Legion is the new Vanilla

[WhiteEagle888]

Vanilla players your cries have been heard!

"...member when warlocks could perform the doomguard ritual with four people and one of them died in the process?"
"Yeah I member! Those were the good old days when WoW was still an mmo!"

Ladies and Gentlemen
I present you: http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/147871-doom-stone (not limited to warlocks, all doomstones sold separately)

It's safe to come back now - we also have bacon http://www.wowdb.com/items/133681-crispy-bacon!!
I'm sure most vanilla elitists also agree that only the first 151 are real Pokémon too.

[Vargur]

I'm sure they'll nerf them immediately to not work in raids, the events where people actually do get together for a social activity and have some downtime to fool around.

[Pakmanisgod]

Them's risky words in these here parts.

*Slowly backs away from impending shitstorm*

[WhiteEagle888]

Them's risky words in these here parts.

*Slowly backs away from impending shitstorm*

I'm already hearing the battle music.

[Adoxe]

If we can't have Legacy we might aswell have the current content turn into it. Looking forward to the full transformation so that the game can be amazing again.

[Amerissis]

"Yeah I member!

You member? Isn't it 'I am a member'?

OT: Nice. I guess. What's it for?

[WhiteEagle888]

You member? Isn't it 'I am a member'?

Ignorant person not watching South Park detected.

[Temp name]

You member? Isn't it 'I am a member'?

OT: Nice. I guess. What's it for?

Technically it's "I 'member" with a silent "re" at the front

[Amerissis]

Ignorant person not watching South Park detected.

South Park Well, if you think that makes me ignorant, I am proud to be called that, because South Park is cringe worthy. But, stay edgy! You are so cool! People will want to touch you for using wrong sentences from a cartoon!

[Charge me Doctor]

Didn't know that vanilla is all about warlocks summoning doomguards. Then reducing their shadow resistance. Then controlling them. Then re-controlling them because it broke. Then losing them because their running speed was lower than mount speed.

[Ishayu]

If we can't have Legacy we might aswell have the current content turn into it. Looking forward to the full transformation so that the game can be amazing again.

I honestly prefer that. WoW is a game that forgot it was an MMORPG. It's time to remember what that means. Let us build our characters the way we want, don't be afraid that things go wacky, make classes more interesting, and tone down the action elements and the "YOU ARE INSTANTLY SUPER POWERFUL" stuff.

Since the story can't really escalate much beyond Legion, Blizzard are eventually going to have to bring things back to normality.

I think WoW vanilla deserves preservation, and private servers are a fine way to do that given the age of that game. However, I think that for a lot of people playing on vanilla servers wasn't about playing actual vanilla, it was because the game's genre had changed. They prefer the gameplay of the original, and doing the old content was actually a compromise for them, not the reason they did it. That latter group are the people who Blizzard should be concerned about.

[Sesshomaru]

Legion is by definition of an expansion not "Vanilla", as is a callback to the released game without any extreme conditions added later on, such as level cap increase.
Think about it, an expansion is a more widely version of newly crafted lore which furthers the game experience within said expansion. This time, it's about the Burning Legion and it's allies. Nonetheless, the norm of an expansion is a level cap increase, such as WoW and FFXIV (the two MMOs I've mainly played, there are others, though).

Onto the stone. Personally, I can't wait to go back doing the main thing which nicknamed me "The Doomsayer" back in TBC.
I can't wait to randomly sacrifice someone (and in 1/5 cases, myself) just for the glory of the Legion Demons I can command. Okey, mayhap not demons, just for the sake of shenanigans.

I don't think I've ever been so hyped for a fun item.

[Charge me Doctor]

I honestly prefer that. WoW is a game that forgot it was an MMORPG. It's time to remember what that means. Let us build our characters the way we want, don't be afraid that things go wacky, make classes more interesting, and tone down the action elements and the "YOU ARE INSTANTLY SUPER POWERFUL" stuff.

You do understand that it's playerbase that forced these changes? Aka, "m8 if u don't do 15% more DPS next pull you are going to be kicked", aka "3k GS+ arch vault", aka "910 ilvl+ HoV FAST RUN". Players forced other players to stop "building our character the way we want", is started in vanilla, continued through TBC and blizzard started doing shit to ease this bullshit in late wotlk, because most players meat "do a cookie cutter build instead of what you want or get kicked because you perform objectively worse this way".

[Ishayu]

You do understand that it's playerbase that forced these changes? Aka, "m8 if u don't do 15% more DPS next pull you are going to be kicked", aka "3k GS+ arch vault", aka "910 ilvl+ HoV FAST RUN". Players forced other players to stop "building our character the way we want", is started in vanilla, continued through TBC and blizzard started doing shit to ease this bullshit in late wotlk, because most players meat "do a cookie cutter build instead of what you want or get kicked because you perform objectively worse this way".

Blizzard confused the challenges players faced with how the game should be designed.

Just because some idiots decided to make a gearscore addon and use that to require people to join groups does not mean that Blizzard should implement that system, nor does it mean everyone had that problem. (I didn't, I had a guild!)

And yeah, there were cookie cutter builds. There are still cookie cutter builds. So long as there is impactful choice, there will be cookie cutter builds. It is inevitable and not necessarily a problem. Those who are really good can tell the situational usefulness of the others, and that's fine.

But let's apply some common sense logic here... in what way was the "bring gearscore 3k+ or no inv" issue solved by literally turning gearscore requirements into an attunement quest, nevermind what other players are asking for?

[WhiteEagle888]

South Park Well, if you think that makes me ignorant, I am proud to be called that, because South Park is cringe worthy. But, stay edgy! You are so cool! People will want to touch you for using wrong sentences from a cartoon!

This sentence made me cringe more than ever. Oh and at least I don't need to resort to touching myself like some of us here :P

- - - Updated - - -

You do understand that it's playerbase that forced these changes? Aka, "m8 if u don't do 15% more DPS next pull you are going to be kicked", aka "3k GS+ arch vault", aka "910 ilvl+ HoV FAST RUN". Players forced other players to stop "building our character the way we want", is started in vanilla, continued through TBC and blizzard started doing shit to ease this bullshit in late wotlk, because most players meat "do a cookie cutter build instead of what you want or get kicked because you perform objectively worse this way".

I agree that Blizzard ruined this aspect by listening to the no brain damage meter nerds. The game needs to be massively single-player with multiplayer aspects. Luckily we are moving towards that already. We don't need addons either - thats just 3rd party shit.

[Charge me Doctor]

But let's apply some common sense logic here... in what way was the "bring gearscore 3k+ or no inv" issue solved by literally turning gearscore requirements into an attunement quest, nevermind what other players are asking for?

I was addressing "play our characters the way we want and do wacky stuff" point, say, in wotlk a fire mage had two options - one for low level gear, other for high level gear. First "path" was using glyphed FFB over FB (this way it's literally same spell, has same damage and cast times) and getting +hit talents from frost tree. So... you can skip 1-3 gear piece with hit... or, if it's the case of having shit gear without crit - get you up to boss hitcap.
Now, i'm a decently geared fire mage and want to continue to use FFB because i like how it looks, it makes me happy playing like that. But i can't. Because i already have enough gear with hit and it simply puts me over cap so there am i, a mage sitting at 21% hit and i have to relocate these 3 talent points into something else, because the community (via armory / GS addon) forces me to drop these 3% into something else for trivial gains for my DPS.
See the problem? There, our imaginary mage-friend can't play his spec the way he wants because people are aware of hits 3% stats being allocated in "wrong way", so he has to turn down his fancy FFB spell.

[WhiteEagle888]

Didn't know that vanilla is all about warlocks summoning doomguards. Then reducing their shadow resistance. Then controlling them. Then re-controlling them because it broke. Then losing them because their running speed was lower than mount speed.

Who says they can't bring those back in some form either? :P

[Charge me Doctor]

I agree that Blizzard ruined this aspect by listening to the no brain damage meter nerds. The game needs to be massively single-player with multiplayer aspects. Luckily we are moving towards that already. We don't need addons either - thats just 3rd party shit.

I don't think that it's the case of "no brain damage meter nerds". Players doing PvE content want to... surprise, finish said PvE content, and to do so they need more output. I think players just want some of RP back into the game, which is not possible with "competitive" nature of current PvE content - it's too complex and hard to bring people in with their RP stuff. Remember 40 man paladin raids? Yeah, that's gone now, exactly because of that - because of game being more balanced and accessible than it used to be.
I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, it's just makes game bleed certain kind of players off, while getting other kind of players stick in there longer

[WhiteEagle888]

I don't think that it's the case of "no brain damage meter nerds". Players doing PvE content want to... surprise, finish said PvE content, and to do so they need more output. I think players just want some of RP back into the game, which is not possible with "competitive" nature of current PvE content - it's too complex and hard to bring people in with their RP stuff. Remember 40 man paladin raids? Yeah, that's gone now, exactly because of that - because of game being more balanced and accessible than it used to be.
I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, it's just makes game bleed certain kind of players off, while getting other kind of players stick in there longer

You contradict yourself if you think damage meters are a good thing and at the same time RP can be brought back into the game.
Addons need to go and raids need to be completable single-player with story NPCs.
Only then can you group up with idiots and compete for the world first if you want to.
This distinction must be made for the story to have meaning.

[KrazyK923]

As in its bad and a horrible time sink?

Sure is!