EU Lawmakers starting down a slippery slope

[Kalis]

You have full access to it, the record is public, is it not? This is just pulling the plug in TV live feeds and recordings. I don't see a big problem with that. You can still report about it, but it takes a bit of the vile out of the public debate and pulls out the rug under those populists who habitually abuse public proceedings as a stage for their personal agenda rather than work on actual politics.

5. The President may decide to interrupt the live broadcasting of the sitting in the case of defamatory, racist or xenophobic language or behaviour by a Member.

6. The President may decide to delete from the audiovisual record of the proceedings those parts of a speech by a Member that contain defamatory, racist or xenophobic language.

The EU should never get tio decide what is acceptable for the public to view. If an MEP calls for genocide, or whatever, then I want to hear them say it.

My ears do not need protecting from mean words, nor do yours. We should be able to see, hear and judge for ourselves. The whole idea that somebody gets to decide what is racist or xenophobic for us, is wrong.

[Vorkreist]

Debunked as fake news:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...pe-Issues-quot

Based on the data provided by the same government that tries to cover up their migrant crime?
Clearly all those weekly/monthly cases of some child raped by a migrant are fake news. All the cases from all europe especially the ton of cases from Germany since 2016 are fake news.
All the investigations proving the police are asked not to disclose information about migrant crime cases is fake news.

[Yriel]

Or are you confusing refugees with immigration?

What is the difference?

[ati87]

They are elected MEPs, so we absolutely do have to give them a platform.

No we bloody don't have too give them a platform.

If they're want to have a audience for their free speech then let them have a gathering or something. We or the eu in general doesn't have to give them any attention.

[Kalis]

No we bloody don't have too give them a platform.

If they're want to have a audience for their free speech then let them have a gathering or something. We or the eu in general doesn't have to give them any attention.

Once again...they are elected MEPs, so we absolutely do have to give them a platform.

You may not like Parliamentary democratic systems, but that is how they should work. What would be the point in voting for someone if they aren't allowed a voice? What would be the point in voting?

[Kalis]

No, we don't have to.
That is why they are able to make this rule.

You might disagree with that, but hey, that's just your opinion.

You're an authoritarian though, so you being okay with censorship of views you don't like is understandable. I am not an authoritarian, so I oppose censoring members of Parliament, as they are there to express views that we may not be able to, or that we may not find palatable.

Last time the likes of you came to power in Europe, you got a hiding, it won't turn out any better for you next time.

[XDurionX]

As long as they're not banning media from certain events.

[Ravenblade]

What is the difference?

There is a great deal of difference. Immigration as a whole is a process which under circumstances can be an intended process say for purposes of filling vacant job spots. Germany is no stranger to that as they had been attempting to gain more immigrant workers some years ago with mixed results. At the beginning of this millennium Germany tried to invite Indians in order to fill empty IT spots which led to the infamous "Computerinder" meme. The result was laughable at best though but their motion was laudable: Germany was kind of a backyard country when it came to IT at the turn of the millennium. There's also campaigns in the healthcare sector as its strapped for workers. People confuse immigrants with "filthy and unclean leeches and terrorist scum" too quickly and too often. In fact what's been talked about is controlled immigration of skilled workers which Germany needs due to overaged and barely reproducing population.

Just today they announced that unemployment dropped further but with the addition of increased underemployment rate as well. This should be a giveaway. A lot Germans seem to be blind for this and are afraid they are getting overrun by hordes of strangers of ghastly faiths. The other side of the medal is however that long before refugees entered Germany the government has been trying to attract skilled workers from abroad but Germany isn't too attractive as a whole for workers. There's regions where it's nice to work at but the ones where they would be really needed are too dangerous to go to. Say the East of my own state has statistically every fourth company closing down in the next 10 years due to lack of young people replacing the older ones. This is a peculiar issue unique to Germany only and one they can only resolve through controlled immigration programmes.

[Kalis]

No, you're worse.
You think it's enough that criminal ideologies should be fought with words instead of law.

How am I worse? Because I think freedom of speech in Parliament is not a bad thing? As compared to you, who wants to ban speech they don't like and advocates violence agianst people with differing political opinions?

Variations of people like you have caused the largest death tolls witnessed in the last century, they are a cancer on humanity. But you probably have some notion that your brand of authoritarianism is somehow not authoritarian and justifiable, but virtually all authoritarians think that.

Like every place the EP has some ground rules. If you don't follow those rules you get banned.
They've always had these rules and people didn't complain about it.

That censuring, not censoring.

[Nehezbegar]

Haha lately in Poland the webside of organisation against hate speach has fallen under the law of the hate speach and there is a case in progress

This is a double edge sword, ppl should be able to express their opinion no matter how it sounds. This is one of the values of freedom. But those totalitarians in EU commision etc., don't want people to be free. We also have examples how laws like that work in Germany which is ridiculous.

[Mayhem]

How am I worse? Because I think freedom of speech in Parliament is not a bad thing? As compared to you, who wants to ban speech they don't like and advocates violence agianst people with differing political opinions?

Variations of people like you have caused the largest death tolls witnessed in the last century, they are a cancer on humanity. But you probably have some notion that your brand of authoritarianism is somehow not authoritarian and justifiable, but virtually all authoritarians think that.

Isn´t this somewhat comparable to the public order act?

[Deleted]

I see no problem with someone who is genuinely shouting racist stuff at the EUP being told to shut up, and removed if necessary, but i think its wrong to cut the broadcast and delete the footage. Citizens should have the right to know what their elected MEPs are saying, without the EUP choosing what we should and should not hear.
I assume of course some debates and discussions in the parliament are kept private anyway, but ones that are being broadcast/recorded should be shown as they are, it shouldn't be for the president to decide what words we can and cannot listen to.

[ati87]

Once again...they are elected MEPs, so we absolutely do have to give them a platform.

You may not like Parliamentary democratic systems, but that is how they should work. What would be the point in voting for someone if they aren't allowed a voice? What would be the point in voting?

You're voting for a person to do a job in parlement, in other words to vote on laws, and not to watch them on tv.

if you want them given more attention start a youtube channel or something I mean look at this @sswipe, what's so constructieve about this crap? He goes on a troll rant and nothing more

So yes I want my taxes to be at least semi-constructive instead of being spend on trolls, I have a bit higher standard then the avg right-winger who's standard is so abnormally low that they vote and defend almost everything that Trump says and do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bypLwI5AQvY

[Mormolyce]

EU is starting to fall apart under the weight of migration

Europe has definitely never seen migration before.

It's not like there was a whole era of it that virtually created Europe or anything.

But please keep repeating these alt-right talking points, they never get old.

[Deleted]

You're voting for a person to do a job in parlement, in other words to vote on laws, and not to watch them on tv.

if you want them given more attention start a youtube channel or something I mean look at this @sswipe, what's so constructieve about this crap? He goes on a troll rant and nothing more

So yes I want my taxes to be at least semi-constructive instead of being spend on trolls, I have a bit higher standard then the avg right-winger who's standard is so abnormally low that they vote and defend almost everything that Trump says and do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bypLwI5AQvY

If i understand the article correctly, your MEP will still be shouting that racist stuff, and will be disciplined in the same way as before, only this time it wll be removed from footage so you won't know what your MEP said. Maybe i should read the article again, but thats the way i understood it.

[Kalis]

You're voting for a person to do a job in parlement, in other words to vote on laws, and not to watch them on tv.

if you want them given more attention start a youtube channel or something I mean look at this @sswipe, what's so constructieve about this crap? He goes on a troll rant and nothing more

Don't MEPs make statements or speeches then? If you don't want to hear them speak, then don't listen to them. Don't take away that ability from others, just because you don't want it.

So yes I want my taxes to be at least semi-constructive instead of being spend on trolls, I have a bit higher standard then the avg right-winger who's standard is so abnormally low that they vote and defend almost everything that Trump says and do.

I am pretty confident that the average right winger I know wouldn't support Trump's policies, nor even be eligible to vote for Trump. What the fuck has Trump got to do with anything anyway? Did I miss something?

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If i understand the article correctly, your MEP will still be shouting that racist stuff, and will be disciplined in the same way as before, only this time it wll be removed from footage so you won't know what your MEP said. Maybe i should read the article again, but thats the way i understood it.

That is pretty much it.

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Europe has definitely never seen migration before.

Modern Europe hasn't seen anything like this.

It's not like there was a whole era of it that virtually created Europe or anything.

Europe in its modern sense formed well after any mass migration waves from outside of Europe, so not sure where you are going with that. Most mass migrations haven't historically really been good in Europe, quite a lot of blood and gore, not pleasant.

Edit: There were a couple from Asia that I can think of and one from North Africa, but they followed the blood and gore scenario.

But please keep repeating these alt-right talking points, they never get old.

Why does everyone keep using buzzwords like 'alt-right'? If someone had said that a year ago, how would you have attempted to dimiss their opinion then?

[Deleted]

That is pretty much it.

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Then I stand by my original statement that this is stupid.

[Kalis]

Then I stand by my original statement that this is stupid.

If it was just stupid, then it wouldn't be so bad - stupidity in politics is perfectly normal, look at Farage, Sir Eric Pickles and the entire Labour Party front bench - but this is potentially damaging to Parliamentary democracy, as it can be used to censor 'unapproved' comments from members.

[Deleted]

If it was just stupid, then it wouldn't be so bad - stupidity in politics is perfectly normal, look at Farage, Sir Eric Pickles and the entire Labour Party front bench - but this is potentially damaging to Parliamentary democracy, as it can be used to censor 'unapproved' comments from members.

Stupid was a summary of my original post, where I stated why I think this is bad. Haven't read all of this thread, but it's probably for similar reasons as you.
I said that citizens should have the right to k ow elegant their elected mep said, even it was something racist.

[Adolecent]

We have a bigger problem with racism in the US but it's never been a problem in Congress or at other levels of government. I get the feeling that the EU is hyper sensitive about "Hate speech" and probably unnecessarily so.

I read these sort of reactions often comming from the North American continent. I guess for you it's hard to understand what scars are left after an occupation of a country and the horror inflicted on your ancestors and fellow countrymen. Those scars are deeper than you can imagine apparently.

The "alt-right" (as they're called now) occupied large parts of Europe and slaughterd millions in it's path. There was no justice anymore, people got shot and tortured randomly in the streets and in our houses, it happend right in front of you on a daily basis. We detest the alt-right (Nazi's) and we are on "high allert".

In our opinion we think the US is taking a huge risk giving unlimited "free speech" to a movement that will abuse it by manipulating public opinion to bolster its influence in a society by spreading lies and hate. Spreading lies and hate is already paying off, Trump is getting more populair among not only the alt-right but also under the republicans who were doubtfull at first. That is a slippery slope more troublesome. We think the US is naive and will lose control over this sooner than they realise.

Nothing good will ever come from lies and hate. Period.