Deceased US Navy Seal's Father Refuses to meet Trump

[Darkeon]

Thanks Trump. Now we have soldiers dying on war and all. Geez, first the soldiers, wonder whos next!

[Daelak]

It appears that the deceased's father directly blames Trump for the loss of his son's life due to bad decision making.

Father of US commando killed in Yemen refused to meet Trump
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39099680

It was a bad decision, Trump is too narcissistic to believe he could ever make a mistake.

[Somewhatconcerned]

What was the final tally in civilian deaths? I know, brown lives don't matter, they were all terrorists in training, etc. Just curious what the count was.

[Bullettime]

What was the final tally in civilian deaths? I know, brown lives don't matter, they were all terrorists in training, etc. Just curious what the count was.

Last I read it was 24 total deaths of non Americans. 9 men, 6 women, and 9 children, most of which were civilians but the exact I don't recall being mentioned, along with the 1 SEAL death and multiple others (both SEALs and Yemenis) injured.

[Netherspark]

Any proof of this? From the sound of the articles the operation was scheduled before Trump took office, his only involvement appears to have been not canceling it.

The mission was placed on hold due to lack of intelligence, unacceptable risk and the possibility of civilian casualties.

Then Trump came along and against all advice ordered it to go ahead.

What was the final tally in civilian deaths? I know, brown lives don't matter, they were all terrorists in training, etc. Just curious what the count was.

16 I believe, mostly women and children. It also includes an eight year old girl who happened to be an American citizen.

[Somewhatconcerned]

As far as the father goes, let him grieve, be angry, anything he wants.

[caervek]

Random thought here.

A lot of people seem to be blaming Trump for what happened and labeling it a mistake, but does anyone think Hillary would have done anything different?

Having witnessed her husband (then president) choose to abort a strike that would have killed Bin Laden because the would have been a couple dozen civilian casualties (a choice which in hindsight I'm sure he would take back in a heartbeat) I would have expected her to be even more likely to order the attack.

[Daelak]

Random thought here.

A lot of people seem to be blaming Trump for what happened and labeling it a mistake, but does anyone think Hillary would have done anything different?

Having witnessed her husband (then president) choose to abort a strike that would have killed Bin Laden because the would have been a couple dozen civilian casualties (a choice which in hindsight I'm sure he would take back in a heartbeat) I would have expected her to be even more likely to order the attack.

Yeah, she would of deferred from using US special forces in a direct strike; instead of using the more manageable option of using drones and local rebel forces.

[caervek]

The mission was placed on hold due to lack of intelligence, unacceptable risk and the possibility of civilian casualties.

Then Trump came along and against all advice ordered it to go ahead.

I don't mean to be rude but you're just repeating what the last guy said, without offering any links or anything to back it up.

I'm perfectly willing to believe that's what happened, but when you have news articles saying stuff like this:

The Navy SEAL mission was only the second ground operation in Yemen acknowledged by the United States in the past two years. It was planned under President Barack Obama, who left it for his successor to execute.

Then you can understand why I'm not willing to disbelieve whats being reported just because people on forums have differing opinions.

[Yvaelle]

or it wasnt finished getting planned or the targets wernt in place at the time, it just says started it doesnt say they passed.

No, Obama's DOD national security advisor (the guy who would be informing the president about this particular op) says it had zero preparation under Obama, they knew there was a stronghold there, that was about it. They hadn't planned the op under Obama, they didn't have the layout. Because it involved putting boots on the ground in Yemen, and represented US escalation into Yemen.

The only decision Obama made regarding this raid was that, given he was only POTUS for another month - and given it may lead to a US war in a new country, it wasn't his (Obama's) decision to make because it would commit the next administration. It came up briefly around Christmas, during an intelligence meeting, Obama said they could dismiss it on the fact that it was in Yemen alone (political landmine) - and no further work was done on it.

[Kiri]

Random joes jimmies being rustled over high officials decisions is not a basis for independent investigation of military operation.

It's quite clear that this father is just mourning-the-wrong-way about loss of his son, he is not here for the money or anything like that.

What? Militant is someone involved in military combat, seals are involved in military combat and are, basically, militants. They wear combat armour, they wear weaponry, they use it to shoot other people, they use various military equipment - they are militants.

No, he can, he has these advisers and planners here in the first place so he won't go into details about this stuff. It's literally their job to provide a TL;DR to president so he can decide if its worth or not doing. The sole reason these people exist in the government apparatus is because of that. And they failed at doing their job.

But yeah, nothing wrong with criticism, but currently it's just blame, not criticism. It's just like LoL players who think that "omg you fucking scrub ltp noob" being criticism. President did, basically, what president does, listen to his advisers, and make a decision.
I by no means try to shift the blame, but you have to understand how these things work - president is not supposed to spend two weeks researching these plans and make a conclusion - he has other people do it for him, that's just how things work. It was his decision to believe people who were trusted to do their job well, and he failed.

It wasn't just the random Joe though. Three separate investigations on this are underway right now. Just because that random Joe also asks for it, doesn't mean that there are not professionals tackling it. Also there is no mourning the wrong way, anger and blaming people is an accepted stage of grief o.o

militant
ADJECTIVE
Combative and aggressive in support of a political or social cause, and typically favoring extreme, violent, or confrontational methods.
‘a militant nationalist’
More example sentencesSynonyms
NOUN
A militant person.

I am not a native English speaker, so even if that meaning you use exists, I do not know of it. Never heard militant used in any other context than the one defined above.

Regarding advisers, yeah, I agree that he needs the information condensed. But, and that is a big but - he did take credit for any successes during that mission, namely the gathered intelligence etc. We know too little about the contents of that briefing, for good reason, of course, to judge whether his decision was a bad one or a good one on that basis. All we have is the outcome. And if the commander in chief takes responsibility for the successful results of his decision, he also stands to be criticized for the negative ones.
The father of the seal criticizes things, he does not just blame. He asks why such a risky operation had to be ordered so early into an administration that still had to adjust to things, when there had been years without ground operations in Yemen.
And he felt that the administration wanted to dodge the investigation by saying that one would 'dishonour' the dead seal.
Of course there are emotions and blame there too, but those are things that one can criticize, not comparable to your lol example.

[Nathreim]

So because the mission got compromised its somehow Trumps fault? The SEALS knew the terrorists were aware of the mission and had the choice to abort they decided to go ahead KNOWING they would face stiff resistance.

The comments that the mission was somehow rushed is nonsense they had been planning it for months under Obama and he nearly green lit the mission himself but decided not to because of how close it was to the inauguration.

The father is just lashing out in his grief and Trump is an easy target.

"No battle plan ever survives contact with the enemy." Helmuth von Moltke

[Daelak]

So because the mission got compromised its somehow Trumps fault? The SEALS knew the terrorists were aware of the mission and had the choice to abort they decided to go ahead KNOWING they would face stiff resistance.

The comments that the mission was somehow rushed is nonsense they had been planning it for months under Obama and he nearly green lit the mission himself but decided not to because of how close it was to the inauguration.

The father is just lashing out in his grief and Trump is an easy target.

"No battle plan ever survives contact with the enemy." Helmuth von Moltke

But it wasn't up to the SEALs to commute the mission, it was the president. This is exactly the reason why we haven't had direct strikes with US special forces in Yemen, we have historically relied on local rebel forces and drones.

[alexw]

So, chances are, that Obamas administration weighted destabilization in region more than Trumps and that's why the mission was launched, not because they were afraid of losing soldiers?

So you decide to utterly ignore everything I said because it doesn't fit your Cheeto God worship. Way to go you.

[Charge me Doctor]

snip

Are you serious right now?
adjective
1.
vigorously active and aggressive, especially in support of a cause:
militant reformers.
2.
engaged in warfare; fighting.
noun
3.
a militant person.
4.
a person engaged in warfare or combat.
We are down to copypasting dictionaries at each other now?

And to address your other points - we don't know and won't know. Ever. They do stuff based on information that isn't available for us, and now, after stuff happened, they can lie all they want to us and we will eat it, because we have no way to disprove it without whistle blowers

[TITAN308]

Not going to be popular opinion, but...

The father is probably in some sort of state of delusional grief.

War roulette engaged and landed on his son. I'm not exactly sure why the father thought his son was immune to the wheel of fate.

I would even go as far as to say he is dishonoring the memory of his son. He died a warriors death and if the son was around to say something he would probably say he wouldn't have it any other way. You don't join the SEALs because you are just a passerby in the military like some soldiers.

These guys are the tip of the fucking spear.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Waiting for him to show his true colors and attack the father on Twitter. It wouldn't surprise me even one bit.

[Bullettime]

So because the mission got compromised its somehow Trumps fault? The SEALS knew the terrorists were aware of the mission and had the choice to abort they decided to go ahead KNOWING they would face stiff resistance.

The comments that the mission was somehow rushed is nonsense they had been planning it for months under Obama and he nearly green lit the mission himself but decided not to because of how close it was to the inauguration.

The father is just lashing out in his grief and Trump is an easy target.

"No battle plan ever survives contact with the enemy." Helmuth von Moltke

There was only rough intelligence and groundwork prepared. All we really knew is there was a stronghold and Obama started putting a few pieces in play, both militarily and politically, to lay the framework for possible dealing with it and to gather more intelligence. But they didn't have enough intelligence to safely go through with any raid so it was deferred to the next administration.

Trump wanted his Bin Laden moment and rushed the job, killing a bunch of civilians, an American citizen and 8 year old girl, and not getting the target while heavily damaging our relationship with Yemen, a political landmine of its own. It also wasn't up to the SEALs to just abort. Trump authorized it then wasn't even in the fucking situation room to deal with it.

- - - Updated - - -

Not going to be popular opinion, but...

The father is probably in some sort of state of delusional grief.

War roulette engaged and landed on his son. I'm not exactly sure why the father thought his son was immune to the wheel of fate.

I would even go as far as to say he is dishonoring the memory of his son. He died a warriors death and if the son was around to say something he would probably say he wouldn't have it any other way. You don't join the SEALs because you are just a passerby in the military like some soldiers.

These guys are the tip of the fucking spear.

The uproar over Benghazi and the fact that the raid was ordered with low intelligence.

[TZucchini]

As cruel as this sounds, his son knew what he was getting into when he signed up for the job. We all do.
With that said his father, should not use his son's death as a political statement, no parent should.

The parents will do what they do. They're grieving. Newspapers will want to interview them. And they'll say what they feel.

It's absolutely disgusting when political parties condone and exploit the behavior though. Such as the RNC and Patricia Smith. Absolutely disgusting.

[Xirrohon]

I dont like this political stance the Father is taking. All of the planning and decision making was made while Obama was in office. This wasnt some off the cuff thing to do. Plus, this kid was Navy Seal, it comes with the territory.

Also, the Navy is conducting and investigation and have been, so all of this outcry of I want an investigation is for nothing but to make a political statement. Its disgusting.