Legion is a Pointless Grind?

[Deleted]

About the 'pointless' grind, nothing is pointless as long as you enjoy it. If you hate the grind that a game has to offer you to become better at a game you haven chosen to play, just quit. Would rather have a 1.000.000 player base who all enjoy the game and are fun to run content with together than 5.000.000 player base where 75% are flaming in tradechat/forums about how 'bad' the game is. Because those people just take the pleasure away from players that do love to play the game.

[Winfernal]

WoW has been a "pointless" grind from the start. Making a point out of the grind is up to the player himself and it is subjective.
There must always be something to grind, that has been the philosophy since the very beginning.

Gold, reputation, daily quests, badges, marks, professions, points, gear, etc. In some way or another, the grind has always been real. It's just much more apparent now in Legion.

I do think both the legendary system and AP system needs adjustments, and i see Blizz has acknowledged that as well. But all in all, Legion is my favourite expansion after TBC so far (and TBC was grindy as hell).

[Kantoro]

It has always been this way, all games are grinds.

The player has changed from a Gamer to a whiny, instant gratification self entitled wanker. The gaming companies tried to evolve gaming from a long term goal oriented activity to a nownowmememe type activity and it has absolutely destroyed gaming now that people want everything RIGHT NOW.

[Matthias]

WoW has been a "pointless" grind from the start. Making a point out of the grind is up to the player himself and it is subjective.
There must always be something to grind, that has been the philosophy since the very beginning.

Gold, reputation, daily quests, badges, marks, professions, points, gear, etc. In some way or another, the grind has always been real. It's just much more apparent now in Legion.

I do think both the legendary system and AP system needs adjustments, and i see Blizz has acknowledged that as well. But all in all, Legion is my favourite expansion after TBC so far (and TBC was grindy as hell).

I wouldn't put Legion over WoTLK simply because Wrath still had server communities in tact. But in terms of never running out of things to do I my main, I haven't been this addicted since TBC. TBC is the expansion where I did the least PvP. Legion so far is the xpac I've done the 2nd least, since there is so much PvE stuff to keep me busy.

[FelPlague]

The game has always been a huge pointless grind fest...

[Heathy]

news just in stacking numbers is inherently boring, when you think about it too much.

unfortunately most games are number stacks. this game has been a number stack since the beginning.

get gear that lets you do bigger numbers so you can kill a boss that drops gear so you can do even biggererer numbers. so you can go on to kill and even harder boss that does the biggerererererist numbers.

try not to think of all games as number stacking, it just diminishes the overall enjoyment. if your obsessing over this you've burnt yourself out.

[Deleted]

it's only pointless if you don't enjoy the process and/or don't have a reason for doing it.

[Deleted]

Comparing Legion to Wrath as far as how much you need to grind is pretty hilarious. Good try though.

The infinite grind has always been there. But just more and more players have become to realise this over the past years. Most of the players that played vanilla/tbc & Wotlk just didn't realise that this was in the game because they never came to this point.

[Winfernal]

I wouldn't put Legion over WoTLK simply because Wrath still had server communities in tact. But in terms of never running out of things to do I my main, I haven't been this addicted since TBC. TBC is the expansion where I did the least PvP. Legion so far is the xpac I've done the 2nd least, since there is so much PvE stuff to keep me busy.

WOTLK introduced the LFG system though, so there's a blow to the server community.

[IceMan1763]

The infinite grind has always been there. But just more and more players have become to realise this over the past years. Most of the players that played vanilla/tbc & Wotlk just didn't realise that this was in the game because they never came to this point.

Um, just no. There is OBJECTIVELY and MEASURABLY far more grind in Legion compared to Wrath.

[Matthias]

WOTLK introduced the LFG system though, so there's a blow to the server community.

LFG came in a later patch though. Sadly Blizz should have seen the writing on the walls there. The game started to feel like a Dungeon Crawler late Wrath as opposed to an MMO, Cata with Xrealm and LFR was nearly a deathblow.

The Group Finder system introduced in WoD now heavily used in Legion (since there is content) is good damage control at least. Needing to actively find a group instead of just joining queue is far better.

[Deleted]

Its excessive RNG that kills it, not grind itself. RNG on drops always existed in WoW, but there was just that - RNG on drops. Now we have RNG on drops with additional RNG on item quality and additional completely RNG legendary system that players have no control over.

Another issue is mythic+. I hate go-go-go games. WoW wasn't like that first few years, it was about strategy, organizing people and some minor grinds. It was not fast paced. Game mechanics prevented players from rushing. Now its all about rushing, entire game is one infinite end game (everything below end game is irrelevant and destroyed) race doing same content over and over and over and over and faster and faster and duller and duller. It is not MMORPG, its arcade.

[iamthedevil]

Has this game not always been a pointless grind? Is that not every game?

[Deleted]

Has this game not always been a pointless grind? Is that not every game?

It was. But there was a clear goal to work towards with a bit of RNG. Now there is nothing to work towards because everything is RNG.

And there is more than ever content recycling going on. In old days players did something like 20-30 runs of same instance over life span of expansion, usually even less than that. Not because there was more content, but because game had completely different pace. Now its norm for just few weeks on multiple difficulties, for dungeons its even with timer.

[Winfernal]

It was. But there was a clear goal to work towards with a bit of RNG. Now there is nothing to work towards because everything is RNG.

And there is more than ever content recycling going on. In old days players did something like 20-30 runs of same instance over life span of expansion, usually even less than that. Not because there was more content, but because game had completely different pace. Now its norm for just few weeks on multiple difficulties, for dungeons its even with timer.

Never has 5 man content got this much attention, and it is fantastic. It has always been trivialized in favor of raiding, now it's challenging. I never get tired of it with the different affixes, keystone levels and timers.

And 20-30 runs? Not if you were farming for HoJ in BRD for example, lol! False.
Only now almost every run feels different to the other.

[BananaHandsB]

I'm trying to come to terms with all of the whining I'm hearing about Legion. People always bring up Legendary items, which is a totally valid complaint. But when people say it's too grindy with RNG on top of RNG, I just get baffled. I mean are 70% of the MMO-Champ players Mythic Raiders? Otherwise I don't see what's there to complain about.

After I do my Heroic Raiding, I just get my 15 done for the weekly chest, after that I don't feel compelled to log in anymore at all. I have no desire to grind for 54 trait (Paragon trait is stupid imo) and I'll wait for it to come naturally. However if I would like to, I can run NH Normal, or Heroic EN, Kara, M+ etc to fish for Titanforge gear or Legendary items, all while collecting AP. But since I'm relying on RNG entirely for a minute chance at an upgrade I don't feel compelled to do it. I'll do so if I'm bored, if friends need help.

Saying it's pointless....I mean all this gear is going to be replaced the next expansion anyway right? We wanted 5 man content to be remain relevant and people here whine "Doing the same content over and over isn't fun!?" Have we been playing the same game all of these years? I can only assume that so many people must have started playing the game in Cata when LFR essentially replaced Dungeons. However in Vanilla, TBC and WoTLK you ran the same Dungeons throughout the entire expansion.

Finally people need to come to terms that you can't just "finish" a character for given tier. Your ilvl will reflect the current level of content you run however. No need to ram your head against the wall looking for "BiS". If your not raiding Mythic, I don't see where the whining comes from.

Mind you I don't think it would hurt for Blizz to just add in some gear vendors. But seeing as how they've yet to address it, the RNG system seems to be working as a retention tactic.

Now imagine you have yet to receive a non-utility legendary. Keep on grinding for little to no reward, while everyone and their mom lands at least 1 decent legendary in a fraction of the time!

[Not A Cat]

Did this really need its own thread? You didn't want to post this in the plethora of "Legion is good/bad" threads that already exist?

[SoulSoBreezy]

Here is once again, my video essay on self-control.
Just kidding.

It was said already, but what sort of fulfillment do you expect in an MMO? An ending?

[Deleted]

Yes. I stopped playing in November and its just a stupid grind that is not fun. Grinding AP is the most boring thing I can think of.

[IceMan1763]

Yes. I stopped playing in November and its just a stupid grind that is not fun. Grinding AP is the most boring thing I can think of.

You should apply for a job as a dev... you're the perfect candidate since you don't play the game and are great at thinking up boring as hell grinds.

Bonus points if you play WOW (I mean used to) on a tablet.