Why the fuck do people ask for such high item levels for Karazhan

[Marrilaife]

Because enough people have high ilvl in pug finder no one has to lower the requirement if they can fill the group easy & fast with high ilvl people.

Example: I made a group for court of stars on my 830-something fresh alt, put a requirement 830+ and took literally the first people who listed and fit the required roles. Didn't see a single low ilvl, lowest after me was an 857 tank, everyone else was 870+ and that was within 5 mins of listing the group. No one even bothered to check my char and comment on shit ilvl.

And since Nightbane is a timed run you basically have 1 per week chance you don't wanna spoil, no one wants to take risks and waste their time. So it's gonna be zerg requirements.

[pitakos]

I am not in a raiding guild and I play 3 chars. My "main" demon hunter is 902 , my "alt" lock is 890 and my herbalist hunter is 886 (equipped not general). I have done like 5 heroic clears with my dh, 7/10hc once and 2 normal (not even full) with my lock, and 2 times like 3-4/10 with my hunter in Nighthold with pugs. Other than that I do 1 m+ (around 5-6lvl) once with my alts for the weekly and +15 with my dh and the emissaries.


Nightbane Karazhan was a struggle with 870 before, to a place were making 1-2 mistakes would result in a failure. It is old content at this time, and since playing a character for max 4 hours a week the past month you can get 880+ why even bother make the run a struggle when in can be done without stress and with room for errors. Being at this time 860 is not the random people's fault, but yours, and if you so badly want Nightbane before getting the gear the public is asking (890 is achievable with pugging and not even every boss) you should just buy a boost, dont ask for a free one from others

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Answer me this people that think it's insane. You start your own group with zero requirements and 10 people sign up. You know nothing about any of them. 4 of them are 910 and fit the roles you need. The 6 remaining could also fill the roles you need but their highest item level is 865. Do you purposely skip taking those 910s out of so sort of spite and take in a purposefully weaker group or so you end up taking the people with the higher item level?

Since I know this is MMO Champion I know I will get a few crusaders saying they would. Which proves they are fucking idiots. Most people would default to taking the higher geared player. Odds are higher of a smooth run and fuck it just makes sense. All requesting the higher number does is deter players they will decline anyway.

Does it require that item level to pull off? No. But the odds do increase you will finish and meet your goals with that item level. People like higher odds. I mean look at all the QQ about RNG these days. Why not lean RNG more in your favor when you can? Answer is most people do. Like it or not that is just how it is.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

They want to gain the benefits of leading while doing less of it.

There is no promise of success at higher item level.

If you are that obsessed with a smooth experience, then start actually doing your job as a leader by judging people by more than the simplest measure possible.
We used to talk to people and had less problems.
Now we keep taking shortcuts, complain when those shortcuts have problems, and then have to raise the barrier, in effect creating even more shortcuts.
Yet it is never the fault of the one using problematic measures.

If item level has to be raised so much, then that speaks volumes about how useless the measure is.
But we keep insisting on using it, because it is "quick".
Speaks volumes more about the players than the system.

Except it doesn't present a problem for most of those forming the groups? You are overlooking market forces. Supply and demand. No one asked for 900 groups when we were raiding EN. You'd have set all day in queue without filling. Now 900 players are easy to find. If a 900 player starts a group, he thinks "I'd like to have other players as geared as I am" and sets requirements accordingly. Keeping in mind that a player showing 900 in queue is probably 890-something. Doesn't matter whether that level of gear is absolutely required. If it's easy to find other players that geared who want to join you, there's no real downside to doing it that way (other than the players who feel left out).

On the flip side, if lots of players feel left out and think the requirements in group finder are silly high, there's nothing stopping them from banding together and doing it at lower levels.

[De Lupe]

Answer me this people that think it's insane. You start your own group with zero requirements and 10 people sign up. You know nothing about any of them. 4 of them are 910 and fit the roles you need. The 6 remaining could also fill the roles you need but their highest item level is 865. Do you purposely skip taking those 910s out of so sort of spite and take in a purposefully weaker group or so you end up taking the people with the higher item level?

Since I know this is MMO Champion I know I will get a few crusaders saying they would. Which proves they are fucking idiots. Most people would default to taking the higher geared player. Odds are higher of a smooth run and fuck it just makes sense. All requesting the higher number does is deter players they will decline anyway.

Does it require that item level to pull off? No. But the odds do increase you will finish and meet your goals with that item level. People like higher odds. I mean look at all the QQ about RNG these days. Why not lean RNG more in your favor when you can? Answer is most people do. Like it or not that is just how it is.

Playing Devil's advocate here:

If you start a group with zero requirements, you are, by definition, NOT requiring high item levels and therefore it defeats the purpose of your example.

[Arachnofiend]

Just wait until you get into a 900+ group and they want to use invis pots...

Eh, even at 893 item level I'd rather just invis pot through the Firelands Portal room than take a risk at the only area with even a chance of failure. As long as you're not a dumbass and using current xpac pots they're incredibly cheap anyways.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Playing Devil's advocate here:

If you start a group with zero requirements, you are, by definition, NOT requiring high item levels and therefore it defeats the purpose of your example.

Minus the fact 10 signed up and you can only pick 4. Not to mention ilevel is displayed. So the example is valid because it is in fact how the system works. Unless you just have it on auto invite but that gets a little messy with roles now doesn't it.

Stop trying to poke holes in something and just deal with me being right.

[barackohmama]

If they ask for 900+ for kara, then chances are high someone in that group is getting boosted. I'm 905 equiped and I try to stay away from silly groups like that.

- - - Updated - - -

Who cares, if the leader has low itemlevel and invites only 900+ people , that's still a group I can just jump into get going and gaurantee success. Every1 is free to make their own group and invite whoever the fuck they want. If you want you can fill a group with nothing but 860 ilvl people and do nightbane that way, I wish you the best of luck.

You don't have the the right to do any kind of content and join the groups people spend their time making, just because you reach the itemlevle requirement set by blizzard. If the leader only invites people who own 3 black cats, that his fucking business, don't like it, go somewhere else or make your own.

How is this still a topic is beyond me.

I would instantly leave if leader was undergeared, doesn't matter if he invites all 900+ ppl. It's not a guaranteed success at all with a clueless leader. Same goes for NH heroic. It doesnt matter if everyone in the group has curve and 900+ when the leadership fails mechanics time after time and wipes the group.

[Raetary]

Because people are lazy and want to get carried afap.

[Deleted]

I see groups like NIGHTBANE RUN 900+ FAST FAST FAST, lowest I've seen is 870+. Like what the fuck lol. I'm doing mythic dungeons and LFR and I'm like 860.

I feel you on this topic about "high item level requirements on LFG"
What i did is make my own group for Khara, pugg Nighthold Normal every week in LFG, do emissary quests everyday to get 2 legendaries, at least Mythic +10 Dungeon for the Chest Epic in your class hall.

In 1 Month (less for me) you will be ilvl 880 with 2 legendaries and will be able to enter most groups in LFG.

[Wenoxar]

I see groups like NIGHTBANE RUN 900+ FAST FAST FAST, lowest I've seen is 870+. Like what the fuck lol. I'm doing mythic dungeons and LFR and I'm like 860.

Higher ilv = faster
Higher ilv = lesser risk of failure
Higher ilv = statistically better

[De Lupe]

Minus the fact 10 signed up and you can only pick 4. Not to mention ilevel is displayed. So the example is valid because it is in fact how the system works. Unless you just have it on auto invite but that gets a little messy with roles now doesn't it.

Stop trying to poke holes in something and just deal with me being right.

I don't really care either way.

Never said you were wrong. Just helping you identify the problem with your example. Examples that are themselves invalid are not great discussion points.

[Redecle]

880 and haven't even touched Kara yet. Just waiting on the heroic version so i can press a button to queue up and win, just for the reasons mentioned already on page one.
If someone else makes a group they expect to have the best with them and since they don't know you they go for the thing they do know which is the ilvl and i'm not going to start proving myself over a dungeon. They don't want the risk, i don't care.
And if i'd make my own group, i'd pretty much do the same. There's plenty enough of elitist in me left from the raiding days, but just enough of lazyness now days to not do anything about it. And even more so i won't even bother to try cause i won't find the people i'm looking for since they don't even exist.
Currently if i'd bother to raid my mentality is straight, clear mythic first week in less than 4 hours or don't play, as far as i know even the best guilds in the world can't do that so why bother trying, when you can do the easier version with a button and not have any stress over any matter.

Zero stress or best gear.. Let's see.. Zero stress wins everytime.
Patience is the key, the only thing in that place to get is the mount.
But i already waited 6,5 years every week for the second warglaive before i got it so i think i can wait 2 months for a mount.
And i missed my Zulian Tiger already from ZG, so i'm just currently waiting on 10 million players to quit the game so i can win the starting minimum bid in the BMAH to get mine, so yeah.. Patience.

[silloh]

And there are also differences in just doing the dungeon and doing the extra things wich requires higher ilvl and some experience in said dungeon...

[meganite]

OP, we are almost 7 months into Legion, 8 months prob before new xp. you'll be able to solo kara soon :P

[Gen4Glock21]

Because no matter how much the elitist douche bags claim they want a challenge they in fact do not and they want to be able to face roll the content just as much as the newb casual. The only reason they want to keep this content on lfg is because they use it as a gold making source.

[Radaney]

Because people with high ilevel can statistically bring bigger numbers so bring more success chance.

[Yunaqt]

Because I take a guildies or friends 870ilvl toon that ends up doing comparable dps or beating 890 pugs half the time. So taking the risk on a lower geared pug could result in even worse experiences.

I gave a 840 tank a chance on a VotW+2 and he managed to deplete the key because on the last boss

"the wind keeps knocking me off the edge".

Pretty much as good as a EoA+5 where the tank decided to go go afk every few minutes.

[Alvito]

People want the highest chance of success. Why would you invite 860s when you can get people with 900+?

Exactly this you could take one of the 4 dozen 860~ people that would like to come or you can wait a minute and get a full 900+ group and blast through the place and easily make all timers.

[DarthMonk79]

Its not so much the highest chance of success as much as they want the easiest chance of success. Heavenforbid you have to communicate and think with the group you're in for a dungeon/raid run. Most of these are then the same people that complain about the game being too easy yet they only accept people in their groups that would make said run easy. Welcome to the WoW community, it has unfortunately been this way for a few expansions now. Probably ever since late Wrath!