Unholy buff Feb 21

[cordrann]

what caster gets more energy regen or similar things

Balance or elemental would be the easiest direct example, faster cast times means faster astral power/maelstrom.

[Flextt]

You dont really need frost legendarys to do well with BoS. They make it really really good, but BoS is strong even without legos. Also BoS is not about how long you can keep it up, but how much dmg you fit into that window.

I agree, BoS is a solid spec for Frost right now, even without specific Legendaries. However your sentence is mindboggingly wrong. Look at top level parses and Runic Power availability. Without Ring or Belt, you perform roughly 20-30% worse than against FDK BoS with either. Runic Power levels at a constant 80-100 allow easier stacking of GS and usage of Rime procs, while BoS will constantly bring in new runes for you.

BoS uptime and the ease of keeping the uptime high are the most determining factors for your DPS.

[Poisongaz]

I agree, BoS is a solid spec for Frost right now, even without specific Legendaries. However your sentence is mindboggingly wrong. Look at top level parses and Runic Power availability. Without Ring or Belt, you perform roughly 20-30% worse than against FDK BoS with either. Runic Power levels at a constant 80-100 allow easier stacking of GS and usage of Rime procs, while BoS will constantly bring in new runes for you.

BoS uptime and the ease of keeping the uptime high are the most determining factors for your DPS.

No I fucking isnt. Helm is far and away the best legendary you can get as frost. BoS isa about how much dmg you can fit in the burst window. It is a BURST CD. Not a sustain CD. Also read what I said. "You don't NEED legendarys to do well with BoS." That doing well does not mean having 95+ parses on every boss. In a world where any type of through put legenardys exist. You statement is so "mindbogglingly" stupid to use your words. It like you didn;t read my post at all, but instead jumped on the shit post train.

[Deleted]

Yes haste makes our dot tick faster.

No, it does not and never did.

- - - Updated - - -

Then im mistaken with past xpacs dks im pretty sure they used to scale.

Again no, they didn't.

[Hctaz]

As a raider who has an unholy dk on his team, I can say that with the BiS leggos unholy is pretty good actually.

[Flextt]

No I fucking isnt. Helm is far and away the best legendary you can get as frost. BoS isa about how much dmg you can fit in the burst window. It is a BURST CD. Not a sustain CD. Also read what I said. "You don't NEED legendarys to do well with BoS." That doing well does not mean having 95+ parses on every boss. In a world where any type of through put legenardys exist. You statement is so "mindbogglingly" stupid to use your words. It like you didn;t read my post at all, but instead jumped on the shit post train.

Thanks to the hard work of Demeisen over in the trinket specc with a reworked sim profile (HRW lined up with BoS, longer fight times), I stand by my statements. Although I admit there might be confirmation bias in play. As a raw throughput legendary obviously the helmet is great for lack of alternatives. To be truly top notch however you will require some sort of extra resource generation.

Also stop shitting yourself.

[Deleted]

As a raider who has an unholy dk on his team, I can say that with the BiS leggos unholy is pretty good actually.

Bracers + any othet decent dps bellendgendaries and i agree unholy is pretty good.

[Adlian]

Bracers + any othet decent dps bellendgendaries and i agree unholy is pretty good.

Now compare Unholy with equally/skilled geared Frost DK and overall equally/skilled geared raid grp.

[spanishninja]

Now compare Unholy with equally/skilled geared Frost DK and overall equally/skilled geared raid grp.

it's part of the reason frost helm is getting nerfed. frost legendaries are now more powerful than unholy legendaries.

[Zensunni]

As a raider who has an unholy dk on his team, I can say that with the BiS leggos unholy is pretty good actually.

No it's not. It's barely middle of the pack. I'm parsing in the mid 90s for my ilevel on Krosus and still being crushed by tons of people parsing in the 70s on stronger classes.

[Deleted]

No it's not. It's barely middle of the pack. I'm parsing in the mid 90s for my ilevel on Krosus and still being crushed by tons of people parsing in the 70s on stronger classes.

For unholy, im more than ok with middle of the pack

[spanishninja]

No it's not. It's barely middle of the pack. I'm parsing in the mid 90s for my ilevel on Krosus and still being crushed by tons of people parsing in the 70s on stronger classes.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...93&end=3464999

i dunno. i'm competing just fine with other 90s parsers, thank you.

[Poisongaz]

Thanks to the hard work of Demeisen over in the trinket specc with a reworked sim profile (HRW lined up with BoS, longer fight times), I stand by my statements. Although I admit there might be confirmation bias in play. As a raw throughput legendary obviously the helmet is great for lack of alternatives. To be truly top notch however you will require some sort of extra resource generation.

Also stop shitting yourself.

But your statement has nothing to do with what I actually said. Like of course you wont be able to parse top notice without top legendary items. And helm is the best of them. But what your trying to tell people is that up time on BoS is more important than the damage that you do while BoS is active. That is 100% just wrong. Does ring help? Yes. Does Belt help? Yes. But bracers are just as good as both of those and they are in no way necessary to do well with BoS, which was what my original post was about.

I just don't understand what you were trying to accomplish. You said that my statement was "mindboggingly" (you spelled mindbogglingly wrong btw) when what I was saying was that "you dont need good legendarys to well." Then you went off talking about top parses and how ring/belt people are doing 20% to 30% better overall when you didn't site a single source for that number. No where in that specific post was I talking about top parsing. I was talking about doing well, as in you are not a burden to your group by playing BoS without good legendarys.

Sorry to everyone reading these posts. I honestly don't even remember what I was posting about in here before this chain of nonsense.

[Hctaz]

No it's not. It's barely middle of the pack. I'm parsing in the mid 90s for my ilevel on Krosus and still being crushed by tons of people parsing in the 70s on stronger classes.

I mean I really feel like you're exaggerating. Our unholy dk usually always parses 95% and higher on every fight. Before the buffs he was middle on single target and usually pretty high up on AoE only losing to Ret pally perfect leggo divine storm spam and DHs. Now, he creams AoE fights like no problem. I'd have to take a look at Krosus though and compare. If I get another legendary that isn't Sephuz I'll let you know how we compare accurately, though if I get the helm I'll be broken OP.

[Deleted]

what caster gets more energy regen or similar things

All casters do?
Haste increases power generation for Moonkins, Insanity generation for SPriest, Shard generation for Warlocks, Maelstrom for Elemental and so on.
And for those classes that dont have special ressources, casttime is basically their ressource and that gets scaled by haste too.

That caster vs. melee argument is simply not valid. It used to be valid when mana was still a thing for casters and when haste was also causing casters to spend it faster resulting in more downtime, but that is only the case for healers anymore.

[Deleted]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...93&end=3464999

i dunno. i'm competing just fine with other 90s parsers, thank you.

You needed to rank at the very top to compete against those who are performing at the 80-90th percentile.

If you look at the following logs https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done, you'll see this DK who's performance is similar to your own is absolutely destroyed by his guildmates, who are clearly at the top of their game. Their fight time is significantly shorter, which in this guild's case inflates the dps of the highest performers...who have seemingly timed their CD's well.

Yet even taking this into account, if I shorten the fight length of your parse and ignore your guildmates performance...your dps even dips ever so slightly, which means that fight length and our damage is pretty sustainable but our bursts (such as DA, SR, Apocalypse) are still weak in comparison to other classes.

I would agree with an earlier post, and contradict my earlier post about our damage being fine now. It's mediocre. DA and Army (from Apocalypse) need a buff and Necrosis needs charges when you need to spam DC to empower DA.

[spanishninja]

You needed to rank at the very top to compete against those who are performing at the 80-90th percentile.

If you look at the following logs https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done, you'll see this DK who's performance is similar to your own is absolutely destroyed by his guildmates, who are clearly at the top of their game. Their fight time is significantly shorter, which in this guild's case inflates the dps of the highest performers...who have seemingly timed their CD's well.

Yet even taking this into account, if I shorten the fight length of your parse and ignore your guildmates performance...your dps even dips ever so slightly, which means that fight length and our damage is pretty sustainable but our bursts (such as DA, SR, Apocalypse) are still weak in comparison to other classes.

I would agree with an earlier post, and contradict my earlier post about our damage being fine now. It's mediocre. DA and Army (from Apocalypse) need a buff and Necrosis needs charges when you need to spam DC to empower DA.

a 3 minute fight would obviously benefit people who have shorter cds more than others. I don't think anybody would be surprised by that. For example if that DK was a troll like the warlock was, berserking would have definitely gotten him 20k extra dps easily on such a short fight, maybe even more. In fact if you look at that log and just look at the first 2 minutes of the fight (before stuff like blood fury and wings come back up), you will see that particular DK is quite competitive on burst.

I don't know what you mean by my dps dipping in shorter fights, it's actually the opposite. Unholy DKs have always had great burst with fights that open with hero, as we can open with Army:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...93&end=3357857

In any case, DKs are now within 10% of top dps, rather than something more like 15-20% before the hotfix. That's definitely good enough for current content, and puts us at a position where player skill can actually make the difference in rankings, which was not the case before.

And don't forget that Frost numbers are being driven up by the insanely overtuned helm at the moment, and WILL be nerfed just like the unholy bracers were.

[Deleted]

a 3 minute fight would obviously benefit people who have shorter cds more than others. I don't think anybody would be surprised by that. For example if that DK was a troll like the warlock was, berserking would have definitely gotten him 20k extra dps easily on such a short fight, maybe even more. In fact if you look at that log and just look at the first 2 minutes of the fight (before stuff like blood fury and wings come back up), you will see that particular DK is quite competitive on burst.

I don't know what you mean by my dps dipping in shorter fights, it's actually the opposite. Unholy DKs have always had great burst with fights that open with hero, as we can open with Army:

And don't forget that Frost numbers are being driven up by the insanely overtuned helm at the moment, and WILL be nerfed just like the unholy bracers were.

Our opening with army (for it's timer) and apocalypse provide mediocre burst compared to other classes and in fact what I notice that between certain marks..roughly around 3 minutes to 3 minutes and 40 seconds...our damage pretty much flat lines, which means that before you cast your third Apoc and if you had managed to kill the boss 30 seconds faster, your overall dps would have been lower, not higher.

This is also true of the classes that do particularly well on single target, however they are able to peak above the 1.5 million mark multiple times and their minimums are not as low as ours either.

The buffs merely highlight how poor unholy was before and made good Unholy DK players viable for mythic raiding. However they're a band aid fix to our class design, which should be a pet empowering and disease spreading juggernaut.
Instead we have rows of talents that should be baked into our main spells and an aoe row (Epidemic, Bursting Sores and Ebon Fever), which has one dead talent for aoe and the others which oddly provide a dps buff to encounters that we normally wouldn't expect (Bursting Sores beating or doing as well as Ebon Fever on aoe fights).

[spanishninja]

Our opening with army (for it's timer) and apocalypse provide mediocre burst compared to other classes and in fact what I notice that between certain marks..roughly around 3 minutes to 3 minutes and 40 seconds...our damage pretty much flat lines, which means that before you cast your third Apoc and if you had managed to kill the boss 30 seconds faster, your overall dps would have been lower, not higher.

This is also true of the classes that do particularly well on single target, however they are able to peak above the 1.5 million mark multiple times and their minimums are not as low as ours either.

The buffs merely highlight how poor unholy was before and made good Unholy DK players viable for mythic raiding. However they're a band aid fix to our class design, which should be a pet empowering and disease spreading juggernaut.
Instead we have rows of talents that should be baked into our main spells and an aoe row (Epidemic, Bursting Sores and Ebon Fever), which has one dead talent for aoe and the others which oddly provide a dps buff to encounters that we normally wouldn't expect (Bursting Sores beating or doing as well as Ebon Fever on aoe fights).

you do realize that in current content, sustained dps is much more important than burst right? Mythic Krosus is probably the biggest dps check in Nighthold right now, and it lasts 5:30-6 minutes, and we're doing a lot better in sustained dps tham prior to the hotfix. the issues you talk about with burst dps don't really matter in the bigger picture.

I do agree with the choice of talents and how there needs to be more balance in each tier, but this isn't a problem unique to unholy. Tell me the last time you met a frost dk who us raiding with anything other than BoS and gathering storm, or a warrior not using Avatar in single target fights?

I would like a revamp in the spec mechanics but it is not going to happen in the near future. In the meantime, there are plenty of specs that are doing worse than us when it comes to output.

[Deleted]

We aren't warlocks.. our pets/minions are nothing more than fodder, we don't give a "#%& about them .
I actully welcome the tier 20 set where we actully use our ghouls as a death knight should.