Is Nighthold too easy on melee dps?

[Deleted]

It was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, but to be fair, you can't kill a boss without sufficient damage, and the bit about melee having to deal with tank mechanics still stands.

I haven't played in a while, but in my experience, a lot of mechanics that are designed to be handled by ranged can be assigned to a small handful of people. In a ranged-heavy group, it's not out of the question for some ranged to tunnel.



Short-ranged AoE is a thing. There are also fights like Will of the Emperor where the bosses spend half of the fight cleaving.

So you had to go back two full expansions to the first tier of that expansion to find a boss that was unfavourable to melee, except it wasn't because they got a damage boost from dancing correctly and could still maintain their full dps rotation while dancing.

[Deleted]

There's this boss in Nighthold. Called Star augur, can be considered the first actually tricky boss on Mythic difficulty. I personally find this one of the better bosses in the instance. If you had to guess a reason, what would it be? And be serious.

Because it comes down to each person (no matter if they are ranged or melee) and if one person does fail it wipes the entire raid making it mandatory that everyone is up for the task

[Deleted]

Because it comes down to each person (no matter if they are ranged or melee) and if one person does fail it wipes the entire raid making it mandatory that everyone is up for the task

Thank you.

[skindown]

many mechanics in nighthold are designed that they are completed faster by ranges. For example lashers on Botanist. Ranges can attack them as soon as they spawn and if a melee is fixated you don't want to get close in range to them.
Or eating cakes on trilliax. Ranges are often closer to the cakes, because they are further away from Trilliax.
Stuff like that.

Nighthold is designed so that the vast majority of mechanics are best dealt with by ranges.

Precisely my point

To get the best efficiency out of the raid's DPS, you should put the best people suited to do each job, don't you agree?

[Deleted]

Precisely my point

To get the best efficiency out of the raid's DPS, you should put the best people suited to do each job, don't you agree?

depending if you mean people or class. Because the best Shadow Priest, Balance Druide, Destruction warlock, Fire Mage or Elemental Shaman in the world couldn't keep up with a shit-tier Demon Hunter or Assa Rogue on single target encounters.
So I wouldn't put my best players on single target duty if they are playing a specc/class that isn't good for it if there is other stuff they could do

[PaladinBash]

I'm just glad most bosses don't absolutely fuck my DPS as melee. Mechanics are for healers and ranged to worry about.

[skindown]

depending if you mean people or class. Because the best Shadow Priest, Balance Druide, Destruction warlock, Fire Mage or Elemental Shaman in the world couldn't keep up with a shit-tier Demon Hunter or Assa Rogue on single target encounters.
So I wouldn't put my best players on single target duty if they are playing a specc/class that isn't good for it if there is other stuff they could do

And how many encounters out of the 10 are "single target"?

[Nnyco]

In general melee players are, in terms of maturity, patience and skill, inferior to their range counterparts.

ha good joke, its usually the mages warlocks and hunters that are immature but okay

[JoshuaNLG]

I'm just glad most bosses don't absolutely fuck my DPS as melee. Mechanics are for healers and ranged to worry about.

So basically.. "So long as i can mongo down a raid boss and not have to worry about mechanics i'm fine!"

With that attitude you'd get the same satisfaction from beating on a target dummy for 7+ minutes.

[Bradders]

I'm done, someone who's entire argument is "I'm right because of my subjective bias" is not worth trying to convince of anything.

[Fat Mac]

yeah and that is a good thing. Atleast for progress and peace of mind.

In general melee players are, in terms of maturity, patience and skill, inferior to their range counterparts.

It is a bit on the extreme side in LEGION and especially Nighthold that ranges have to do all the work while melees are tunneling the boss, but that is only logical considering how easy it is to perform well as a melee, to churn out good dps compared to range players.

Some bosses are a bit too much like Gul'Dan, mythic trilliax and a few others where it basically comes down to : "melee players you can hurr durr the boss while the range players master all the mechanics and make sure we don't wipe on the boss".
Sadly on some bosses like Botanist it happens too often that melee players are getting hit by the lashers while they are drooling on their keyboard, but thankfully Blizzard realized that with LEGION and the introduction of a new melee class, the Demon Hunter, that a very big majority of the "noobs" are ultimately drawn to that new shiny immature "I am so cool I am illidan" class that they made sure the biggest parts of the difficulties that raiding holds are best left for the range players.

Overall I think Blizzard did a good job. Sure it is annoying as a range player to carry those guys, but I would rather have it the way it currently is compared to a world where we need to rely on melees playing properly.
I for one am happy that Blizzard, and also raidleaders, are letting the melees do what they do best. Tunneling the boss and delight themselves over the damage meters where they always take the top spots for reasons beyond their comprehensive abilities.

im assuming you could not play melee even remotely well even if you were snorting Aderall all day.

also these legion mechanics are a joke. i dont care what role you play, its not the class its the player

[Deleted]

And how many encounters out of the 10 are "single target"?

That depends on difficulty and how your raid does look at things.
Most fights are predominantly single target where having single target damage is the most important.
Other fights have priority add damage components where slow ramp up classes are pretty bad. Making bursty melees even more valuable.

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ha good joke, its usually the mages warlocks and hunters that are immature but okay

no, you are the immature one ! mirror ! ha!

[Doffen]

I dont think most people here know how far 100 yards is. Some people in this thread is really using that amount of range(wich is false) to justify not doing mechanics

On topic: Yes its meleefriendly so far in Legion. Its all dandy tho, but when I am on my melee alt life is just easier compared to my ranged main

[Deleted]

im assuming you could not play melee even remotely well even if you were snorting Aderall all day.

also these legion mechanics are a joke. i dont care what role you play, its not the class its the player

come on, really?

why are people so hostile and insulting me directly. I never insulated anyone directly. I just said melees on average are worse players and I didn't single out people. I was even so nice to say people on mmo-c are probably above average players.

man this really hurts. I have feelings too you know?

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I dont think most people here know how far 100 yards is. Some people in this thread is really using that amount of range(wich is false) to justify not doing mechanics

On topic: Yes its meleefriendly so far in Legion. Its all dandy tho, but when I am on my melee alt life is just easier compared to my ranged main

true dat. on my warrior alt life is good and easy. I was overpowered with Arms in EN and now I am overpowered with Fury in NH. Super mobile and great damage. Not bothering with mechanics much because I know the lovely range players have my back

[Charge me Doctor]

Raiding as melee always was easier

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So you can see it two ways.

1/ Melees don't have to deal with mechanics

2/ Melees CAN'T effectively deal with mechanics without going pretty much afk.

Take shit like Aluriel's frost brand, Guldan's soaks, Krosus soaks (the far ones), 80% of the cakes in the room on trilliax, Elisande's soak, Botanist night eclipse or w/e the name.
Melees can't / shouldn't handle those, because if they do they're fucking dead weight while they do it

If no one does mechanics you just die, wipe and try again. Saying "well i don't have enough mobility and i would lose, like, 1 mil of damage, duh" is not an excuse to ignore mechanics. Most melee have enough mobility to deal with this shit, and raid utility like warlocks gates do help a lot

[Deleted]

Raiding as melee always was easier

I have to disagree there. Melees have had some difficulties to deal with in the past, especially if you only wanted to have a small amount of melees in your raids and favouring range players.

But LEGION most definitively is the most melee friendly addon by far and melees are basically overpowered everywhere. Be it in the damage rankings, m+, mobility, interrupt, cc, immunity, pvp or pve world. it's a great addon to be a melee.

[Risale]

After several expansions of melee getting the shaft by being forced to sit in favour of ranged I am rather happy that NH is now so melee friendly it is a change of pace.
Now I have been both ranged and melee so I know both sides but any ranged crying over melee getting actual rankings for a raid should look at previous raids and expansions and count their blessings.
And just as a reminder just have a look at the Mythic & Heroic logs for NH most fights are still owned by a wide margin by ranged the only difference this time is that you are now forced to share that ranking list with some melee.

[Fat Mac]

come on, really?

why are people so hostile and insulting me directly. I never insulated anyone directly. I just said melees on average are worse players and I didn't single out people. I was even so nice to say people on mmo-c are probably above average players.

man this really hurts. I have feelings too you know?

i take all insults at melee as a personal attack on me. its how i am. i cant change me. sorry

[Charge me Doctor]

So you had to go back two full expansions to the first tier of that expansion to find a boss that was unfavourable to melee, except it wasn't because they got a damage boost from dancing correctly and could still maintain their full dps rotation while dancing.

This is huge advantage of melee over ranged tho, being able to keep your rotation while dodging mechanics. In case of feral/balance druid it's even more ridiculous, a blink, base MS speed, MS boost, raidwide MS boost, ridiculous attack range, ability to pool resource...

[Deleted]

A common misconception is being perpetuated in this thread: that life as melee before Nighthold/Legion was always shit in raids. Well, people clearly didn´t raid in WotLK, second half of Cata, the whole of MoP and most of WoD then.