Is Nighthold too easy on melee dps?

[Charge me Doctor]

I have to disagree there. Melees have had some difficulties to deal with in the past, especially if you only wanted to have a small amount of melees in your raids and favouring range players.

That's the case of raid management, not of melee being harder to play in raid. Off course if you stuck 10 melee behind the boss you'll have problems on an encounter, that's not even the case here.

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i take all insults at melee as a personal attack on me. its how i am. i cant change me. sorry

I take all "a" in people posts as personal attack on me. Reported.

[Fat Mac]

But LEGION most definitively is the most melee friendly addon by far and melees are basically overpowered everywhere. Be it in the damage rankings, m+, mobility, interrupt, cc, immunity, pvp or pve world. it's a great addon to be a melee.

they added a melee class with a dbl jump and fucking wings!! of course blizz had to tone it down some forseeing the mass influx of r̶a̶n̶g̶e̶d̶ ̶p̶l̶a̶y̶e̶r̶s̶ newbies trying them out

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I take all "a" in people posts as personal attack on me. Reported.

if i offended you, i'm truly sorry my friend....


a

[Jastall]

It probably is.

But since it's the first melee-friendly raid in forever, I'll take it.

[precious]

[QUOTE=nailbomb;44763413]they added a melee class with a dbl jump and fucking wings!! of course blizz had to tone it down some forseeing the mass influx of r̶a̶n̶g̶e̶d̶ ̶p̶l̶a̶y̶e̶r̶s̶ newbies trying them out

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1.61 million melee parses vs 1.73 million ranged parses in nighthold hc as the first month of the raid
603k melee parses vs 3.03 million parses as range on hc the first month of brh

[Joryy]

Complaining about who's life is harder is a bit silly. Obviously nighthold is a target dummy for melee, but that isn't the problem. Raiding should be more dynamic gameplay for them too, but that isn't the problem.

The problem is fights like Elisande. You just need a bunch of ranged for her on mythic, to do the kicks and kill the immobile blue adds. On mythic, it damn near requires 5 (hunter + mage), because moonkins, warlocks and shadow are kick-retarded, and shaman kick is shorter range. Plus the immunities on orbs + blast.

Wow's history is full of Elisandes, it is why melee have had a bad reputation and have therefore 'deserved' to be tuned higher.

Then of course, we get to Gul'dan and the 10% overtuning means that half our ranged mains (that Elisande demanded) are playing alts/benched. #SolutionsThatAreAlsoProblems

[Deleted]

After several expansions of melee getting the shaft by being forced to sit in favour of ranged I am rather happy that NH is now so melee friendly it is a change of pace.
Now I have been both ranged and melee so I know both sides but any ranged crying over melee getting actual rankings for a raid should look at previous raids and expansions and count their blessings.
And just as a reminder just have a look at the Mythic & Heroic logs for NH most fights are still owned by a wide margin by ranged the only difference this time is that you are now forced to share that ranking list with some melee.

What? It was almost exclusively melee if you ignored the out of control S2M priests. The exceptions being Xavius where some ranged had mad padding on tentacles and ilgynoth where ranged again had an easier time to pad on blobs. If you looked at heart damage on Ilgynoth melee still won though.

Nythendra for example had 9 out of the 11 top classes for damage be melee.

Ursoc was 7/10 top melee.

Renferal 5/10 melee

Cenarius was 7/10 melee.

Dragons and xavius was range dominated, but dragons you had to hold dps to not overload portals anyway, and Xavius had range padding massively.

For Ilgynoth, where the only real dps check was the inside phase, 9/10 bossdamage was melee, 12/15 top boss damage was melee.

Keep in mind I'm looking at 7.0/7.1 as that content was out of date when 7.1.5 rolled around and it's not really relevant to nighthold/current raiding discussion. Much like certain classes ability to plow mythic+ levels 2-3 at insane speeds isn't relevant.

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This is huge advantage of melee over ranged tho, being able to keep your rotation while dodging mechanics. In case of feral/balance druid it's even more ridiculous, a blink, base MS speed, MS boost, raidwide MS boost, ridiculous attack range, ability to pool resource...

True, less of an advantage for balance than feral though as if they're in catform using their speed boost they're not doing any damage.

[munkeyinorbit]

because even if theyre more friendly to melee than normal, theres still some times when they have to move for a mechanic, and its a dps loss

Unlike the times where range have to move every mechanic of every fight and most of the tools have been taken away to deal with the movement, it is not a dps loss for range. People are just stupid.

[Charge me Doctor]

True, less of an advantage for balance than feral though as if they're in catform using their speed boost they're not doing any damage.

By "feral/balance" i mean feral with balance affinity, sorry for confusion

[Deleted]

By "feral/balance" i mean feral with balance affinity, sorry for confusion

I see, thanks for the clarification.

[Sunlighthell]

Yes. Almost zero melee mechanics on mythic difficulty paired with retarded buffs all melee received after 7.1.5 (If i remember correctly only rets were nerfed because of mass hysteria, but true op shit like havok, assasination, frost and fury left untouched and some of them even got buffs, lol) Also melee trinket from Gul'dan and it interaction with some classes is not nerfed for month now, while whispers were nerfed immidiately after 7.1.5 release FOR ALL caster dps.

[Irian]

A common misconception is being perpetuated in this thread: that life as melee before Nighthold/Legion was always shit in raids. Well, people clearly didn´t raid in WotLK, second half of Cata, the whole of MoP and most of WoD then.

I think it's almost baffling that there are people in this thread that seem to believe melee have had hard times in WoW compared to ranged. Ranged has almost always been, to some degree, the role that requires more of the task-oriented duties.

I think some melee don't understand that being forced to move out of a boss's hitbox does not make a fight melee-unfriendly. If someone's a melee and think they have it really hard I would urge them to play a ranged DPS in any serious raiding situation and see how many times you're forced to sacrifice uptime and properly manage your comparatively very few mobility cooldowns just to ensure a raid's survival.

[Deleted]

This falls in line with my experience so far in Legion. Thanks for the humour also

People playing melee and afraid to lose uptime on boss... I play a shadow priest, the only thing I can do while moving is spam a dot.

Oh, How I wish melee had to optimize their movement to only take place in gcd in high mythic raiding. Hurrdurr tunnel boss while moving

Well someone have to kill the boss after all If you pick the ranged like me then you must know that have to handle with all crap who boss will throw over you
Personally i found NH extremly easy if you play DH i got nice uptime on boss and meanwhile can give a hand to fellow rangers

[Aktec]

I think one of the issues is that melee in general are just better right now, take a boss like star auger which is probably the most neutral fight given that melee get all the same mechanics as range do. Looking at the rankings(on hc at 75%) 9/12 specs in the top half are melee. So even on a mecanically fair fight its not even.

[hulkgor]

It's insane how melee-friendly Legion has been with the exception of Odyn and Helya... we actually joke about it on our guild with super hard "melee mechanics".

I understand melees have higher base dmg due to the fact that they are unable to dps away from their target, but they should have mechanics to force them away from the target, otherwise it's just absurd. A bonus for no penalty?

I main a boomkin, currently 6/10 M so nothing real fancy, but doing stuff on my melee alt just feels silly... some bosses are completely void of meaningful mechanics for them, or simply put, rangeds have to pick up the slack.

Not a direction i'm happy with, but considering every new class released was melee (dk -> monk -> dh), or even some ranged classes reworked to melee (survival), it just seems blizzard is shoving us on that direction, so, whatever can we do?

[drbatman]

any ranged class complaining about melee should roll a melee character to see that it isnt all wine and roses

[Meanshield]

That's usually the case in my experience, melee has to deal with shitty positioning and such (when the boss has cleaves/breath/centered AoE etc)
ranged actually have to do mechanics.

Must be some crap melee's you play with. I've always assisted with mechanics even if they've been super punishing. Rather have boss dead in an orderly fashion than tunnel dps.

[Mehrunes]

So you had to go back two full expansions to the first tier of that expansion to find a boss that was unfavourable to melee, except it wasn't because they got a damage boost from dancing correctly and could still maintain their full dps rotation while dancing.

A common misconception is being perpetuated in this thread: that life as melee before Nighthold/Legion was always shit in raids. Well, people clearly didn´t raid in WotLK, second half of Cata, the whole of MoP and most of WoD then.

I think it's almost baffling that there are people in this thread that seem to believe melee have had hard times in WoW compared to ranged. Ranged has almost always been, to some degree, the role that requires more of the task-oriented duties.

I think some melee don't understand that being forced to move out of a boss's hitbox does not make a fight melee-unfriendly. If someone's a melee and think they have it really hard I would urge them to play a ranged DPS in any serious raiding situation and see how many times you're forced to sacrifice uptime and properly manage your comparatively very few mobility cooldowns just to ensure a raid's survival.

But... But... Ze sky is falling? You're telling me the idea of melee oppression is horseshit?

[God-King Skovald]

Nah, it's for the best. You play melee because you don't want to do anything on the fight but tunnel.

[Deleted]

there are bosses where bringing to much melee is extremely detrimental.
there is no boss where bringing no melee is extremely detrimental.

bosses that require melee to be spread out come to mind. if you have to many melee on those, some have to afk.

[Deleted]

Nah, it's for the best. You play melee because you don't want to do anything on the fight but tunnel.

Thank you.

To my surprise me and Conflux are not alone in this as a lot of people seem to echo our views. But yes, it is for the best and Blizzard seems to agree by giving them close to nothing to deal with in NH.