So how are your games going lately? [megathread]

[Woobels]

No, walking around the map and you happen to see someone that you can hook combo or one-shot with your right-click isn't outplaying the opponent. Or even better, coming around a corner and stand right in roadhogs face while he left-clicks you without hooking. That's not outplaying anyone.

Roadhog is my main, I'm not outplaying people by playing an overpowered character that can instakill most of the characters in the game, most of them are far better players than I am but they can't do much if I hit a hook. If I hit it, they're 100% dead unless there's a zarya to shield them. I'm playing him solely because he's too strong to not play. You seriously can't use the "Just stay at range" argument when you need to actually get on the points to fight to win.

I hate this 'They're far better players than me but I'm just winning because Roadhog!', the only reason you're saying that is to put more emphasis on how overpowered you think Roadhog is.

If you're getting loads of hooks on important targets they're either not better players than you or they're running a shit team comp.

Also the mentality that you need to be able to escape with every hero when you get hooked is fucking dumb, if a Roadhog hooks a Tracer or Genji they should 100% be dead, that's a 50/50 matchup and the last thing you want is Tracer and Genji being even more free to do what they want.

The only issue I have with Roadhog is how threatening he is to Reaper at higher levels of play.

[Endus]

No, walking around the map and you happen to see someone that you can hook combo or one-shot with your right-click isn't outplaying the opponent. Or even better, coming around a corner and stand right in roadhogs face while he left-clicks you without hooking. That's not outplaying anyone.

It is. That's you flanking properly, and them not having map awareness.

Roadhog is my main, I'm not outplaying people by playing an overpowered character that can instakill most of the characters in the game, most of them are far better players than I am but they can't do much if I hit a hook. If I hit it, they're 100% dead unless there's a zarya to shield them. I'm playing him solely because he's too strong to not play. You seriously can't use the "Just stay at range" argument when you need to actually get on the points to fight to win.

Planetoverwatch has Roadhog listed as "C-tier".
Metabomb has him listed as "tier 3".
Ten Ton Hammer has him as "A tier", but they have an "A+ tier" where Rein and Zarya are ahead of him, and an "S tier" above that.

Is there a hero ranking that I'm overlooking that you'd prefer I use? No ranking I know of considers Roadhog to be "overpowered". He has a strong niche, but has a ton of weaknesses, and provides very little (read: zero) team support other than being a target and getting picks.

[Pendulous]

Sometimes, I feel like my grievances aren't taken seriously because I only participate in Quick Play. It's as if I'm invalid because I'm not playing the "Real Game". It's frustrating sometimes.

Welcome to my life.

"I have 40 hours on this hero, let me explain how it works."

"Go away 1600 scrub that one time you played competitive and got nothing but shit-talkers".

[Jessicka]

Welcome to my life.

"I have 40 hours on this hero, let me explain how it works."

"Go away 1600 scrub that one time you played competitive and got nothing but shit-talkers".

Still happens at 100+ hours. And being matched in QP against players 1k SR above you :S

[Sixnalia]

Played hours of Arcade, mainly mystery heroes. Finally worked up the courage and played my first Competitive season for S3. Did my placement matches, one match per day. Won 8, lost 2.

Ended up getting placed in Platinum right on the verge of Diamond. 2975 ranking.
Did a couple more matches and went down to 2825, then got to 3100 a day or so prior to the season ending.
I'm overall fairly happy.

I had doubts about myself and was expecting to be low gold or high silver after reading several horror stories from other players.

I primarily played Lucio and Ana, but played Rein once as others insta-locked Lucio/Ana.

A few of my final matches during placement, I was asked if I was a Smurf. I was pretty confused until I looked up the term, when I asked the players they just chuckled. Guessing they assumed I was joking. Still not sure if I'd take it as a compliment, but most people seemed to appreciate how I played Lucio.

I have to say, out of the roughly 16 matches(counting placement) in competitive, people were incredibly friendly and communicative. Only one individual started off raging/yelling as we lost a round, but he mellowed out and apologized and we were able to win the match. I was expecting worse with what I had read on forums about behavior.

[Advent]

Give it some time. The ragers will be back and in full force eventually, I'm sure.

[Eapoe]

It is. That's you flanking properly, and them not having map awareness.



Planetoverwatch has Roadhog listed as "C-tier".
Metabomb has him listed as "tier 3".
Ten Ton Hammer has him as "A tier", but they have an "A+ tier" where Rein and Zarya are ahead of him, and an "S tier" above that.

Is there a hero ranking that I'm overlooking that you'd prefer I use? No ranking I know of considers Roadhog to be "overpowered". He has a strong niche, but has a ton of weaknesses, and provides very little (read: zero) team support other than being a target and getting picks.

Planetoverwatch states that "become handy with landing hooks and he moves up a rank or 2."
Tentonhammer lists him as a "very strong choice that can take a lot of punishment and deal massive damage, with a drawback of low mobility."
His ranks as how people pick him also don't signify an aspect of OP, especially when you have to take into account that most people talking about him are your average players. So people say "he's not picked much in meta and pro league!" Yeah, that's awesome, but that's also top tier people playing together and picking the absolute best for their tier of play. That's even stated on one of your rankings sites.
Never understood why people always try to talk about top tier players as the standard for everyone else. According to those sites, his low representation means he actually needs buffed further or everyone above him needs strong nerfs. Is that what you are going for based on your examples?

[Endus]

Planetoverwatch states that "become handy with landing hooks and he moves up a rank or 2."
Tentonhammer lists him as a "very strong choice that can take a lot of punishment and deal massive damage, with a drawback of low mobility."
His ranks as how people pick him also don't signify an aspect of OP, especially when you have to take into account that most people talking about him are your average players. So people say "he's not picked much in meta and pro league!" Yeah, that's awesome, but that's also top tier people playing together and picking the absolute best for their tier of play. That's even stated on one of your rankings sites.
Never understood why people always try to talk about top tier players as the standard for everyone else. According to those sites, his low representation means he actually needs buffed further or everyone above him needs strong nerfs. Is that what you are going for based on your examples?

If he was that overpowered, he WOULD be picked that much in the top-tier games.

He isn't.

He's basically the next step up from Bastion; totally great at abusing people's mistakes, but those mistakes happen less and less at higher tiers.

And no; those sites rank him as pretty average. That's not grounds to call for a buff. He's got a strong niche, but he's not a carry you insta-pick every match.

[Eapoe]

If he was that overpowered, he WOULD be picked that much in the top-tier games.

He isn't.

He's basically the next step up from Bastion; totally great at abusing people's mistakes, but those mistakes happen less and less at higher tiers.

And no; those sites rank him as pretty average. That's not grounds to call for a buff. He's got a strong niche, but he's not a carry you insta-pick every match.

Never said he was a carry pick, I said he's overpowered. Where most average people sit, that's very true. Blizzard is constantly attempting balancing based on metas and pick choices as they have stated, they do not want people picking characters because they have to, they want them to pick them because they want to.
Blizzard has even gone about looking for ways to fix him, because even devs have stated he is a little too strong.
It's the same reasoning behind DVa's buffs into high end power mode and then nerfed again. It's the same reasoning they nerfed McCree and have mentioned looking at him again. It's the same thing with working on Hog's hooking ability. Even the devs think he is too strong.
You're arguing too much for top end, 6 man team games where the top notch can lock him down and make him less of a pick and not looking at where most of the average "I want to be great" players are at.

[Jessicka]

If he was that overpowered, he WOULD be picked that much in the top-tier games.

He isn't.

He's basically the next step up from Bastion; totally great at abusing people's mistakes, but those mistakes happen less and less at higher tiers.

And no; those sites rank him as pretty average. That's not grounds to call for a buff. He's got a strong niche, but he's not a carry you insta-pick every match.

Kind of moot, they can't just balance him for high end play; he is having a detrimental impact at the lower end of the game where his skill cap was lowered significantly with the last Hook change. Everyone accepts that's what happened with him, and he can't stay that way. Same reason they had to work on Widow from the other end when she dominated the top end of the game but had little impact at the bottom. Same again with Bastion where he's strong at the bottom and worthless at the top. I expect to see something with Symmetra again, because there are so many low level complaints, but she's still so poor at the top.

On a brighter note. https://gfycat.com/BogusWideFoxhound

[Museigen]

On the other hand you don't balance an esport game around people who run in front of their rein shield and stand in plain view of the enemy team. Short of removing hook there is nothing that will help the low end deal with hog. The low ends problem with hog is their own awareness and positioning, it cannot be fixed by tweaks to heroes.

What about hogs skill cap got lower that everyone accepts now? The only way his skill cap got lower is from his hook not placing enemies anywhere within 360 degrees of the hogs FoV and it came at the cost of LoS requirements during pull. The first is a fix the second is clearly a nerf.

[Pendulous]

On the other hand you don't balance an esport game around people who run in front of their rein shield and stand in plain view of the enemy team. Short of removing hook there is nothing that will help the low end deal with hog. The low ends problem with hog is their own awareness and positioning, it cannot be fixed by tweaks to heroes.

What about hogs skill cap got lower that everyone accepts now? The only way his skill cap got lower is from his hook not placing enemies anywhere within 360 degrees of the hogs FoV and it came at the cost of LoS requirements during pull. The first is a fix the second is clearly a nerf.

Because the hook is now much more consistent, people are using him differently. Instead of getting position for good shots, people are using his health and healing to stay alive between hooks and using it more. I even feel it a little in my gameplay as well, and see it in others. However, the one change I wish they'd make to the hook is give it a shorter range.

As far as balancing, I've said this before, but with 25 million supposed players, you don't balance the heroes around D the top 500. What about the 99 percent?

[Jessicka]

On the other hand you don't balance an esport game around people who run in front of their rein shield and stand in plain view of the enemy team. Short of removing hook there is nothing that will help the low end deal with hog. The low ends problem with hog is their own awareness and positioning, it cannot be fixed by tweaks to heroes.

What about hogs skill cap got lower that everyone accepts now? The only way his skill cap got lower is from his hook not placing enemies anywhere within 360 degrees of the hogs FoV and it came at the cost of LoS requirements during pull. The first is a fix the second is clearly a nerf.

The problem at high end was that people were 'dodging' it, but it was pulling them around corners - if they got hooked, they were getting killed because those players could consistently execute the combo. Now, it still does have some issues with Hooking around corners, but fewer of them so higher end players got the nerf they asked for - please don't forget that. The execution in the Combo though, is much more automated now; at lower end it was much less fatal than it is now. It's proven to be a significant buff for him at those levels.

[Very Tired]

Because the hook is now much more consistent, people are using him differently. Instead of getting position for good shots, people are using his health and healing to stay alive between hooks and using it more. I even feel it a little in my gameplay as well, and see it in others. However, the one change I wish they'd make to the hook is give it a shorter range.

As far as balancing, I've said this before, but with 25 million supposed players, you don't balance the heroes around D the top 500. What about the 99 percent?

But just because we aren't playing heroes and their counters to their full potential doesn't mean the game should be balanced around fixing that. Otherwise Bastions, who destroy new players should be nerfed, while Ana, who consistently sucks at my level, should be buffed.

Quite the opposite case is needed in terms of balancing at higher levels and it wouldn't be the making of a serious fps.

[Endus]

But just because we aren't playing heroes and their counters to their full potential doesn't mean the game should be balanced around fixing that. Otherwise Bastions, who destroy new players should be nerfed, while Ana, who consistently sucks at my level, should be buffed.

Quite the opposite case is needed in terms of balancing at higher levels and it wouldn't be the making of a serious fps.

Plus, you can hardly have the characters change their performance based on player skill level.

It's a case where "git gud" is the appropriate response. If Roadhog keeps eating your face, learn how to wreck him and not let him do that. That may mean you have to get better as a player, but that should be your goal.

[TriHard]

This thread needs to be renamed to just "Overwatch" or "Overwatch 2017"

[Jessicka]

Plus, you can hardly have the characters change their performance based on player skill level.

It's a case where "git gud" is the appropriate response. If Roadhog keeps eating your face, learn how to wreck him and not let him do that. That may mean you have to get better as a player, but that should be your goal.

These things can exist within a delta though, not always as a binary case of 'terrible at low level, deity at high level' or vice versa. That's why they buff, nerf, and make wholesale adjustments to mechanics to try to achieve this. Even when 'git gud' is the answer, you want to go through a gradient of improvement, not find something barely playable until something 'clicks' in to place.

https://gfycat.com/RespectfulSomeClingfish

[Eapoe]

Plus, you can hardly have the characters change their performance based on player skill level.

It's a case where "git gud" is the appropriate response. If Roadhog keeps eating your face, learn how to wreck him and not let him do that. That may mean you have to get better as a player, but that should be your goal.

But then, why has any character ever been changed? Almost every single instance of buff or nerf to a character could be reduced to "why change it? Git Gud!"
Why did they change McCree early on? Obviously people just needed to git gud to counter him. Why change Ana's healing grenade? Obviously people just need to git gud to counter how much healing it could do. Why the buffs and then nerfs to DVa, obviously players just need to git gud and learn how to use her better. Why fix Hog's hook to break if he loses LoS, just git gud and never get hit by it.

[Woobels]

But then, why has any character ever been changed? Almost every single instance of buff or nerf to a character could be reduced to "why change it? Git Gud!"
Why did they change McCree early on? Obviously people just needed to git gud to counter him. Why change Ana's healing grenade? Obviously people just need to git gud to counter how much healing it could do. Why the buffs and then nerfs to DVa, obviously players just need to git gud and learn how to use her better. Why fix Hog's hook to break if he loses LoS, just git gud and never get hit by it.

Stop talking out of your ass, all of those heroes were way more centralizing (Ana still is, tbh) and had higher pickrates than Hog currently does in high level play.

I really don't understand what you're trying to say with this post because the examples are so bad.

[Eapoe]

Stop talking out of your ass, all of those heroes were way more centralizing (Ana still is, tbh) and had higher pickrates than Hog currently does in high level play.

I really don't understand what you're trying to say with this post because the examples are so bad.

Example still stands in the context of the original post I quoted...why change any hero when the most common denominator is git gud? Who cares if they were centralizing? They had counters, they could just as easily be countered as people want to say Hog is, point of fact. Even to the changes of McCree, he is still one of the highest picked heroes and more representation in high ranked play, so obvious answer=git gud.
I love how people respond with things like "talking out your ass," or "shit post," when their own examples and ideals are thrown back at them.