What did you think about Warcraft: Chronicle?

[therealstegblob]

Chronicle, and the lore released slightly before Chronicle was published (i.e. it was written at the same time Chronicle was being put together, back in like 2014-2015 or so) did in fact add some pretty major retcons to proto-WoW lore.

First of all, they made up the Void Lords and rectonned the Old Gods into being minions/creations of the Void Lords, the Void Lords are now the reason Sargeras went bananas, Sargeras is now sort of a "doing what must be done" bad guy to stop the Void Lords instead of his already established "DESTROY EVERYTHING BECAUSE FUCK LIFE AND MAGIC LOL" reason.

So Sargeras' origins were retconned, Void Lords were added to the lore. Pretty big retcons.

[Stormspark]

Chronicle, and the lore released slightly before Chronicle was published (i.e. it was written at the same time Chronicle was being put together, back in like 2014-2015 or so) did in fact add some pretty major retcons to proto-WoW lore.

First of all, they made up the Void Lords and rectonned the Old Gods into being minions/creations of the Void Lords, the Void Lords are now the reason Sargeras went bananas, Sargeras is now sort of a "doing what must be done" bad guy to stop the Void Lords instead of his already established "DESTROY EVERYTHING BECAUSE FUCK LIFE AND MAGIC LOL" reason.

So Sargeras' origins were retconned, Void Lords were added to the lore. Pretty big retcons.

None of those were retcons. The Sargeras thing was retconned back in BC (resulting in the Draenei - where Metzen forgot the bit that was in the WC3 instruction manual), and Chronicle just added more information to it. Changing things that the community believes, or fan speculation, is not retconning.

[Varitok]

People actually unironically watch asmr? LUL

I don't but know people who do, Who cares? Who the fuck watches something ironically?

[Deleted]

Fair enough; I am probably labouring under the misaprehension that it follows the plot of the movie (it is after all trying to reconcile all the random lore threads that exist and they spent an awful lot on that movie to have it be "not cannon") which is very much retconned (to fuck, even). I'll be the first to admit I've not read it though, so perhaps it hasn't gotten that far yet.

Chronicle Vol. II (which isn't out yet) is the one about the First War and so far, from the previews, they went with expanding the games lore and not the movie. The only "movie" reference is Queen Taria, which is not even a retcon because she didn't had a name before.

- - - Updated - - -

First of all, they made up the Void Lords and rectonned the Old Gods into being minions/creations of the Void Lords, the Void Lords are now the reason Sargeras went bananas, Sargeras is now sort of a "doing what must be done" bad guy to stop the Void Lords instead of his already established "DESTROY EVERYTHING BECAUSE FUCK LIFE AND MAGIC LOL" reason.

So Sargeras' origins were retconned, Void Lords were added to the lore. Pretty big retcons.

The Sargeras retcon happened more than 10 years ago. The introduction of the Void Lords isn't a retcon, we had no idea about the Old Gods' origins.

[Lylandra]

I liked the first Chronicle... the only thing that turned me off was the fact that they contradicted some lore parts within Legion content "because it was cool". See Odyn.

[Deleted]

I dunno, I don't buy this crap.

[therealstegblob]

None of those were retcons. The Sargeras thing was retconned back in BC (resulting in the Draenei - where Metzen forgot the bit that was in the WC3 instruction manual), and Chronicle just added more information to it. Changing things that the community believes, or fan speculation, is not retconning.

It was indeed a retcon. Sargeras' original, original lore was that he was corrupted by demons (specifically the Eredar), this was changed around the time TBC was being written (as you mentioned) to Sargeras corrupting the Eredar, because Sargeras had come to believe all life needed to be destroyed in order to stop corruption.

However, the lore has now been tweaked further and Sargeras wants to reset evolution in the universe, not destroy it completely. The lore also crowbarred in Void Lords, expanding on Sargeras' already established canon. It's a retcon. I write fiction for a living, my man, I know what a retcon to established story is.

- - - Updated - - -

The Sargeras retcon happened more than 10 years ago. The introduction of the Void Lords isn't a retcon, we had no idea about the Old Gods' origins.

Refer to my above post, but the inclusion of the Void Lords is indeed a retcon. The Void Lords were not revealed to be the "true bad guys" or whatever, they were added to be the true bad guys. There was no pre-existing build up or even slightest suggestions that the Void Lords existed, nor did the story organically add them on its own (i.e., characters realizing the Old Gods were created by a 'greater force' or something), they were artificially added into the lore with no build up or story vehicle of any sort in the existing canon; this is what a retcon is.

Though adding a new character is technically not exactly a retcon (though the two things can go hand in hand in certain instances), the inclusion of the Void Lords is part of the retconning of Sargeras (again, refer to my above text).

[D Luniz]

Chronicle only had *1* retcon in it. They retconned the relationship between Aegwynn and Nielas Aran. The prior lore said he was basically some random conjurer at Stormwind's court that she just seduced to make Medivh and didn't care about him otherwise. The new lore has him as a member of the Tirisgarde and them legit falling in love with each other, and him becoming a conjurer at Stormwind after. That is the only retcon in the book.

Contradicting fan assumptions is not a retcon btw.

so he's no longer just some side piece jester?

[Raggamasta]

Very weird porn, did not like.

[Stormspark]

It was indeed a retcon. Sargeras' original, original lore was that he was corrupted by demons (specifically the Eredar), this was changed around the time TBC was being written (as you mentioned) to Sargeras corrupting the Eredar, because Sargeras had come to believe all life needed to be destroyed in order to stop corruption.

However, the lore has now been tweaked further and Sargeras wants to reset evolution in the universe, not destroy it completely. The lore also crowbarred in Void Lords, expanding on Sargeras' already established canon. It's a retcon. I write fiction for a living, my man, I know what a retcon to established story is.

- - - Updated - - -



Refer to my above post, but the inclusion of the Void Lords is indeed a retcon. The Void Lords were not revealed to be the "true bad guys" or whatever, they were added to be the true bad guys. There was no pre-existing build up or even slightest suggestions that the Void Lords existed, nor did the story organically add them on its own (i.e., characters realizing the Old Gods were created by a 'greater force' or something), they were artificially added into the lore with no build up or story vehicle of any sort in the existing canon; this is what a retcon is.

Though adding a new character is technically not exactly a retcon (though the two things can go hand in hand in certain instances), the inclusion of the Void Lords is part of the retconning of Sargeras (again, refer to my above text).

The Void Lords are not a retcon. We previously knew almost nothing about the Old Gods or their origins. Sargeras WAS retconned yes, but Chronicle didn't do it, the retcon was done back in BC.

I liked the first Chronicle... the only thing that turned me off was the fact that they contradicted some lore parts within Legion content "because it was cool". See Odyn.

Odyn wasn't contradicted in Legion. That information in the Chronicle was for the players. Our characters don't know anything about the history bewteen Odyn and Helya, because they don't know the entire history of the Warcraft universe like we do. Our characters only know what Odyn told us, and he chose to not reveal that part to us. History is written by the victors after all. We trust him because he's a Titan keeper. Helya even mentions at another point that we shouldn't trust him, but what reason do we have to believe her? After all she's evil and created the Kvaldir.

[therealstegblob]

The Void Lords are not a retcon. We previously knew almost nothing about the Old Gods or their origins. Sargeras WAS retconned yes, but Chronicle didn't do it, the retcon was done back in BC.

Okay look I know the chances of someone on MMOChampion admitting they're wrong in an argument is never going to happen, so I'll just explain this for the sake of other people who want to learn a bit about constructing stories and what retconning is.

The textbook definition of Retcon;

ret·con
ˈretkän/
noun
1.
(in a film, television series, or other fictional work) a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events, typically used to facilitate a dramatic plot shift or account for an inconsistency.
"we're given a retcon for Wilf's absence from Donna's wedding in ‘The Runaway Bride’: he had Spanish Flu"
verb
1.
revise (an aspect of a fictional work) retrospectively, typically by introducing a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events.
"I think fans get more upset when characters act blatantly out of established type, or when things get retconned"

First of all I reiterate that Sargeras now wants to reset evolution. Prior to this, he wanted to destroy all life and (I believe?) magic as well, just to stop corruption. This itself is a minor retcon, but it goes further.

The Void Lords were added as a "new enemy" with no build up or anything in the story leading to them. It's not just sloppy, knee-jerk writing, it's also a retcon of the Old Gods in general. You're rationalizing everything as "oh, they're just finally expounding upon the origins of the Old Gods", and this is true, but at the same time they're retconning what little we knew of the Old Gods in order to do this.

Adding Void Lords the way they did to the story is a manner of introducing new information on a moment's notice in order to impose a different interpretation to it, which falls in line with the very definition of Retcon that I quoted above.

It's a retcon. Hope at least some people will learn a thing or two from this.

[Chickat]

I wouldn't go so far as to say anything like that. Yeah, the writing is so-so (lots of word repetition with shit like 'epoch' and others), and it reads very much like an amateur high fantasy (because that's what it is) but it's not bad. It's just a somewhat shame that it's taken them so long to try and establish an actual lore base to their canon.



Now you're just entering nerdrage territory lol.

- - - Updated - - -



Video itself isn't even really ASMR, despite being made by someone who makes ASMR videos. I thought it was cool what they were doing (reading it, setting it to music, etc) but I knew there'd be a lot of asslords (most of them not even speaking straight English) that would wiggle out of the MMOChampion dirt and make a bunch of stupid 'wtf so weird cringe asmr dumb' posts ((Despite the fact most of these tools will watch it anyways and enjoy ASMR)).

Also if you want some weird ass ASMR, get yourself some Ephemeral Rift.

Know all about him, and id say it was asmr imo. She was whispering/soft spoken, plus she made touching sounds on the book etc. Not hardcore asmr, but it was definitely there.

- - - Updated - - -

People actually unironically watch asmr? LUL

Yeah, millions.

[therealstegblob]

Know all about him, and id say it was asmr imo. She was whispering/soft spoken, plus she made touching sounds on the book etc. Not hardcore asmr, but it was definitely there.

It's sort've ASMR, she's just doing soft speaking (not whispers). But she also uses a binural mic and talks into both sides of it. It's light ASMR, but it shouldn't be so ASMRy that people are having the reaction of OH MY GOD SO WEIRD ASMR IS WEIRD. If her channel name didn't have "ASMR" in it, it's likely no one here would be complaining about it being ASMR. It's just a soft spoken reading; something lots of people do, especially when reading fantasy stuff like this.

Basically I'm not trying to say it's not ASMR or whatever, just that it's less ASMR and more just a reading video. People are only having negative reactions to it because there's still some stupid stigma towards ASMR... despite the fact 99% of the people who post about ASMR being strange/disturbing experience ASMR themselves and probably watch plenty of ASMR videos.

[Chickat]

It's sort've ASMR, she's just doing soft speaking (not whispers). But she also uses a binural mic and talks into both sides of it. It's light ASMR, but it shouldn't be so ASMRy that people are having the reaction of OH MY GOD SO WEIRD ASMR IS WEIRD. If her channel name didn't have "ASMR" in it, it's likely no one here would be complaining about it being ASMR. It's just a soft spoken reading; something lots of people do, especially when reading fantasy stuff like this.

Basically I'm not trying to say it's not ASMR or whatever, just that it's less ASMR and more just a reading video. People are only having negative reactions to it because there's still some stupid stigma towards ASMR... despite the fact 99% of the people who post about ASMR being strange/disturbing experience ASMR themselves and probably watch plenty of ASMR videos.

Gotcha. 10 chars

[DarkTZeratul]

Fair enough; I am probably labouring under the misaprehension that it follows the plot of the movie (it is after all trying to reconcile all the random lore threads that exist and they spent an awful lot on that movie to have it be "not cannon") which is very much retconned (to fuck, even).

Even before the movie came out they were explicit that it's a separate canon from the games. Like Marvel comics vs. Marvel movies.

[therealstegblob]

Even before the movie came out they were explicit that it's a separate canon from the games. Like Marvel comics vs. Marvel movies.

Yeah, exactly. The movie universe (which appears to be being discontinued as of now?) is/was going to be an entirely separate canon from the games/books/etc.

[Soeroah]

I love it, and look forward to the next.

[Deleted]

However, the lore has now been tweaked further and Sargeras wants to reset evolution in the universe, not destroy it completely. The lore also crowbarred in Void Lords, expanding on Sargeras' already established canon. It's a retcon. I write fiction for a living, my man, I know what a retcon to established story is.

No, he still wants to purge the entire universe. Nothing has changed.

Refer to my above post, but the inclusion of the Void Lords is indeed a retcon. The Void Lords were not revealed to be the "true bad guys" or whatever, they were added to be the true bad guys. There was no pre-existing build up or even slightest suggestions that the Void Lords existed, nor did the story organically add them on its own (i.e., characters realizing the Old Gods were created by a 'greater force' or something), they were artificially added into the lore with no build up or story vehicle of any sort in the existing canon; this is what a retcon is.

Though adding a new character is technically not exactly a retcon (though the two things can go hand in hand in certain instances), the inclusion of the Void Lords is part of the retconning of Sargeras (again, refer to my above text).

It's still expanding lore, not a retcon. We knew nothing about the origins of the universe, Titans or Old Gods.

As you posted, retcon introducing new info that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events. Nothing is being reinterpret here, we had nothing to interpret from the start, it was a blank in lore.

[Kokolums]

Releasing chronicles is a horrible idea because it needlessly creates a lot of fixed points in lore which will only make it more difficult to tell good stories down the line. Future writers will not see chronicles as anything but an obstacle and retcons will be the answer, making the book pointless and will upset people who liked the lore. Its just a mess.

[Deleted]

Releasing chronicles is a horrible idea because it needlessly creates a lot of fixed points in lore which will only make it more difficult to tell good stories down the line. Future writers will not see chronicles as anything but an obstacle and retcons will be the answer, making the book pointless and will upset people who liked the lore. Its just a mess.

I never understood this argument. It didn't stopped and actually help in create a bunch of new lore that was used in the artifact story lines. Lore can be expanded, especially on a universe so vast and old as the Warcraft universe.