Convergence of Fates and Relics

[DakonBlackblade]

How good is this trinket without using at least 2 MA relics as well. Is it worth not using MA relics at all and going for Toxic Blades even with the trinket and considering I have no boots ? I used both AMR and simcraft, numbers are kinda close but I don't realy trust simulations when it comes to trinkets and relics, real numbers testing always vary from sims in these cases, Id like to hear ppls onpinions and experiences in this matter.

[Cunky]

How good is this trinket without using at least 2 MA relics as well. Is it worth not using MA relics at all and going for Toxic Blades even with the trinket and considering I have no boots ? I used both AMR and simcraft, numbers are kinda close but I don't realy trust simulations when it comes to trinkets and relics, real numbers testing always vary from sims in this cases, Id like to hear ppls onpinions and experiences in this matter.

CoF is a great trinket regardless of whether you have vendetta relics, however, you should think about the bonus like this:

If your Vendetta cool down is 90 seconds then reducing the cool down by 5 seconds could be worded as: "Your attacks have a chance to reduce the cool down on vendetta by 5.5%."

If your CD on vendetta is only 66 seconds, the bonus would be: "Your attacks have a chance to reduce the cooldown on your vendetta by 7.6%"

So there is a great pairing between the relics and the trinket, but they are certainly not mandatory. I do believe, however, that you should let other classes take it if you're not going to maximize its utility.

[DakonBlackblade]

CoF is a great trinket regardless of whether you have vendetta relics, however, you should think about the bonus like this:

If your Vendetta cool down is 90 seconds then reducing the cool down by 5 seconds could be worded as: "Your attacks have a chance to reduce the cool down on vendetta by 5.5%."

If your CD on vendetta is only 66 seconds, the bonus would be: "Your attacks have a chance to reduce the cooldown on your vendetta by 7.6%"

So there is a great pairing between the relics and the trinket, but they are certainly not mandatory. I do believe, however, that you should let other classes take it if you're not going to maximize its utility.

That the pairing is great I know, the question is if it is great enought to trumph higher ilevel Toxic Blades relics considering I don't have Duskwalkers. Or even if its great enought to trumph just runing a different trinket and swaping the relics for Toxic Blades ones. I relay wish relics werent destroyed when swaping so I could properly test these things, this decision of making relics disapear when swapped was the worst thing Blizzard has ever done.

[Cunky]

That the pairing is great I know, the question is if it is great enought to trumph higher ilevel Toxic Blades relics considering I don't have Duskwalkers. Or even if its great enought to trumph just runing a different trinket and swaping the relics for Toxic Blades ones. I relay wish relics werent destroyed when swaping so I could properly test these things, this decision of making relics disapear when swapped was the worst thing Blizzard has ever done.

You can sim relics without putting them on. There are guides online that show how to do it. Lets not get too dramatic here.

[DakonBlackblade]

You can sim relics without putting them on. There are guides online that show how to do it. Lets not get too dramatic here.

Sims and actual real numbers aren't exactly the same. I said on the OP I used simC and used AMR for every scenario but that doesn't mean the numebrs I got are right. Simulations are aproximations on pre defined scenarios and the results were often close enought for each variation I tested to mean they aren't actualy different considering simulations have a margin of error. If I could swap relics I could have real numbers wich is what Im asking here, Im trying to see if anyone has actualy tested these different scenarios and not just simmed it.

[Deleted]

That the pairing is great I know, the question is if it is great enought to trumph higher ilevel Toxic Blades relics considering I don't have Duskwalkers. Or even if its great enought to trumph just runing a different trinket and swaping the relics for Toxic Blades ones. I relay wish relics werent destroyed when swaping so I could properly test these things, this decision of making relics disapear when swapped was the worst thing Blizzard has ever done.

Well, try to see it from the logical perspective. The basic idea is to reduce your best cooldown as much as possible. This can only be achieved if you have boots and MA relics. So by just using CoF without boots and MA relics you can apply napkin math and find out at which lenght of a fight CoF would grant you an extra Vendetta due to cdr. I assume it starts somewhere at 5-6m+ fights. Then you gotta ask yourself, is it worth to drop 3 x TB, which is like a ~ 1,7-2% dps gain for an extra Vendetta. I dont think so, taking into consideration that you would wear another trinket, for example DoS which can be at 12% or frond, which can be at 7%. In addition, you wont be able to align Vendetta with KB.

To me its only worth it to use CoF if you have boots. You will then be able to fit in more Vendettas in shorter fights even aligning them perfectly with KB by using 2 x MA and 1 x TB. So tbh and without using any sims, i wouldnt use CoF without boots and relics.

There is maybe another situation when using CoF wiht 3 x MA, which could grant you more Vednettas even in short fights, but i am not sure about that since i i never tried it. Dont have CoF, but boots with 3 x MA tho.

- - - Updated - - -

So basically the question is, does one Vendetta make up for ~ 7-9% of your dps?

[ymirsson]

So basically the answer is, sim it.

[Deleted]

So basically the answer is, sim it.

He apparently did, but is not like 99% of the community following some suggestions a machine did generate for him. I am not saying Sims lie or whatever, i also do sim but i also try to approve it by inagme testing. I am not just following suggestions. Same in his case, i am pretty sure Sims will say that you dont want to use CoF without boots or 3 x MA relics, but he is just asking for some clarification. As i said, 1 Vendetta wont make up for 7-10% of dps which he would get through TB relics and another trinket.

[shaunika123]

if you dont have boots+MA cof isnt bis, but it's still a decent trinket

[DakonBlackblade]

He apparently did, but is not like 99% of the community following some suggestions a machine did generate for him. I am not saying Sims lie or whatever, i also do sim but i also try to approve it by inagme testing. I am not just following suggestions. Same in his case, i am pretty sure Sims will say that you dont want to use CoF without boots or 3 x MA relics, but he is just asking for some clarification. As i said, 1 Vendetta wont make up for 7-10% of dps which he would get through TB relics and another trinket.

Pretty much this, since swaping relics is definitive I was trying to see if someone had actualy tested these scenarios in game before making my decision and regretting it later.

[ymirsson]

But taking advice from other players is just as good or bad as taking advice from a simulation. I cannot see a any argument making player advice coming from a completely different game situation be more or less true then a well adjusted simulation. It's an approximation at best in both cases.

[Mistborne]

DakonBlack - on Tuesday I got both CoF and then duskwalker's boots 2 fights later.

Before getting the boots, I still saw a dramatic increase in my dps from just swapping in CoF for an 870 EoC (with my 3xMA). It was roughly 20K after removing poison bomb dmg from the equation. Obviously, your results may vary depending on duration of the fight, but I certainly saw a jump.

Then the boots dropped and my dps jumped significantly more from having both boots and CoF - I also replaced 1 MA with a higher-level envenom relic.

Hope that helps.

[Deleted]

[QUOTE=Mistborne;44720622]DakonBlack - on Tuesday I got both CoF and then duskwalker's boots 2 fights later.

Before getting the boots, I still saw a dramatic increase in my dps from just swapping in CoF for an 870 EoC (with my 3xMA). It was roughly 20K after removing poison bomb dmg from the equation. Obviously, your results may vary depending on duration of the fight, but I certainly saw a jump.

Then the boots dropped and my dps jumped significantly more from having both boots and CoF - I also replaced 1 MA with a higher-level envenom relic.

Hope that helps.[QUOTE]

Do you have a log of that raid? i am kinda curious where that dramatic increase came form since that agi flat stick is nearly the same and you might have had just 1 extra Vendetta depending on the fights.