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