MG and Drain Soul is boring please dont kill off multi dotting in 7.2

[Uzkin]

That's how I read that blue post as well. Warlocks have three dps spec so each one needs to suck at something to justify it doing well in it;s niche.

Priests have one dps spec so lets just make it excel at everything.

With the exception of the Xelnath era, this is how Blizzard wants to design warlocks. I call it the warlock tax.

[Deleted]

All we need is Soul Swap but they wont add it until next expansion. Making Corruption last longer would be OK too. All 3 specs have terrible gameplay compared to WoD, I dont even mention MoP because it would be like comparing 10/10 chick to Clinton

[Nutri]

Except you didn't use DS <20% in TBC

You're right.
I should have said I like the toolkit of Aff better in TBC, my wording wasn't quite right.
Plus it sadly ended up being suc/sac shadowbolt spam T6 onwards.

[Ziriell]

I won't be surprised if they'll destroy affliction's ST and make it ultra op on multi-target because of one of those people that are never happy with anything and now when developers noticed them...

[lonely zergling]

Kinda worried now that they destroy our viability just because some people cant have enough...

Multi dotting is boring and a spec should never get balanced around council fights....

[Violetti]

Why not have both? Shadow Priests do.

They dont. EN and ToV SPriests did, but they were just overtuned, everyone knows that. Bottom 6 on Krosus are 1 spec of Hunter, Mage and Warlock and all the 3 non taxed hybrid ranges .

[derpkitteh]

Play assassination rogue. Best ST spec in the game by a huge margin, totally mongoloid to play. You just roll your face on the keyboard and do 10%+ more ST DPS than anyone else.

i like the aesthetics of sub better, but i have been messing with assassin a bit.

btw, probably shouldn't use mongoloid as an insult my dude. it's a classification of humanoid, not another word for retard. east asians = mongoloids.

[Deleted]

btw, probably shouldn't use mongoloid as an insult my dude. it's a classification of humanoid, not another word for retard. east asians = mongoloids.

Funny, I read "I love to smell my own farts".

[Baconeggcheese]

This. The blue post already hinted as much. It pretty much said "we don't want affliction to have good ST damage". So, they will most likely nerf MG... and leave the 7.2 tier bonuses as they are.

We'll see, I have a hard time getting that impression about the tier when he says:

It's good feedback on the preliminary T20 set bonuses that they might push Affliction _away_ from feeling good when multi-dotting, which is something we'd want to avoid.

I provided more feedback in the thread because a couple comments he made did concern me, but in a different way than you all seem to be concerned. If they want to make the spec actually feel good / be strong in multi-dot, that goes hand in hand with re-adjusting MG. They can't buff dot dmg without nerfing MG to keep its relative dmg the same~ish.

If you guys feel strongly about this and haven't already replied, please do reply to the thread and give feedback. There is very little good feedback in the class discussion forum for our class right now, the majority of it is just snide / snarky comments and complaining that we never get blue posts. And then people wonder why we don't get the changes we want.

I'm doing my best to make write ups and start discussions like the one sigma responded to so that the devs have something worth reading in that section to help locks out. It'd be nice if there were more people contributing in a positive manner, as opposed to the bickering I constantly see there.

[scrynlock]

Imagine having Writhe in Agony without the ramping effect and where you can refresh it on every target by casting Unstable Affliction

It's why Shadow Priests not affliction locks are so good on Botanist.

but aff is better than spriest on mythic botanist

[A dot Ham]

everytime aff is good at multidotting everyone wants us to have more singletarget, everytime we get more singletarget everyone wants more multidotting back ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Well to be fair it is 100% a catch-22 you CANNOT have it both ways.

If multi dotting is how an aff lock is balanced. Then it only performs well on multi-target fights... and is utter trash in a single target fight.

I actually think that buffing MG/drain soul IS the answer.

If multi-dotting is available... that method/style/tactic/rotation will prove far more beneficial if you ignore MG/drain soul and focus solely on multi-dotting. Whereas in the absence of multiple targets, MG/drain soul buff allows you to stay competitive. Maybe not #1 competitor as your/our strength is multi target, but not so low that you'll be benched.

[Baconeggcheese]

Well to be fair it is 100% a catch-22 you CANNOT have it both ways.

If multi dotting is how an aff lock is balanced. Then it only performs well on multi-target fights... and is utter trash in a single target fight.

That's not true at all, the two are not mutually exclusive. Especially with the existence of malefic grasp or even soul effigy.

MoP alone disproves this notion, where aff was our strongest ST spec and multi-dot spec. It all comes down to how the specs designed.

[cristos]

That's how I read that blue post as well. Warlocks have three dps spec so each one needs to suck at something to justify it doing well in it;s niche.

Priests have one dps spec so lets just make it excel at everything.

See this is the kind of stuff that bothers me, What's the point of playing a pure dps class when you could play a hybrid dps class and have the 1 spec do almost everything our 3 specs can but half the effort is required.

I almost feel like specs like shadow has no weakness. Their ramp up time is so minuscule compared to lets say affliction or demonology and their ramp up.

Lets break down the ramp up for each class/spec

-Shadow Priest-
Apply dots> Mind blast> Cast filler> Voidform

-Demonology Warlock-
Filler to build shards> HoG> Summon dreadstalkers> Filler to build shards> HoG> Summon dreadstalkers> TKC

-Affliction Warlock-
Apply dots> Filler> Refresh dots> Filler> Wait patiently for agony to ramp up to 10-20 stacks> Wait for shard procs> Wait for reap souls procs> UA dump> Reap souls usage> Refresh dots> Filler> Repeat

Why is it warlocks have so many weaknesses but very few strengths.

Don't even want to go into weaknesses but here's just a few to add.

RNG, Immobile, Very situational specs at best to perform well, Gear dependant, High ramp with 2/3 specs, Barely any burst, Mediocre sustained damage.

[lollified]

Play assassination rogue. Best ST spec in the game by a huge margin, totally mongoloid to play. You just roll your face on the keyboard and do 10%+ more ST DPS than anyone else.

You might want to check logs for say mythic Krosus. There are way more fury warriors and demon hunters than assasination rogues in top 100 and at about the same number of frost death knights. If you also consider that all of the 3 specs I mentioned have way better aoe compared to assasination, I would say that assasination is doing bad for a spec that can only do one thing.
Ignorant comments like yours make the warlock community look bad. FYI playing assasination isn't any easier than playing say affliction.

[cristos]

Well to be fair it is 100% a catch-22 you CANNOT have it both ways.

If multi dotting is how an aff lock is balanced. Then it only performs well on multi-target fights... and is utter trash in a single target fight.

I actually think that buffing MG/drain soul IS the answer.

If multi-dotting is available... that method/style/tactic/rotation will prove far more beneficial if you ignore MG/drain soul and focus solely on multi-dotting. Whereas in the absence of multiple targets, MG/drain soul buff allows you to stay competitive. Maybe not #1 competitor as your/our strength is multi target, but not so low that you'll be benched.

Why was affliction the highest single target sustained damage in Hellfire citadel?

Simulation craft information is readily available online as reference points to confirm my claims of this.

Not to mention the reliability of it's sustained damage which we don't have anymore. Nothing is reliable about the damage from the artifact weapon to the procs we get anymore.

Drain soul used to have a mechanic built into it that used to make our dots tick harder but they removed it and gave us back a filler which has no interaction with dots. After that they decided it would be a good idea to give it back to us as a talent.

[Baconeggcheese]

See this is the kind of stuff that bothers me, What's the point of playing a pure dps class when you could play a hybrid dps class and have the 1 spec do almost everything our 3 specs can but half the effort is required.

Spriest has mediocre ST that's even worse than destro outside of execute / adds to proc twist of fate, no aoe to speak of, and no priority burst. That's why the spec is mediocre in dungeons, despite being such a powerhouse in raids. I don't really get where people think spriest has no limitations.

[Deleted]

Well to be fair it is 100% a catch-22 you CANNOT have it both ways.

If multi dotting is how an aff lock is balanced. Then it only performs well on multi-target fights... and is utter trash in a single target fight.

I actually think that buffing MG/drain soul IS the answer.

If multi-dotting is available... that method/style/tactic/rotation will prove far more beneficial if you ignore MG/drain soul and focus solely on multi-dotting. Whereas in the absence of multiple targets, MG/drain soul buff allows you to stay competitive. Maybe not #1 competitor as your/our strength is multi target, but not so low that you'll be benched.

Nonsense, you can have it both ways, the devs can do it anytime they want. But they don;t want to because they are locke dinto this dumb "a strength must involve a weakness"

Which is fine, except the game also has in it classes that are exempt from the "performance tax"

- - - Updated - - -

You might want to check logs for say mythic Krosus. There are way more fury warriors and demon hunters than assasination rogues in top 100 and at about the same number of frost death knights..

I'd be willing to bet that the warriors and demon hunters have Draught of Souls, which is ridiculously powerful, especially for warriors, where it is up to 15% of their damage.

[Orwell7]

Why was affliction the highest single target sustained damage in Hellfire citadel?

I don't know what you're smoking but the average cutting-edge progression pretty much looked like this:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Note: this log is from September when people did ~70-80k dps maximum.
Nobody really cared about uber-upgraded rings and valor upgrades during real progression.
Go see Method's killvideo and check.

Warlocks were nowhere near the top "recount" damage dealers - but they were excellent at priority targets. Which I really loved - I felt useful. Nowadays even with Destruction I feel that I'm much more of a burden to my raid than useful, with the constant life tapping, refreshing ELT, not being able to bank resources and that my damage is shifted to immolate/demon.
I don't even have Dark Bargain to soak things anymore! Everyone has a baseline interrupt but locks, hooray class fantasy!

[Violetti]

That's not true at all, the two are not mutually exclusive. Especially with the existence of malefic grasp or even soul effigy.

MoP alone disproves this notion, where aff was our strongest ST spec and multi-dot spec. It all comes down to how the specs designed.

Its more of a designchoice by blizzard, if we'd go back to mopdesign everyone would play the same spec again, because 1 is simply the best. just like 95% played aff in MV/HoF/ToS, demo in ToT and destro in SoO until aff simply outscaled it by killtime and gear(-upgrades)

Which is fine, except the game also has in it classes that are exempt from the "performance tax"

Melees are a problem right now, but there is no rangedspec not getting taxed, even fire mage that was called blizz fav. is getting taxed af

I'd be willing to bet that the warriors and demon hunters have Draught of Souls, which is ridiculously powerful, especially for warriors, where it is up to 15% of their damage.

DoS is overrated, very powerful but its not as good as skada implies.

[Baconeggcheese]

Its more of a designchoice by blizzard, if we'd go back to mopdesign everyone would play the same spec again, because 1 is simply the best. just like 95% played aff in MV/HoF/ToS, demo in ToT and destro in SoO until aff simply outscaled it by killtime and gear(-upgrades)

It was more aff t14(with demo for 1 fight), mostly destro in t15(I didn't get uvls until we were already working on lei shen), and a mix of aff and destro in t16 for me.

But yeah, point being that you can design a spec to be whatever you want it to be. There's nothing stopping a spec from having solid ST and multi-dot if they wanted it that way.