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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by jimboa24 View Post
    If you have a problem with that, then go out there and preach your gospel of whatever religion or non-religion you believe in to win hearts and influence minds and convince the majority of Americans that it's ok for the POTUS to be a non-Christian. Or just keep being bitter and shitposting about it on the internet, it's your call.
    Uhhh, someone got defensive fast. :P
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  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Moratori View Post
    Without the religion, nobody to believe in it and have their mind influenced by it. The difference is how religious people are. Some are less religious and some are more religious.
    Dude, you're not paying attention. I can't continue this. You're not playing along and that means you'll never understand my argument. This ends here.
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  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    You can insult the royal family either, I find that worse actually.
    Lèse-majesté laws are as archaic and stupid as blasphemy laws.
    Last edited by Moratori; 2017-02-25 at 03:31 PM.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by jimboa24 View Post
    The fuck are you talking about? The right to freely practice and express your religious beliefs or non-beliefs SHOULD be protected both by and from the government. If you think otherwise, then you're no better than the jackbooting thugs of the 1940's that sought to eradicate Judaism from Europe - only difference being that you have an irrational, seething hatred for religion in general.
    they want a society where everyone follows and respects their religion, they can go and make one in some other land. i'm sick of tolerating intolerance, i'm sick of seeing laws made based on faith, i'm sick of it all.

    and i don't hate religion. i hate the way it makes people treat other people. remove those bad parts, and maybe people won't feel badly towards it.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    no we fucking don't need them, because someone destroying and mocking holy shit isn't any of your goddamned business and you shouldn't get to stop people from doing it.
    Hi, I want to introduce you to this thing called being civil. It means (among other) that you don't trample on other people's beliefs to make trouble, even if you dislike their beliefs.

    Also, we live in a world where people threaten bloody murder because someone belongs to a different political party than they do. Do you REALLY think that pouring gasoline on a fire by removing laws that force people to at least try to be somewhat civil is a good idea?

    ...you probably do, don't you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tikaru View Post
    Or people could ignore content they find offensive?

    The guy posted the image on a Facebook page that's all about trashing religion, he didn't print out thousands of flyers of him burning the book and posted them on every car/door/dog.

    If it's not illegal to burn your own copy of "The Cat in the Hat", it shouldn't be illegal to burn any other fantasy book either.
    I don't really care one way or the other if someone burns this or that book (although I think a mindset that would burn books is...flawed.), but "people could ignore content they find offensive"? We have people who find the LEGO Batman movie offensive, we have people who find comic book covers offensive. You KNOW that people won't ignore someone destroying what they consider to be the "word of God" when people go apeshit over such minor things.

    In a perfect world people would be civil enough to let others believe as they wish without mockery or trying to cause trouble, so long as they themselves were not adversely affected by said beliefs. We don't live in that world, so until we do, we probably need some laws that at least lets people know that there are some limits to how big an asshole they can be, and also lets people know that if you had the most important thing in your life burned, you have other recourses than violence.

  6. #246
    While i think that blasphemy laws are outdated it was dumb of him to post a video and try to provoke a reaction.

  7. #247
    Most ridiculous thing ive heard, got no place in modern society.

    Whats next, start killing people for witchcraft and sorcery like they still do in saudi arabia, africa and other backward places.
    Last edited by ParanoiD84; 2017-02-25 at 03:40 PM.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    You don't understand me. You cannot, literally, critique something that is not based in facts.
    Oh, please. We can, we are able to, criticize anything and everything. Fairly or unfairly, the entire history of criticism is based on attacking make belief. Most movies, books or vidja are based on unsubstantiated belief: they're made up stories with no basis in reality or fact. We still can, and do, criticize them all the time.
    We rarely do it on their factual content, but on how it reflects on our actual reality.

    Abrahamic religions, for instance, are built on a pretty bizarre story. To put it flippantly, Abraham was a guy that heard voices in his head that commanded he killed his son, and he was more than willing to go along with it. By religious standards, it's a metaphor for commitment. But by today's standards, this guy would be locked up in a mental institution, and we would be scandalized if he had a following cult. The literal recollection of the story is entirely unacceptable, and more than capable of being criticized.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    they want a society where everyone follows and respects their religion, they can go and make one in some other land. i'm sick of tolerating intolerance, i'm sick of seeing laws made based on faith, i'm sick of it all.
    Values =/= religion. You will NEVER be free from people who are trying to impose their values on you. Everyone fucking does it, even the most militant, hardcore atheists and SJW's. Some people's values are informed by religion, some are by their own codes, creeds or views. But everyone has their own values, and as long as there is government, will try to use government to enforce their values.

    No one is trying to create a society where everyone follows their religion. Everyone is trying to create a society that conforms to their values and how they feel the world should be. You will NEVER, EVER escape this, and blaming it on religion is missing the real source of your ire. Because even if ALL religion were gone tomorrow, you would STILL have people trying to shove their values down your throat whether you like it or not. They'll just be using something else as an excuse to do it.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yirrah View Post
    Hi, I want to introduce you to this thing called being civil. It means (among other) that you don't trample on other people's beliefs to make trouble, even if you dislike their beliefs.

    Also, we live in a world where people threaten bloody murder because someone belongs to a different political party than they do. Do you REALLY think that pouring gasoline on a fire by removing laws that force people to at least try to be somewhat civil is a good idea?

    ...you probably do, don't you.



    I don't really care one way or the other if someone burns this or that book (although I think a mindset that would burn books is...flawed.), but "people could ignore content they find offensive"? We have people who find the LEGO Batman movie offensive, we have people who find comic book covers offensive. You KNOW that people won't ignore someone destroying what they consider to be the "word of God" when people go apeshit over such minor things.

    In a perfect world people would be civil enough to let others believe as they wish without mockery or trying to cause trouble, so long as they themselves were not adversely affected by said beliefs. We don't live in that world, so until we do, we probably need some laws that at least lets people know that there are some limits to how big an asshole they can be, and also lets people know that if you had the most important thing in your life burned, you have other recourses than violence.
    So, "your rights end where my feelings begin"?

    Being offended doesn't mean you're right.

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by amyiah38 View Post
    Oh, please. We can, we are able to, criticize anything and everything. Fairly or unfairly, the entire history of criticism is based on attacking make belief. Most movies, books or vidja are based on unsubstantiated belief: they're made up stories with no basis in reality or fact. We still can, and do, criticize them all the time.
    We rarely do it on their factual content, but on how it reflects on our actual reality.

    Abrahamic religions, for instance, are built on a pretty bizarre story. To put it flippantly, Abraham was a guy that heard voices in his head that commanded he killed his son, and he was more than willing to go along with it. By religious standards, it's a metaphor for commitment. But by today's standards, this guy would be locked up in a mental institution, and we would be scandalized if he had a following cult. The literal recollection of the story is entirely unacceptable, and more than capable of being criticized.
    Well, ok, let me rephrase it... you can not criticise it efficiently since it's not based in facts. It's one of the reasons why this forum banned religious topics. Because without facts to compare, you're just talking in circles about things in your head that have no basis in reality.

    What you can criticise is religious practice! Is Sharia law legit or bullshit? That's very much something you can put into social context with women's rights, Sharia vs. exclusive power of the state etc. But the very idea of god and the religious basis? Pointless to debate it. It's just faith, nothing more. Just ideas in people's heads. I think they're stupid the lot of them, but that's really all the critique of a religion boils down to. Personal opinions.
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  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by AbortedGodFetus View Post
    No one's religion is hurt by you burning some paper in your backyard.
    Not that I agree with the law. But, if the fella had just burnt the book, he wouldn't have been charged. What he is really being charged with is posting it on Facebook. Maybe they don't have the right laws in place to charge him with a hate speech crime and so they found and used an obscure law to get the message across.

    I have little doubt the guy is your standard racist bigot (which is his right), I imagine they wanted to "nip in the bud" more people ratcheting up the anger speech and so they made an example out of this fella. In this case, basically the Govt punched a Nazi in the face, which is why I guess it's considered a good thing here on MMO-C

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by freezion View Post
    Some laws are so obscure and rarely used that they rarely get changed till it's actually used again.
    as an example there's still a law in place that technically allows you to shoot a swede with a muzzleloader rifle if they cross the frozen ocean to denmark by foot.

    and in england there's technically still a law in place that says you cant wear armor in the parliament.
    Well, I say...I should go change then, should I? *clangs out*

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by AbortedGodFetus View Post
    No one's religion is hurt by you burning some paper in your backyard.
    You are fundamentally missing the point.

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by rym View Post
    My country, germany, one of the most liberal democracies, has a blasphemy law since 1871. Which was changed to only matter if it was done in public. But still it is illegal to dffame or burn religious properties, books and temples in my country.
    Us Germans are pretty liberal in some ways, but we are not nearly as liberal as we like to think we are

    On topic:
    They should have shipped this book burning dumbass to Kabul, together with his quran and his lighter and set him free on the market place. Good luck, pal!

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tikaru View Post
    So, "your rights end where my feelings begin"?

    Being offended doesn't mean you're right.
    Being right doesn't enter into it. Should people have a right to be a dick and cause trouble? Ideally they would self-regulate such behaviour away. If society consists of people who are incapable of doing so, then perhaps we need those laws even if we don't like them.

  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yirrah View Post
    Being right doesn't enter into it. Should people have a right to be a dick and cause trouble? Ideally they would self-regulate such behaviour away. If society consists of people who are incapable of doing so, then perhaps we need those laws even if we don't like them.
    He's a dick, but how did he cause trouble?

  17. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tikaru View Post
    He's a dick, but how did he cause trouble?
    I repeat: "Should people have a right to be a dick and cause trouble?". The specific dick in question here may or may not have caused trouble, but that is besides the point, as I was talking about people who get a kick out of destroying things that matters to other people in general.

  18. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yirrah View Post
    I repeat: "Should people have a right to be a dick and cause trouble?". The specific dick in question here may or may not have caused trouble, but that is besides the point, as I was talking about people who get a kick out of destroying things that matters to other people in general.
    It's his own property, he can burn it if he wants to. If people riot, that's on them and they're responsible for their actions.

    If your post upsets me, and I punch my dog, who is at fault?

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Tikaru View Post
    It's his own property, he can burn it if he wants to. If people riot, that's on them and they're responsible for their actions.

    If your post upsets me, and I punch my dog, who is at fault?
    If his post is designed to upset you in a manner that makes you punch your dog, it's probably also on him. You can't absolve people for inciting violence just because they're not violent themselves.
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  20. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    If his post is designed to upset you in a manner that makes you punch your dog, it's probably also on him. You can't absolve people for inciting violence just because they're not violent themselves.
    How do you prove that though? Just take my word that his/her post made me punch my dog?

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