Tomb of Sargeras balanced around max 7.2 Artifacts?

[Deleted]

What's wrong with that? It's good that you need to farm shit to be able to clear the raid. Nothing meaningful outside of raiding is why WoD sucked so much, remember?

[Airwaves]

Sure hope not. And also. NH mythic isn't balanced around 54. It just comes an advantage before everyone is heroic geared. NH mythic is balanced around having NH heroic gear.

[Jellospally]

Tomb of Sargeras will not be released for many weeks after 7.2, presumably after everyone is already AK40 and has extensively farmed their artifact weapons.

Will Tomb of Sargeras cause another situation where Blizzard is forced to tune the raid around max artifacts? How is this any improvement from the current Nighthold situation?

Except AK 40 will take 75 days to get. I highly doubt they are launching 7.2 75 days before ToS opens. Try like 4-5 weeks at the most.

[chronia]

Gear does not far outweigh traits at all, 10% damage gain you won't get via gear at all, you may get 1-2% but that's about it with extra resets of gear if you have 4 set.

Past expansions gear gain was much larger in general between the ilvl differences.

I doubt its that low at all, if i sim my own character (currently 899 ilvl, with 54 traits),which has 4 set and is mostly heroic geared with 1 normal tier piece and a few M+ items it sims at +- 480K dps, if i bump my currect gear to their Mythic ilvls (no WF/TF) and the M+ pieces to ilvl 900 (base Mythic ilvl from the lowest bosses) it sims at 560k, which already is a 16% DPS increase from gear alone as i have 4 set in both sims (and that is with come pieces not even getting a bump because they TF'd already to Mythic ilvl on my currect char). Thats quite far off the 1-2% you are mentioning, And its with only 2 drops equipped that either come from Krosus, Star Auger, Guldan or Elisande. Now this might ofc not count for every character as its only 1 Sim, but even if you take half of that a 8% dps increase from stats alone with farming the early Mythic bosses and Heroic for TF procs should not be that hard to accomplish.

[Deleted]

But now your also throwing gear in the mix. I mean saying "its balanced around 54" is easy, but that would also imply that for example gear is not a factor, which ofc is not the case. Would ppl say that when you attempt these bosses week 1 at lets say 900 avg ilvl in the raid, i would agree, having 54 traits is very helpfull, and probably needed for atleast the last 3 bosses and Krosus. But the more gear ppl get, the less important the traits become (they will still help, but if you attempt bosses at lets say 910 avg ilvl in a raid later on you can probably get away with quite a few players not sporting 54 traits). So you can't really say "its tuned at 54" but ppl should say "its tuned for 54 traits at avg ilvl xxx"

Not that this really is a factor, i mean NH is going to be current content till atleast May / June if the ToS release rumours are right. And accoring to the projections made by for example MrRobot every player that since release did a moderate amount of AP gathering each week (Completing Emmisary caches, completing AP missions, get some AP from WQ's, get their AP from raids and doing +- 4 M+ a week to get the highest cache they could each week) will get 54 traits early march. So in that view its not weird that atleast some bosses are tuned for 54 on the highest difficulty as its expected that each raider reaches this point somewhere during the NH progress cycle.

Now for ToS (where i think they already announced that full Artifacts won't be expected) it will not be logical to tune for full Artifacts, seeing that unless they change it on PTR it will be 75 days for ppl to get AK40 at which point the raid might have already been released. I reckon it will be more like ToV tuning where it might be tuned around having all the new traits, except for the new paragon one filled out fully.

Pretty insightful and I agree with a lot of your points.

[MrExcelion]

Except AK 40 will take 75 days to get. I highly doubt they are launching 7.2 75 days before ToS opens. Try like 4-5 weeks at the most.

They said there will be an Insurrection-style leadup to the opening, which took 9 weeks for NH. An older interview already talked about they'll also do a 7.2.5 with class balance changes, sort of like 7.1.5, and these in-between patches are slated to be about 10 weeks apart from the 7.X.0 patches. 10 weeks puts AK40 and the class balancing patch right around when Tomb could launch (would make sense to do the balancing at the start of Tomb anyway)

Maybe we'll see how many weeks of quests in the datamines soon, but personally I think Tomb is about 16 weeks out. 7.2 Broken Shore content slated for April (and so will begin the relinqushed legendary token grinding before ToS since our AK will be too low to do much else)

[Doffen]

The BM and MM bonuses were something 10-15% dps increase alone.

I dont know for BM but 4set for MM is 5-6% increase for me@890, 2set makes up 80% of that upgrade(going from 2set to 4set was a 0.7% upgrade..) and its even less for higher gearlvl.

Agree with the rest tho. I mean, of that 14,5%, the first trait giving 5%. Lets say I am at 45 traits, so I am missing 4.5% dmg. A trinket alone can give that upgrade. So gear matters, even more than traits.

Mythic krosus is tuned at peoples skill to max their dps. I bet Guldan is tuned at 54 traits AND/OR gear at 910 or so. But are people expecting to have Guldan at farm already? The content is gonna last for months, you arent all top mythic raiders who can do world first.

Last, if you are a mythic raider, you have 54 traits already in your main wep. Thats not really all that grindy if you like the game. I am at 54 traits now, rerolled and dinged 110 late november. I am casual.

[Jellospally]

They said there will be an Insurrection-style leadup to the opening, which took 9 weeks for NH. An older interview already talked about they'll also do a 7.2.5 with class balance changes, sort of like 7.1.5, and these in-between patches are slated to be about 10 weeks apart from the 7.X.0 patches. 10 weeks puts AK40 and the class balancing patch right around when Tomb could launch (would make sense to do the balancing at the start of Tomb anyway)

Maybe we'll see how many weeks of quests in the datamines soon, but personally I think Tomb is about 16 weeks out. 7.2 Broken Shore content slated for April (and so will begin the relinqushed legendary token grinding before ToS since our AK will be too low to do much else)

They said ~4 weeks during blizzcon when I was there unless they changed their minds.

[Lumineus]

Except AK 40 will take 75 days to get. I highly doubt they are launching 7.2 75 days before ToS opens. Try like 4-5 weeks at the most.

You think? Because I really don't see them waiting five months with no new content before releasing Broken Shore, and if they stick to a more realistic patch schedule and spring 7.2 in April then four weeks til ToS would mean that Nighthold gets thrown under the bus faster than Ulduar at just under four months old.

[Zigrifid]

Oh no you need to work on your gear to clear a raid? oh nooes !!! does a company really want players to do shit in their game to progress? why not just allow them to go in with their boa weapons and clear it !

[Fleuria]

I doubt its that low at all, if i sim my own character (currently 899 ilvl, with 54 traits),which has 4 set and is mostly heroic geared with 1 normal tier piece and a few M+ items it sims at +- 480K dps, if i bump my currect gear to their Mythic ilvls (no WF/TF) and the M+ pieces to ilvl 900 (base Mythic ilvl from the lowest bosses) it sims at 560k, which already is a 16% DPS increase from gear alone as i have 4 set in both sims (and that is with come pieces not even getting a bump because they TF'd already to Mythic ilvl on my currect char). Thats quite far off the 1-2% you are mentioning, And its with only 2 drops equipped that either come from Krosus, Star Auger, Guldan or Elisande. Now this might ofc not count for every character as its only 1 Sim, but even if you take half of that a 8% dps increase from stats alone with farming the early Mythic bosses and Heroic for TF procs should not be that hard to accomplish.

If you read what I said, I said that in reality you are only going to get max 2/3 items a week on one person so expecting a 1-2% gain in power is feasible, going from full heroic to mythic is going to at least take a good few resets.

Take Krosus for an example sure you can wait for extra gear ilvls to kill him but when there is an ulterior source of power in traits, why wait when you can go farm the extra traits in the first place and kill him way before waiting for the extra increase in power from gear. No one in there right mind would want to wait 2-3 more weeks to kill the boss if you can make people get the same power gain in traits, this is the sole issue.

[Deleted]

Oh no you need to work on your gear to clear a raid? oh nooes !!! does a company really want players to do shit in their game to progress? why not just allow them to go in with their boa weapons and clear it !

Usually, in a well designed and well balanced game, your ability to take down a boss depends on your skill as a player more than on the gear your wearing.

[Deleted]

Usually, in a well designed and well balanced game, your ability to take down a boss depends on your skill as a player more than on the gear your wearing.

Not true in NH. Almost all bosses past 3/10 have INSANE dps requirements.

[Flurryfang]

Tomb of Sargeras will not be released for many weeks after 7.2, presumably after everyone is already AK40 and has extensively farmed their artifact weapons.

Will Tomb of Sargeras cause another situation where Blizzard is forced to tune the raid around max artifacts? How is this any improvement from the current Nighthold situation?

Normal/Heroic ToS will not. I can't say for sure about Mythic, but its proberly gonna be like most of the bosses being tuned for a high lvl artifact, but far from maxed. The last boss, Kil'jaeden, might be tuned for a maxed artifact for the first 2 months, and then nerfed after that to a more modest artifact.

I think they have learned a little about artifacts in 7.0 and 7.1, especially with getting a maxed artiact being alot harder in 7.2 then in 7.1. We are proberly gonna see artifacts being lvled during the mythic progression and be part of why some guilds win and some lose.

[Zigrifid]

Usually, in a well designed and well balanced game, your ability to take down a boss depends on your skill as a player more than on the gear your wearing.

Wow was never like that , in classic you had to farm FR / NR gear, in TBC you had to have crafted shadow resist or frost resist gear and lets not talk about how easy was to get items after those 2 expansions so you could lower the skill base of players by vendor epax.
And tbh i have played a lot of mmos free and p2p none has the 'skills" > gear concept. If you want skills play single players :P

[silloh]

I'm going to take a wild stab and say you guys are talking about mythic, because I know its not needed for normal or heroic. My guild has cleared norm multiple times and most of heroic and there's only a handful that have anything above 45+ traits, if that. And if you're talking about mythic I would think most mythic guilds being a little more hardcore probably have their artifacts or at least their main artifact maxed out.

What this guy said... and also i see it totally ok to balance mythic raids about max trait weapon

[Phookah]

Tomb of Sargeras will not be released for many weeks after 7.2, presumably after everyone is already AK40 and has extensively farmed their artifact weapons.

Will Tomb of Sargeras cause another situation where Blizzard is forced to tune the raid around max artifacts? How is this any improvement from the current Nighthold situation?

No. Blizzard has already said they don't really intend for people to "finish" artifacts after the next patch, hence the exponential cost of new points in the 50 rank trait.

- - - Updated - - -

It wont be tuned for Paragon 50, but for Paragon 25. Which'll still have ridiculous mythic+ grind requirements. Expect Argus Raid to be tuned around Paragon 50 or whatever they do in 7.3.

I imagine your source is your asshole that you pulled this info from? Don't spread misinformation. They've already said they don't intend for people to max the new artifacts.

[MasterHamster]

There isn't a single fucking raid that has killed Krosus without at least 80-90% of the raid at 54 traits. This pseudo-elitism bullshit "git gud" is pretty irritating.

So we're talking 1-5%, every time?

[shaunika123]

Except, it's not. If you want to clear it in a single month then you could make that argument but eventually when your entire raid is sitting at 905-910 average ilvl with more people having their better legendaries, that artifact power is irrelevant. Of course you'll likely have it by that point anyway but better gear will far outweigh your traits.

well ofc if ur overgearing it then traits dont matter

duh.

if you come back in ToS mythic gear you can clear it with 35 points.

[Fynzie]

Before you assert that NH isn't tuned for 54 traits, please link your armory because if it isn't then it's balanced around class stacking and BiS legendaries. Funny how many people here are able to speak of something without having an inkling of what it is.