AH Sniping: T he Lowest of the Low

[Deleted]

AH bots are bannable just the same as gathering bots or farming bots.

Good joke

Except that they aren't getting banned. I've seen same player bot for months, reported him few times, GM confirmed that its most likely a bot that said they'll be "investigating". After few months he disappeared for a week. Guess got a short ban. Then back to botting.

During MoP gem and glyph markets on most big realms were controlled by bots. Blizzard's action? Nerf gems and glyphs.

In WoD same player was controlling craftable BoE mounts market by undercutting entire day within 1-2 minutes after someone else posts. Without even coming online. He was using remote AH bot. Even though remote AH has limit on number of posts, its high enough when dealing with small market, such as mounts market. Blizzard's action? Nothing.

Before someone says "AH bots don't exist", go google. You'll find plenty of them.

Why is it happening? Because AH interface is ancient. Undercutting, sniping, bids are all outdated concepts. AH needs to be rebuilt.

[Ichifails]

Good joke

Except that they aren't getting banned. I've seen same player bot for months, reported him few times, GM confirmed that its most likely a bot that said they'll be "investigating". After few months he disappeared for a week. Guess got a short ban. Then back to botting.

How exactly do you insanely resourceful people get access to data that proves they are botting?

- - - Updated - - -

I may have missed it, but I will say it here/again.

It's not okay for people to make profit or gain off the mistakes or ignorance of others, no matter how meaningless the gain. We need to keep in mind WoW gold=real money now as well.

It's perfectly acceptable to lose everything in life and in game if you're a moron.

[Amorac]

Good joke

Except that they aren't getting banned. I've seen same player bot for months, reported him few times, GM confirmed that its most likely a bot that said they'll be "investigating". After few months he disappeared for a week. Guess got a short ban. Then back to botting.

https://unbanster.com/wow-ban-wave-february-2017/
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17611531106

Blizzard also explained the reasoning in the penalty https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...3676375?page=2

Or maybe he wasn't using a bot but an add on so it's a bit different anyway, he may have gotten suspension for abuse of economy.

Undercutting, sniping, bids are all outdated concepts.

With the exception of sniping, undercutting and bidding is almost the basis of a free market economy.

AH needs to be rebuilt.

True, and I think Blizzard said they were working on that. Not that a new AH will break a bot as it works outside of the game engine. (Ok break it temporarily not for long..)

Wouldn't mind if Blizzard took ideas from say the AH from say SW:TOR. Or at least the way you can sell stacks of items. Just put everything you have in one big stack and people can buy the amount they need. (interface of the SW:TOR AH is horrible tho)

[judgementofantonidas]

The banks would help, and the banks have guards in place to help protect against these things from happening. I'm not asking for rocket science here, but I am very surprised by the reactions ya'll have to a small timer.

I mean really, what's wrong with the idea? Oh it gives players a chance to not make a huge mistake? It takes away opportunity from snipers? Hmm I think I see where the saltiness is coming from. God forbid we try to alleviate people screwing each other over.

The Auction House is ABOUT screwing over others. Or the prices would be set by Blizzard.

[jackofwind]

Good joke

Except that they aren't getting banned. I've seen same player bot for months, reported him few times, GM confirmed that its most likely a bot that said they'll be "investigating". After few months he disappeared for a week. Guess got a short ban. Then back to botting.

During MoP gem and glyph markets on most big realms were controlled by bots. Blizzard's action? Nerf gems and glyphs.

In WoD same player was controlling craftable BoE mounts market by undercutting entire day within 1-2 minutes after someone else posts. Without even coming online. He was using remote AH bot. Even though remote AH has limit on number of posts, its high enough when dealing with small market, such as mounts market. Blizzard's action? Nothing.

Before someone says "AH bots don't exist", go google. You'll find plenty of them.

Why is it happening? Because AH interface is ancient. Undercutting, sniping, bids are all outdated concepts. AH needs to be rebuilt.

Blizzard bans in waves. They always have, they always will.

You just really need to get better at playing the AH. It's a skill that requires effort and experience, it doesn't just fall into your lap. It's the one remaining haven of true freedom in the game.

[Deleted]

Blizzard bans in waves. They always have, they always will.

That's is not enough. When it comes to farming, few bots don't make a difference. When it comes to battlegrounds, bots are expected. When it comes to AH control, few bots can ruin part of game for all crafters on realm. Ban wave happens, week later botters are back with new accounts, ruining game for another 5-6 months.

You just really need to get better at playing the AH. It's a skill that requires effort and experience, it doesn't just fall into your lap. It's the one remaining haven of true freedom in the game.

I'm quite good at it. Made multiple gold caps before WoD free gold, got almost all TCG mounts, gave away few million, sold couple of million to gold sellers (and didn't get caught) that pretty much paid for all subscription fees I've paid from 2005. But it doesn't mean I'm content with all the botting, sniping and general asshatery.

WoW economy is nothing like real life economy. There are no laws, no control, its wild wild west, but with dull one central way of selling. In real life there are laws to prevent monopolies, goods from different vendors are never the same, logistics involved in production, delivery and lots of other variables that do not exist in game, multiple markets to sell goods, which make all the difference. The most important part is AH is not main content, its just a way of trading goods. Being forced to sit at AH 24/7 to be able to make any gold because of all bots and AH campers is not fun to anyone, except for AH campers. That is not MMO. That is abusing badly designed system.

[jackofwind]

Being forced to sit at AH 24/7 to be able to make any gold because of all bots and AH campers is not fun to anyone, except for AH campers. That is not MMO. That is abusing badly designed system.

But you're not, that's a huge exaggeration.

I can make a minimum of 5k gold easily every day by spending one bathroom break on the remote AH just by flipping mats. That's just hitting my major sellers - if I spent longer and went through more fringe ones I would make more. That's money made without even logging into the game at all.

For me 5k is meaningless now. For most players it is not.

OT: This thread is about sniping. You don't get sniped unless you fuck up your auctions, which leads to the obvious statement: be more careful and don't fuck up. No safety nets are required because it's really not hard to check that your auctions are correct before posting them.

[Samesnotatroll]

And now we're talking about bots and not add ons... You understand the difference of an add on and a bot?

Bots are not allowed, if they exist bring them to blizzard's attention to have them look at it. That's why they have Warden.

If you want people to have good conversations with you at least use the correct definitions.

And I'm sure Blizzard would sooner make a confirm post option if they think it is needed against a bot then implement a grace period only a very few people in the game will ever have a use for.

A confirm button is hard to miss, most people will not know about a grace period so won't check, or will not spot the mistake anyway after it has sold.

They most likely already know about those bots if they exist and deem it not worth the time to make that option. Perhaps with the said overhaul of the AH that may come this expansion or next.



No one is saying it is ok? But how are you going to be prepared if all simple meaningless stuff has a fail safe while the the more meaningful stuff does not and you are prone to lose real items instead of virtual fake items because you are not experienced enough to pay attention or expect everything to have a fail safe?

I'd rather learn it by loosing 1 million WoW gold then loosing 100 euro.



It hardly is tho. You can't go into a shop to buy bread with it, you can't convert it back into real money (the exchange rate would be brutal anyway), you can only spend it on blizzard games/services.

You incorrectly and ignorantly picked apart the post and failed to see the logic in what I was saying, feel sorry for you. At the end of the day you are saying "don't suck" which does zero to progress the conversation, and oceans to prove how ignorant you can be at times.

I've personally lost zero gold to accidents like this, nor have I gained from them, fair to say I'm speaking exactly objectively.

[Amorac]

You incorrectly and ignorantly picked apart the post and failed to see the logic in what I was saying, feel sorry for you. At the end of the day you are saying "don't suck" which does zero to progress the conversation, and oceans to prove how ignorant you can be at times.


I've personally lost zero gold to accidents like this, nor have I gained from them, fair to say I'm speaking exactly objectively.

Right..

this is your original post I replied to;

I may have missed it, but I will say it here/again.

It's not okay for people to make profit or gain off the mistakes or ignorance of others, no matter how meaningless the gain. We need to keep in mind WoW gold=real money now as well.

Hardly a wel thought out elaborate post to be picked apart. What part of my reply is "picking" it apart wrongly ? Why not answer the questions asked?

How is saying "I'd rather learn it by loosing 1 million WoW gold then loosing 100 euro." translate to just "don't suck"?

Why on earth is it so horrible to lose fake money and learning to pay a bit of attention instead of potentially losing real money? Do you believe not learning and being kept oblivious is better after finding fail saves don't exist in the real world? Is fake gold that important to you? Do you want the government to babysit it's citizens even more then they already do?

How is WoW gold even remotely equal to real currency? Can you trade the gold for euro/pounds/dollars? Can I buy a real car with it? Can I use it to buy anything else then blizzard games or services?

/edit
With that said. Your entire contribution to this discussion is 2 posts so far. where the second is adding nothing at all.

As for me not contributing. I already said the given solution is not going to work anyway, offered other solutions (a confirm button, break any add on (non existent ones) that can buy, and have warden be aware of any bots and let Blizzard handle the offenders.

And for why the given solution won't work, people won't know about it, won't check after posting until after being snipped. So they had to learn to check after posting. Better to learn before posting then as that will help out in other situations that won't have a fail save either. Must be hard to grasp I guess?

[Samesnotatroll]

Right..

this is your original post I replied to;




Hardly a wel thought out elaborate post to be picked apart. What part of my reply is "picking" it apart wrongly ? Why not answer the questions asked?

How is saying "I'd rather learn it by loosing 1 million WoW gold then loosing 100 euro." translate to just "don't suck"?

Why on earth is it so horrible to lose fake money and learning to pay a bit of attention instead of potentially losing real money? Do you believe not learning and being kept oblivious is better after finding fail saves don't exist in the real world? Is fake gold that important to you? Do you want the government to babysit it's citizens even more then they already do?

How is WoW gold even remotely equal to real currency? Can you trade the gold for euro/pounds/dollars? Can I buy a real car with it? Can I use it to buy anything else then blizzard games or services?

/edit
With that said. Your entire contribution to this discussion is 2 posts so far. where the second is adding nothing at all.

As for me not contributing. I already said the given solution is not going to work anyway, offered other solutions (a confirm button, break any add on (non existent ones) that can buy, and have warden be aware of any bots and let Blizzard handle the offenders.

And for why the given solution won't work, people won't know about it, won't check after posting until after being snipped. So they had to learn to check after posting. Better to learn before posting then as that will help out in other situations that won't have a fail save either. Must be hard to grasp I guess?

^This is what I mean by picking apart. To have such an aggressive reaction towards any of my responses is of extreme ignorance. My first comment was a general statement about how it is not okay to make gain off the ignorance or mistakes of others, that's a noble thing lost on people like you I suppose. You've rambled on and added a bunch of bullshit literally assuming my thoughts and ideas from a simple comment. Get a grip on reality dude, read some of the ignorant stuff you typed up, perhaps some projection?

Perhaps you've also missed the update about gold basically transferable to bnet balance, it's not an exact exchange that's immediately tangible, but it's conversion is as solid as any market Is as long as their are buyers.

[Amorac]

^This is what I mean by picking apart. To have such an aggressive reaction towards any of my responses is of extreme ignorance.

If you read forums post as aggressive that's your problem. Try not to read them emotionally.

My first comment was a general statement about how it is not okay to make gain off the ignorance or mistakes of others,

And I said nobody said it is ok. I then just asked a simple question to find your point of view on it (the OP) with a bit of reasoning, and yes I did assume you did at least read some of the thread. You know, pretty much the basic of a forum.

that's a noble thing lost on people like you I suppose. You've rambled on and added a bunch of bullshit literally assuming my thoughts and ideas from a simple comment.

Sure... I agreed with you in my first reply. So how is that "noble" lost on me? How is wanting people not losing real money not "noble"?

And Just because you quoted a lot not aimed at you doesn't mean I rambled to your post.

This is "all" I wrote in my reply to you;

No one is saying it is ok? But how are you going to be prepared if all simple meaningless stuff has a fail safe while the the more meaningful stuff does not and you are prone to lose real items instead of virtual fake items because you are not experienced enough to pay attention or expect everything to have a fail safe?

I'd rather learn it by loosing 1 million WoW gold then loosing 100 euro.

It hardly is tho. You can't go into a shop to buy bread with it, you can't convert it back into real money (the exchange rate would be brutal anyway), you can only spend it on blizzard games/services.

Yea, sure a ramble. I lastly tell you WoW gold is not even close to real money.

Get a grip on reality dude, read some of the ignorant stuff you typed up, perhaps some projection?

Perhaps get a grip (Aren't you posting aggressive yourself now with that line?) yourself? Read more then the first op as I assume now that's all you have done?

Perhaps you've also missed the update about gold basically transferable to bnet balance, it's not an exact exchange that's immediately tangible, but it's conversion is as solid as any market Is as long as their are buyers.

Yea, in reality that's not close to real money as you claimed.

Can I use it to buy anything else then blizzard games or services?

You can't can you? Perhaps you want to look up when currency becomes "Real" (see bitcoin for example).

Care to start contributing or just come up with some more nonsense about me? You say I don't contribute but so far you made no meaningful one yourself.

[Deleted]

how dare you suggest i take some personal responsibility for my actions!

aww right, millennials...

/s

[Samesnotatroll]

If you read forums post as aggressive that's your problem. Try not to read them emotionally.



And I said nobody said it is ok. I then just asked a simple question to find your point of view on it (the OP) with a bit of reasoning, and yes I did assume you did at least read some of the thread. You know, pretty much the basic of a forum.



Sure... I agreed with you in my first reply. So how is that "noble" lost on me? How is wanting people not losing real money not "noble"?

And Just because you quoted a lot not aimed at you doesn't mean I rambled to your post.

This is "all" I wrote in my reply to you;



Yea, sure a ramble. I lastly tell you WoW gold is not even close to real money.



Perhaps get a grip (Aren't you posting aggressive yourself now with that line?) yourself? Read more then the first op as I assume now that's all you have done?



Yea, in reality that's not close to real money as you claimed.



You can't can you? Perhaps you want to look up when currency becomes "Real" (see bitcoin for example).

Care to start contributing or just come up with some more nonsense about me? You say I don't contribute but so far you made no meaningful one yourself.

So much is wasted here, sadly.

[Puri]

I don't see this change as urgent in any way, but why not. But mmo-champion is the wrong address, post it in the suggestions in the offical forum.

[Fudal]

I may have missed it, but I will say it here/again.

It's not okay for people to make profit or gain off the mistakes or ignorance of others, no matter how meaningless the gain. We need to keep in mind WoW gold=real money now as well.

It is absolutely ok for me to profit from your ignorance. As long as you are not intentionally exploiting young children, elderly people with dementia, or the mentally defective you are completely acceptable for you to buy things from someone who undervalues items or mistakenly sells a family heirloom. In game just as in life decisions have consequences; if you undervalue your product it isn't my responsibility to inform you.

[Amorac]

So much is wasted here, sadly.

So nothing to contribute apperently. Only a lame "bad people should not take advantage of others remark". Thanks for wasted space and time indeed. Talk about sadly. Can't even answer a question or 2 or counter anything in a useful way.

Thanks for playing, you are the weakest link. Good bey. /joking.

[Samesnotatroll]

So nothing to contribute apperently. Only a lame "bad people should not take advantage of others remark". Thanks for wasted space and time indeed. Talk about sadly. Can't even answer a question or 2 or counter anything in a useful way.

Thanks for playing, you are the weakest link. Good bey. /joking.

You countered nothing and spewed ignorant bullshit, if that truly is your resolve, then I am vehemently saddened by your flimsy idea of "contribute". You told people to not be bad, you didn't offer anything useful, said be more careful. I accept that as an option, I also think a world where mistakes one may make does not = a profit for others who see your mistake and jump on it to capitalize is a better world. If you don't think so, then you are arguing in favor of injustice. Plain and simple mate.

[crazyman2]

It's not that hard to double check your prices. That said, it happens pretty frequently and I don't think a 30 second window hurts anyone and does save a few people.

You do have to put a foot down at some point.

Speaking of AH bots, there used to be a guy on my server that was listing all kinds of rare shit way overpriced, but would undercut you by the time the page refreshed. A friend of mine tried undercutting deep on some kind of world drop bracer pattern from TBC and got sniped by the guy, so I guess it was set to some kind of threshold, I didn't feel like losing a bunch of money to figure out exactly what was going on.

edit - and I haven't seen anything of his in a while, probably DID get banned

[socanyou]

In how many cases do you think people review and catch the "mistake" of posting an item for a low buyout? You're the one who thinks they were too incompetent to look at what they were doing in the first place. Do you think there are any risks to adding a 10 minute buffer? The premise of your thread - that buying low priced items is immoral - makes me want you banned more than anybody using a tool to scan the AH. With that said, I don't think third party software should be allowed to help you find those items.

[Amorac]

You countered nothing and spewed ignorant bullshit, if that truly is your resolve, then I am vehemently saddened by your flimsy idea of "contribute".

Thanks for stating you al least accept it wrapped with unneeded crap. Must be difficult to just share your thoughts about the subject. Ironic/hypocrite for you to say others ramble.

I doubt you can even offer what part is bullshit of my original reply to you and sad you don't even know I offered other solutions you had bothered to read the thread some more.

You told people to not be bad, you didn't offer anything useful, said be more careful. I accept that as an option,

And now you bring in my other replies to others or something. Then again you failed to notice 2 other solutions brought up that would at least work. The grace period will do nothing to help prevent (a first) mistake.

But in my original reply I never said that people should not be bad. I asked you a question you could have replied to before going on a rambling rampage.

I also think a world where mistakes one may make does not = a profit for others who see your mistake and jump on it to capitalize is a better world. If you don't think so, then you are arguing in favor of injustice. Plain and simple mate.

And right back to my first reply... Nobody said it is ok that people take advantage of others. I simply asked how you are going to defend yourself in the real world if you are never going to learn to do so. Or is your solution to magically make bad people go nice in the real world?

To help you out again;

It's not okay for people to make profit or gain off the mistakes or ignorance of others, no matter how meaningless the gain.

No one is saying it is ok? But how are you going to be prepared if all simple meaningless stuff has a fail safe while the the more meaningful stuff does not and you are prone to lose real items instead of virtual fake items because you are not experienced enough to pay attention or expect everything to have a fail safe?

I'd rather learn it by loosing 1 million WoW gold then loosing 100 euro.

We need to keep in mind WoW gold=real money now as well.

It hardly is tho. You can't go into a shop to buy bread with it, you can't convert it back into real money (the exchange rate would be brutal anyway), you can only spend it on blizzard games/services.