Fury Legion Discussion

[Arker42]

Just thought I'd share my thoughts on Fury.

I do feel that Fury is genuinely fun to play, due to the fast-paced gameplay and the huge burst potential.

But because I'm in a complainin' kinda mood: The downside is that the spec is impossible to play without Simcraft and a calculator.

Except it's not. Fury is one of the most intuitive and uncomplicated DPS specs in the game. You can literally follow Archimtiros' guide to a T and perform at an extremely competent and effective level. Stating that it is 'impossible to play without Simcraft and a calculator' is meaningless and unconstructive hyperbole.

As for the rest of your wall of text, much of it is misguided or flat out wrong. You will want to spend some time with the 7.1.5 Fury Guide & FAQ before diving into a deep conversation here.

[Krom2040]

Except it's not. Fury is one of the most intuitive and uncomplicated DPS specs in the game. You can literally follow Archimtiros' guide to a T and perform at an extremely competent and effective level. Stating that it is 'impossible to play without Simcraft and a calculator' is meaningless and unconstructive hyperbole.

As for the rest of your wall of text, much of it is misguided or flat out wrong. You will want to spend some time with the 7.1.5 Fury Guide & FAQ before diving into a deep conversation here.

You must not have even felt it was worth reading my "wall of text" before injecting your smug nonsense. I didn't say you couldn't find a guide that would tell you how to play it. Obviously you can, as you can do with any class in the game. I argued that the mechanics aren't obvious without turning to those guides, written by people who ran the numbers. The guide in particular that you linked and that most people are already familiar with even indicates that the choices are not obvious before running SimCraft, like the Execute rotation without Massacre in particular. In fact, the points I bring up are ones that are fairly commonly accepted.

But if being an asshole on the Internet is your thing, then I certainly can't stop you.

[Vycaus]

The fact that you are complaining about nonobvious choices for cookie cutter specs without a clear cut rotation is honestly the reason you are being immediately dismissed. Your entire post screams lazy casual. Why even have talents and a fluctuating rotation when it's clear you'd rather be forced to put 0 thought into anything you're doing. It's shocking that you are complaining about a 4 button spec as if it so complicated you feel overwhelmed without simcrafts and guides. Really, that is a reflection of you, and not the class. Arker is absolutely right. It is completely intuitive and uncomplicated, and Arch's guide completely reaffirms that but outlining an obvious priority system. You don't need sims to tell you to WW on multiple targets. You don't need sims to tell you to execute. His entire guide is basically a big post about how "yes it is that simple."

Other than that, your complaints about furious slash aren't exactly ground breaking. It's designed as GCD filler that directly effects enrage uptime. I guess you don't like it because it does 0 damage and you don't like filler abilities, but you want to move the crit buff to BT so you can just ignore FS....as if that changes anything. No one is being as asshole here, but it's rather shocking that'd you come in to a thread about fury, post a bunch of rather uninformed and ranty opinions and then get immediately butt hurt when you are contradicted. Talk about being an asshole on the internet.

[TehTemplar]

Just thought I'd share my thoughts on Fury.

The only things that you are semi correct are how FS feels awful and clunky and juggernaut stacks can drop easily due to mechanics.

Making "Execute" an ability you can use above 20-30% is absolutely ridiculous and you should feel bad for even suggesting it. If its so hard for you to realize that execute hits as hard as RB at 0 stacks of Juggernaut and cant just execute if you have rage, otherwise bt or rb then either you are just a whiner or not that good at video games.

[Krom2040]

It is completely intuitive and uncomplicated, and Arch's guide completely reaffirms that but outlining an obvious priority system.

I didn't say that it was complicated, I said that it was unintuitive. Which it is. The frequency of the question about whether Execute is even a DPS gain at all is an obvious indication of this. I'm sorry that reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.

Making "Execute" an ability you can use above 20-30% is absolutely ridiculous and you should feel bad for even suggesting it.

I didn't suggest this at all. I suggested that it should be transformed into something that makes it an obvious benefit whenever Execute is usable, which it currently is not. "Hits as hard as as RB" isn't a summary of the situation at all, because unlike RB, it costs a *ton* of rage instead of *giving* you rage, which utterly complicates the math because it decimates your Enrage uptime. Hence the frequently-stated notion that the class would be improved if Massacre were made baseline.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that a lot of people playing the warrior class can't read or think. You know, class fantasy etc.

[Jastall]

Yeah, if there's one spec I found incredibly intuitive it's Fury. That's not to say there isn't more advanced play possible when it comes to managing cooldowns and the execute phase, but the basics of the spec are simple and you certainly don't need no simcraft or calculator to perform decently.

[TehTemplar]

I didn't say that it was complicated, I said that it was unintuitive. Which it is. The frequency of the question about whether Execute is even a DPS gain at all is an obvious indication of this. I'm sorry that reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.



I didn't suggest this at all. I suggested that it should be transformed into something that makes it an obvious benefit whenever Execute is usable, which it currently is not. "Hits as hard as as RB" isn't a summary of the situation at all, because unlike RB, it costs a *ton* of rage instead of *giving* you rage, which utterly complicates the math because it decimates your Enrage uptime. Hence the frequently-stated notion that the class would be improved if Massacre were made baseline.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that a lot of people playing the warrior class can't read or think. You know, class fantasy etc.

You keep saying things like "math" and insulting people but it feels like you are the one that can't do basic calculus in his head.

Yes, Execute lowers Enrage uptime, and the moment you hit 8-10 Jugg stacks, execute outdmgs an enraged raging blow and with an incoming Battle Cry that can get you 100% crit, 15% crit dmg, 15% dmg from frothing and 100 rage you can very easily figure out you need to have as high stacks as possible before that for massive burst.

But anyway, it's clear you are some wannabe superstar that think his OPINIONS are word of god and feels like insulting anyone who disagrees.

Yes, massacre should be baseline, what other *insights* that many have been stating for over half a year and every decent or better player has felt for themselves will you share with us?

[Krom2040]

but it feels like you are the one that can't do basic calculus in his head

I can't tell if this is a joke or what. The number of people who can do calculus in their head is miniscule, and it's not even clear how calculus applies to this problem. I assume you mean "calculations", but these calculations aren't simple.

Anyway, the problem with people who feel they've mastered their particular class in an MMO is that they tend to become blind to anything except raw performance. They lose objectivity about the merits of a particular playstyle.

With Bloodthirst and Raging Blow on cooldown, is it more valuable to use Furious Slash with the 4-piece set bonus, or to use a Wrecking Ball or Stone Heart proc?

I would be *shocked* if anybody can answer that question without (1) running SimCraft, or (2) relying on guides written by somebody else who ran SimCraft. If you think it's obvious, then that's just because you haven't thought about it enough. The interplay between Enrage (with its associated auto-attack speed increase), Rampage, and rage gain is not simple at all.

No, you don't *need* this information to play the class, as you can just refer to guides, and if you don't refer to the guides it probably won't make a very large difference in your damage output. But to me, the overall system of priorities should not be very difficult to parse, even if the overall rotation can be tricky.

As for the "helpful" observation that the break-even point of whether it's beneficial to use Execute is 8-10 stacks of Juggernaut, I really don't even understand how this seems like a good thing to anybody. There are a vast number of fights in the game where you have other things to do than tunnel the boss long enough to get huge numbers of Juggernaut stacks. There are considerably more fights where this is the case than cases where it's not. That's my entire point.

If the BT crit bonus were baked into BT rather than unnecessarily attached to Furious Slash like it is now, then Execute could just be a higher-damage replacement for Furious Slash. Then players wouldn't have to whip out the calculator to figure out if it's even worth using. That's just one example of an alternate implementation of Fury that's similar in playstyle without requiring running calculations on conflicting priorities.

[TehTemplar]

You are talking how fury is unintuitive, yet all your examples are clearly about squeezing the last few percent of dps you can, not about the basic gameplay:

Wrecking ball Vs Stoneheart proc, you just lay that out there as if its some profound to be or not to fucking be kind of question, whereas it's a simple - what kind of situation I'm in type of question - how many bosses there are, are there any adds, are adds coming and if so how long till they do and will your WB still be up, etc etc.

Fury is one of the easiest specs to play to a 80-90% of the class potential and just like any other class it takes some knowledge of class mechanics to be able to squeeze the last few percent of performance. And every single class require simulationcraft and research to do so.

Come on, show another class that is easier to play than fury but not braindead and requires 0 simcrafting to know how to play at high endgame.

[FFRB]

Anyway, the problem with people who feel they've mastered their particular class in an MMO is that they tend to become blind to anything except raw performance. They lose objectivity about the merits of a particular playstyle.

With Bloodthirst and Raging Blow on cooldown, is it more valuable to use Furious Slash with the 4-piece set bonus, or to use a Wrecking Ball or Stone Heart proc?

It's clear what you're talking about here is min-maxing and not intuitiveness. Every class with it's series of procs, gear, set bonuses and the difference in raid encounters is going to have questions like this. It's also never going to really matter. Unless you're under-geared pushing the bleeding edge of progression. In the scenario you discussed above the answer is: it doesn't matter. That doesn't make the spec less intuitive because you have potential decisions to make when using a filler ability. Maybe the Wrecking Ball proc is the smarter play because it's AoE, but maybe at the last second the off-tank drags some adds out of range and you don't hit enough targets and it's a damage loss. Are you going to call the spec un-intuitive now? No. It's just situational awareness.

[Krom2040]

Unless you're under-geared pushing the bleeding edge of progression. In the scenario you discussed above the answer is: it doesn't matter. That doesn't make the spec less intuitive because you have potential decisions to make when using a filler ability.

I acknowledged that it really doesn't matter that much. I consider that to be a problem rather than an advantage, however. It shouldn't just be about rolling your face over the keyboard really fast.

I think the lack of clear priorities does create a real problem when there are two or three targets. As I mentioned, because your rage gain suffers from lack of Raging Blow, and also because your Enrage uptime suffers from BT crit chance being negligible without having Furious Slash in the rotation, the AoE is anemic unless Battle Cry is up. That's a direct result of the contradicting priorities built into the spec.

[FFRB]

I acknowledged that it really doesn't matter that much. I consider that to be a problem rather than an advantage, however. It shouldn't just be about rolling your face over the keyboard really fast.

I think the lack of clear priorities does create a real problem when there are two or three targets. As I mentioned, because your rage gain suffers from lack of Raging Blow, and also because your Enrage uptime suffers from BT crit chance being negligible without having Furious Slash in the rotation, the AoE is anemic unless Battle Cry is up. That's a direct result of the contradicting priorities built into the spec.

We just disagree on this. What you see as a weakness I see as a strength. When it comes to min/maxing and squeezing that last few percentage points of DPS there should be a little ambiguity. This allows good players to perform at a level to complete mythic raids. However, the best of the best make the right decisions when the situation dictates and are rewarded by being at the top. You're speaking out against face-rolling on your keyboard as a negative but how is that different than having a rotation so rigid in it's use (i.e. never any ambiguity between a furious slash vs a WB proc or item proc) that it becomes completely muscle memory without any decision making.

[Entrophius]

Another set bonus change:
Item - Warrior T20 Fury 4P Bonus Raging Blow increases the damage and healing of your next Bloodthirst / Inner Rage by 50% / 20%, stacking up to 10 times

Do they want to push us out of Inner Rage so badly?
Edit: After comparing mmoc to wowhead I guess they might have it flipped?

[f3llyn]

Another set bonus change:
Item - Warrior T20 Fury 4P Bonus Raging Blow increases the damage and healing of your next Bloodthirst / Inner Rage by 50% / 20%, stacking up to 10 times

Do they want to push us out of Inner Rage so badly?
Edit: After comparing mmoc to wowhead I guess they might have it flipped?

With the 2p and 4p both revolving around BT and RB it certainly looks like it.

[Krom2040]

We just disagree on this. What you see as a weakness I see as a strength. When it comes to min/maxing and squeezing that last few percentage points of DPS there should be a little ambiguity. This allows good players to perform at a level to complete mythic raids. However, the best of the best make the right decisions when the situation dictates and are rewarded by being at the top. You're speaking out against face-rolling on your keyboard as a negative but how is that different than having a rotation so rigid in it's use (i.e. never any ambiguity between a furious slash vs a WB proc or item proc) that it becomes completely muscle memory without any decision making.

I agree with the principle, but I just don't feel like it really plays out that way in reality. I don't think there's much that changes situationally in the rotation, aside from the fact that you do things slightly differently based on the number of targets that are there.

[Anbokr]

I'm curious, which legs do you guys use for m+?

I'm sure all of us know what's best for raids (helm/cloak, helm/prydaz), but m+ is pretty murky to me. Which combination of belt, cloak, and prydaz would you guys use? Tough choice, I feel like belt is a shoe-in, but can't decide between prydaz and cloak.

[PsyWulf]

I'm curious, which legs do you guys use for m+?

I'm sure all of us know what's best for raids (helm/cloak, helm/prydaz), but m+ is pretty murky to me. Which combination of belt, cloak, and prydaz would you guys use? Tough choice, I feel like belt is a shoe-in, but can't decide between prydaz and cloak.

Unless you're going for a meat-cleaver WW spec (and even then barely) the belt is useful,outside of that there are far better choices depending on the modifiers - like your prydaz and cloak for general uses

[Deleted]

Do they want to push us out of Inner Rage so badly?

Seems like that. I honestly liked the bonus before much better, it was basically a weaker angry hat.
Without IR the spec play stupid, id rather not take the set bonus at all than dropping it.

[Deleted]

I'm curious, which legs do you guys use for m+?

I'm sure all of us know what's best for raids (helm/cloak, helm/prydaz), but m+ is pretty murky to me. Which combination of belt, cloak, and prydaz would you guys use? Tough choice, I feel like belt is a shoe-in, but can't decide between prydaz and cloak.

I go with Prydasz and ring for the extra ST burst ring procs can bring. Prob would go with Prydasz + cloak for lower M+ tho if I know I'll never drop stacks

[Tulair]

I have a question about Gul'dan and juggernaut stacks. Is there any possible way of not loosing these stacks each time he fills the one side of the room with swirly purple? I can manage to maintain them when getting the fire debuff, but haven't been close to keeping them during this small transition period.

Do you even bother executing on this fight? And then there is the eye that spawns, which also just kills any possible stack maintenance.

I would love some input as I know Fury is supposed to be good on this fight. My assumption is that we can burst those 3 eyes in phase 2 easily.