Heroes Of The Storm Balance Update — February 27, 2017

[Nerraw]

http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/blog/...2017-2-27-2017

[NoiseTank13]

Unexpected and unwarranted Tychus nerfs. If you thought the Warrior meta was annoying then have the lulz.

Parking fine nerfs for Murky and some bug fixes.

[Nikkaszal]

Awwww yeah suck it, Warbringer

Back to playing Tracer I go!

[RH92]

I guess Tychus is no longer the best ranged Assassin in general. Right now his only weakness is lack of consistent poke damage, but he has a good survivability thanks to his mobility, defenses and high health pool while still dishing out solid damage.

Malfurion is slightly less broken while I still think he has way too much utility in his talents (Scouting Drones + Ice Block) considering how much utility he already has in his basic kit.

Varian solo tank is most likely dead and both of his Assassin builds are pretty much a helping hand for enemy team now. Honestly, I don't like this change. It was such a nice change to see less priority on E.T.C. and Muradin. Diablo, Johanna and Tyrael are still very viable, but are either niche or have evident weakness. I agree it needed a nerf, but why not just make it a root? During root you can still use your abilities, you are just unable to use any movement skills.

Tassadar is finally fixed, rejoice! With changes to Tychus, I think this will shake the meta a lot when it comes to many AA based ranged Assassins. I actually think Heroes like Valla, Tracer and even Illidan might see buffs in their survivability later on as they feel dependent on Shields to cover their risky positioning. Unlike Mages who can play push and pull because they are reliant on their cooldowns and don't need to stay on the edge of danger for too long.

[Rothg]

Do y'all still feel like Tychus is still
the go to Assassin against double warrior teams?

[Nikkaszal]

Do y'all still feel like Tychus is still
the go to Assassin against double warrior teams?

Yeah that's meant to be his main strength - as mentioned in the dev comments, he was just too good at being anti-EVERYTHING instead of the go-to tankbuster

[Rothg]

Yeah that's meant to be his main strength - as mentioned in the dev comments, he was just too good at being anti-EVERYTHING instead of the go-to tankbuster

Awesome. I'm only low platinum so obviously not playing with professionals, but I've only ever picked/seen him picked against double tank comps. Just needed to make sure I didn't have to alter my draft picks

[DesoPL]

GOOD RIDDIANCE MURKY! GOOD RIDDIANCE!

Bah i don't mind Malfurion nerf, he is still playable.

[Kjalar]

I actually like the Varian changes. His DPS specs are fun, but they were so heavily overshadowed by the Prot spec that people would automatically expect every Varian to go Prot and would get pissed if Varian decided to play a different spec. This should change now.

[Well]

Finally, go to hell tank Varian. Charge->Stun->Taunt->Q->Heroic Strike-> 50% off of a squishy alone. Fuck off, really. It was fucking terrible.

[ophion1990]

Varian solo tank is most likely dead and both of his Assassin builds are pretty much a helping hand for enemy team now. Honestly, I don't like this change. It was such a nice change to see less priority on E.T.C. and Muradin. Diablo, Johanna and Tyrael are still very viable, but are either niche or have evident weakness. I agree it needed a nerf, but why not just make it a root? During root you can still use your abilities, you are just unable to use any movement skills.

I agree. Varian is kinda shit pre level 10, warbringer heavily aided that. Instead they buff his ults even further so he has more reliance on them than ever. :/ Adding the root to his Q could have been nice aswell since it's a skillshot instead of just a point/click. That' make it similar to Thralls W though. One thing is for sure, his stun/taunt combo had to go.



Only other "questionable" change is probably Tychus' range. Though he has much better tools at his disposal now than he did in the past, when he had the same low range, so I don't think it'll hit him all that hard. Just makes him better against double tank comps, as is intended.

[caervek]

Pfft, this setback won't stop the big kahuna tuna!

[Nerraw]

Varian solo tank is most likely dead and both of his Assassin builds are pretty much a helping hand for enemy team now. Honestly, I don't like this change. It was such a nice change to see less priority on E.T.C. and Muradin. Diablo, Johanna and Tyrael are still very viable, but are either niche or have evident weakness. I agree it needed a nerf, but why not just make it a root? During root you can still use your abilities, you are just unable to use any movement skills.

Chen once had an actual root on his super slow kick talent, but due to unfortunate interactions with other heroes they just made it a massive slow instead. More or less the same result, but stuff didn't break. I'm guessing that's what they're going for with this as well.

[Deleted]

Well, I was watching a lot of HGC matches and almost every one of them have Tychus in the lineup. I seriously believe that he was overpowered, and thus, a staple in the meta. But, with the said nerfs, I wonder if competitive teams will still choose him.

[RH92]

I agree. Varian is kinda shit pre level 10, warbringer heavily aided that. Instead they buff his ults even further so he has more reliance on them than ever. :/ Adding the root to his Q could have been nice aswell since it's a skillshot instead of just a point/click. That' make it similar to Thralls W though. One thing is for sure, his stun/taunt combo had to go.

Yeah, they weakened his early game even more and basically brought him back into second warrior slot.

My opinion is Warbringer was always broken talent because it gave reduced cooldown and stun. If they would just reduce Charge cooldown baseline and Warbringer would be giving stun (or root) while also increasing cooldown a bit, it would be fine. Right now I think they need to increase range on Taunt so you can use it without hugging your enemy.

I am just super frustrated with changes like those when few patches ago they increased duration of Taunt and it made him worth picking as main tank. Yes, they reworked Warbringer and Charge cooldown interaction a few times already, but his CC chain is basically worse than it was on launch.

I also don't understand the frustration of people being CCed. Across all games I participated in PvP I always enjoyed focus on CC chain, it rewards coordination and player ability to time their abilities. Removing CC always puts emphasis on two extremes, either way too big burst damage or just long tiring brawls and I don't really think any of those extremes is fun. If enemy team can CC chain me for 5 seconds and kill me inside that window, good job by them for catching me out of position and ability to chain their CCs. CC windows also give time for your team to peel for you because if enemy team needs a long CC chain to kill you, the damage is not very high to begin with.

Back to Varian, I think the CC chain was fine. In my opinion the problem was in his utility, he has 3 types of Flag that can also increase healing received at level 20 for entire team and Mortal Strike or Shield Breaker while also having pretty good single target damage. They could easily address his damage by simply giving Taunt a passive effect reducing his damage. However they won't ever nerf his utility since it damages other builds too. Yet at the same time, I think Varian's limited mobility made him fine even with that utility. Once you fail to kill a target in CC chain, you are very likely to die on Varian.

I just think Varian is back to being mediocre at everything.

Chen once had an actual root on his super slow kick talent, but due to unfortunate interactions with other heroes they just made it a massive slow instead. More or less the same result, but stuff didn't break. I'm guessing that's what they're going for with this as well.

I think a major difference between 90% slow on Flying Kick and Charge just being slow is Chen is actually jumping over the target, body blocking it.

[Nerraw]

I think a major difference between 90% slow on Flying Kick and Charge just being slow is Chen is actually jumping over the target, body blocking it.

When it was a root, it had unintended side effects regarding channeled movement-based abilities. I'm pretty sure Sonya was impacted by it in some fashion. I can't remember for certain, it's been two years or something since they made the change.

[Dizzeeyooo]

I also don't understand the frustration of people being CCed. Across all games I participated in PvP I always enjoyed focus on CC chain, it rewards coordination and player ability to time their abilities. Removing CC always puts emphasis on two extremes, either way too big burst damage or just long tiring brawls and I don't really think any of those extremes is fun. If enemy team can CC chain me for 5 seconds and kill me inside that window, good job by them for catching me out of position and ability to chain their CCs. CC windows also give time for your team to peel for you because if enemy team needs a long CC chain to kill you, the damage is not very high to begin with

Varian completely shutting down mobility based heroes like illidan/tracer/zeratul just by pressing two buttons every 8/16 seconds was broken in a game where only certain healers can talent cleanse and cleanse generally has a 60 second cooldown

methods for fixing him were to either make the point and click stun a skillshot, or keep the point and click aspect but replace the stun with something that functions effectively like a stun (hi huge % but short duration slow) but gives the target chance to actually press a button in response - they went with removing the stun

Varian will be fine, just not first pick/first ban material, which is healthy for the game overall - they should look at moving his heroic talent choices to level 7 or 4 (4 is probably too early, but anyway) so he spends less of the game as a meh half hero waiting to gain his identity, and drop the whole stupid multiclass idea already

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Well, they completely "fixed" March of the Murlocs in the wrong way. The lvl 20 upgrade to it is what needed the nerf, not the base ult. The CD ticking down while you channeled the ult is what was ridiculous.

Dunno why they nerfed Time to Krill, that talent has been shit since it was added.

[RH92]

When it was a root, it had unintended side effects regarding channeled movement-based abilities. I'm pretty sure Sonya was impacted by it in some fashion. I can't remember for certain, it's been two years or something since they made the change.

If it caused some side effect, than good change.

However my point was, Illidan's Dive and Chen's Flying Kick are more less stuns thanks to body block. With Charge I had multiple scenarios where you run to a target just to be again out of AA range.

Varian completely shutting down mobility based heroes like illidan/tracer/zeratul just by pressing two buttons every 8/16 seconds was broken in a game where only certain healers can talent cleanse and cleanse generally has a 60 second cooldown

methods for fixing him were to either make the point and click stun a skillshot, or keep the point and click aspect but replace the stun with something that functions effectively like a stun (hi huge % but short duration slow) but gives the target chance to actually press a button in response - they went with removing the stun

Varian will be fine, just not first pick/first ban material, which is healthy for the game overall - they should look at moving his heroic talent choices to level 7 or 4 (4 is probably too early, but anyway) so he spends less of the game as a meh half hero waiting to gain his identity, and drop the whole stupid multiclass idea already

This is more about "Should Cleanse be baseline for all Supports?" and "Are Shields affecting balance in negative way?" topics than "CC chain destroys mobility Heroes!".

Is point and click stun strong? Yes, not denying it, but it is good to have a hard counter on Heroes so you can punish them in draft if picked early. If you have a high mobility Hero played well and you can't effectively CC it, it causes a major problem too (Tracer+Tassadar on release). You could punish enemy team for first picking Varian too by drafting strong early game team where you can snowball it hard so Varian team has difficulties combing back.

My point is, it is good to have Heroes that perform well in general and can gel into any team. However when you have a Hero that requires a specific type of play, there should be a way to counter it too. It is not like Varian was super strong against high mobility Heroes because when his team made a mistake, he has no tools to escape himself, making him weak against those Heroes in return.

[apepi]

Honestly they might as well give Murky the original bribe back. Vs. good players the new one is impossible to get stacks, vs. Shitty players it is still OP, therr is no winning here.

I don't see why they nerfed regen bubble....