Ion: It's the Myhic guild leaders fault for burnout

[Daan]

Nobody is forced to get world or realm first. People who want this know what they're expecting.

Make it so weeks 1-2 = personal loot only. Severely limits the benefit of split raiding.
Done! I'm a genius.

Every solution has drawbacks, but making it personal loot without tradeable gear for the first 2-3 weeks is a good idea.
Is there a way to let Blizzard know this for ToS and after?

[Bumbasta]

"We shouldn't design our game around people playing it 80 hours a week."

>Releases content tuned for people with 54 Artifact traits

Fuck off, Blizzard.

Noone says you have to farm that within a day. You can also play a few hours a week and still reach 54 at some point.

[Seditian]

it depends on your definition of "content"

if runing the same shit on 20 increasing difficulties can be called "content" then yes legion has more of it.

but outside of it its not different then wod really - besides crazy diablofication and extreme rng put into game.

Eh. More dungeons at launch with Legion, with another one coming. EN has the same amount of bosses as Highmaul. Blackrock Foundry is about the same as ToV + NH combined, boss count wise. Tomb of Sargeras should be able to compete with Hellfire Citadel and I'm sure it's not the last raid of this expansion. Because if that's the case, I'm done in several months as well.

[Rogalicus]

Noone says you have to farm that within a day. You can also play a few hours a week and still reach 54 at some point.

These 'few hours' are added to raid time, which makes them not so few.

[Deleted]

Eh. More dungeons at launch with Legion, with another one coming. EN has the same amount of bosses as Highmaul. Blackrock Foundry is about the same as ToV + NH combined, boss count wise. Tomb of Sargeras should be able to compete with Hellfire Citadel and I'm sure it's not the last raid of this expansion. Because if that's the case, I'm done in several months as well.

I'm not sure that you can compare the quality of blackrock foundry bosses with the quality of ToV and NH bosses. Quality should be taken into the equation.

[Bumbasta]

These 'few hours' are added to raid time, which makes them not so few.

It's not added to raid time. You also get artifact power by doing raids. Quite a lot actually. The whole point of artifact power is that you get it form just playing the gaema, and you don't have to farm it.

[Seditian]

I'm not sure that you can compare the quality of blackrock foundry bosses with the quality of ToV and NH bosses. Quality should be taken into the equation.

Oh yeah definitely. I think Legion is one of the best expansions yet, behind WotLK and about on-par with MoP (although I only played the last half year of MoP). I was just comparing pure volume, in which case his argument still didn't hold up.

[Deleted]

I'm not sure that you can compare the quality of blackrock foundry bosses with the quality of ToV and NH bosses. Quality should be taken into the equation.

Yeah, TBH brf bosses were more fun. And the environment of Nh starting to feel very bland... Sewers plus Suramar pretty much. No variation in environment like BRF had

[KaPe]

It's not added to raid time. You also get artifact power by doing raids. Quite a lot actually. The whole point of artifact power is that you get it form just playing the gaema, and you don't have to farm it.

Artifact Power from raids was completely random and only became a guaranteed thing a few weeks ago - and only from Nighthold. Before that, it was a miniscule amount that didn't amount to anything. This is especially true for Mythic difficulty - you wipe for hours without any gain in AP.

If someone was only doing raids, they'd be hopelessly behind on artifact traits. They need to do other activities - thus vastly increasing the amount of time that's needed to be "raid ready". The opposite of what's been hapenning for the last few expansions.

[thilicen]

https://clips.twitch.tv/warcraft/OpenDugongYouWHY

What a fucking ass. Seriously.

Fire this guy ASAP.

Oh shit, someone told you an inconvenient truth huh?

[XDurionX]

Yep, thanks for your insight, brah - but honestly, no one cares. This systems dont only cause problems for hardcore guilds, but also for the very casual players.

No, no it doesn't.

[Deleted]

No, no it doesn't.

Again, thanks for another pointless opinion. You didn't add anything worthwhile to this thread.

[XDurionX]

Again, thanks for another pointless opinion. You didn't add anything worthwhile to this thread.

Since you're not capable of understanding the simplest things, let me explain: "casuals" in the vast majority, don't raid. If they do, they raid heroic at best. Artifact level is next to irrelevant since just by logging in you have Level 35, which is enough for heroic. Most people at this point should have mid 40ish Levels just by playing the game for ~10 hours a week. And even IF they did want to raid mythic, they could do so, given enough skill, in a few weeks when everyone and their mother has level 54. This affects only a few hundred players at the top, who CHOSE these self imposed restrictions on themselves. They could clear mythic in 4 weeks, or in 8, but they CHOSE to run for world first.

This doesn't affect "casuals" in the slightest. People couldn't care less if a few hundred people stop playing. People stop playing all the time for numerous reasons, and there will always be people to replace them.

At this point ~5000 guilds have nighthold mythic kills. Even if ALL of these players stopped playing now, it wouldn't mean jack for the future of the game.

[Deleted]

Since you're not capable of understanding the simplest things, let me explain: "casuals" in the vast majority, don't raid. If they do, they raid heroic at best. Artifact level is next to irrelevant since just by logging in you have Level 35, which is enough for heroic. Most people at this point should have mid 40ish Levels just by playing the game for ~10 hours a week. And even IF they did want to raid mythic, they could do so, given enough skill, in a few weeks when everyone and their mother has level 54. This affects only a few hundred players at the top, who CHOSE these self imposed restrictions on themselves. They could clear mythic in 4 weeks, or in 8, but they CHOSE to run for world first.

This doesn't affect "casuals" in the slightest. People couldn't care less if a few hundred people stop playing. People stop playing all the time for numerous reasons, and there will always be people to replace them.

What you don't understand is that the world doesn't revolve around you nor other scrubs who chose to ignore 50% of the content this game offers. When you leave your arrogance behind and realise that a fix to the AP problem wouldn't hurt you nor other scrubs, but just make the game better for people who enjoy competition. Also, the AP problem is only one out of three I've mentioned. Maybe start reading before you reply with another arrogant bullshit of a post.

[XDurionX]

What you don't understand is that the world doesn't revolve around you nor other scrubs who chose to ignore 50% of the content this game offers. When you leave your arrogance behind and realise that a fix to the AP problem wouldn't hurt you nor other scrubs, but just make the game better for people who enjoy competition. Also, the AP problem is only one out of three I've mentioned. Maybe start reading before you reply with another arrogant bullshit of a post.

I was specifically replying to one of your "arguments", which i cited, which is most obviously wrong. People like you just tend to ignore all the postings here that prove Ion right. He explained, in detail, why all of these presumed "fixes" wouldn't work. If there was a "cap", no matter how designed, people would feel the need to reach that cap, or be behind forever. THAT would hurt casuals. Not some bleeding edge tryhards without modesty and self control. There will always be people with an unhealthy attitude towards gaming. There is noone to blame but themselves, really, that's all there is to it.

[Darkstrike]

Legion got more contect ? what exactly ? the same thing on different difficulties ? WQs , which are basically dailies(the most boring thing ever added in the damn game ) ??? The worst PvP ever ? If you want to seriously raid you have to farm AP by spamming endlessly mythic + or you stay behind, unless you like being the noob that is getting carried by the rest. This isnt WoW anymore ,its world of diablocrap. Thats why tbc,wotlk,vanilla will always be better than the state they brought the game into.

[Deleted]

Bu Ion is exactly right.

First he didn't "blame" anyone or say it was "their fault". That would have implied wrongdoing or some shortcoming.

Whathe actually said was that when a leading Mythic guild "falls apart" as it gets reported, what really happens is that the guild leaders who are the binding and driving force tend to be the ones who pull out and that often the guild is left leaderless because the players who are left want to go on but none of them want (or are able) to take on leadership.

Guild leadership can be a very difficult thing. The guild leader carries a huge load of responsibility, from getting raids organised, to keeping everyone focussed, assigning tasks, stepping in when people decide to have a got at each other or start pointing fingers of blame.

Being a guild leader means not only leading the raids and doing those hours, but also all the extra time spent setting things up. Doing stuff like explaining mechanics because some people can;t be arsed to look them up etc.

It can be a diffifult and thankless task which often is not appreciated.

When a guild "breaks up" or "stops raiding" is is very often the leaders who want a break, or just go back to being a raider themselves. At that ppoint you have to find a new leader...or the existing group breaks up and people quit or join new ones.

It's no different to political movements with a good leader: then the leader goes, the movement can collapse.

I've been in guilds where they've broken up as there aren;t enough regular raiders as peopel just stop signing up. But also in guilds where the leader has quit, either for real-life issue,s because they are bored themselves, or don;t want to lead because it;s turned into work not fun.

If that happens it's often hard to find a leader and even harder to find a good one. I love raiding but I know I'm not a leader: that's not my character and not something I;d want either. Team player yes, team leader, nope.

And being honest: most players are not leaders either. If they were, they'd have formed their own guilds to run: not just joined someone else's.

[bigbleach]

"We shouldn't design our game around people playing it 80 hours a week."

>Releases content tuned for people with 54 Artifact traits

Fuck off, Blizzard.

You do realize when they tune a raid, its setup with the expectation that your guild is getting more and more geared right? These mythic raiders are smashing their faces against bosses with the best gear from the previous tier of raids, with little time for gear progression. If you gear them in the best mythic gear of the same tier, they will stomp it to death because of their performance

[Deleted]

I was specifically replying to one of your "arguments", which i cited, which is most obviously wrong. People like you just tend to ignore all the postings here that prove Ion right. He explained, in detail, why all of these presumed "fixes" wouldn't work. If there was a "cap", no matter how designed, people would feel the need to reach that cap, or be behind forever. THAT would hurt casuals. Not some bleeding edge tryhards without modesty and self control. There will always be people with an unhealthy attitude towards gaming. There is noone to blame but themselves, really, that's all there is to it.

No, you picked one of my posts and replied with non sense and any proof to back it up. You simply wrote "no" like an idiot who thinks he's omniscient.

People complain in general (not just hardcores, FYI) about the AP grind, legendary grind and TF items that they feel locked to one spec, let alone playing other chars, it they want to play competively. And no, not just the world first people like to play competively, since the very definition of this genre is character progression. If it's locked behind game stretching measures, people naturally get upset since WoW only became big because it cut all the grinds out of this genre.

[XDurionX]

No, you picked one of my posts and replied with non sense and any proof to back it up. You simply wrote "no" like an idiot who thinks he's omniscient.

People complain in general (not just hardcores, FYI) about the AP grind, legendary grind and TF items that they feel locked to one spec, let alone playing other chars, it they want to play competively. And no, not just the world first people like to play competively, since the very definition of this genre is character progression. If it's locked behind game stretching measures, people naturally get upset since WoW only became big because it cut all the grinds out of this genre.

People complain about everything all the time. Doesn't mean, it's not wrong. For the overwhelming, vast majority of players, it's completely irrelevant, which artifact level or which legendaries you have. You can't kill Krosus nhc? No, it's not because you don't have your (presumed) BIS leg or artifact level 54. This game is not designed for people who want to consume all the content on day one. That would be insane. Wowprogress lists ~20.000 heroic guilds. The point still stands: "casuals" in general, don't raid. All of this has no bearing on them whatsoever.