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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Oberyn Martell View Post
    I'd argue the mere existence of the internet is also a good reason for that. Young people meet and become friends with people from all corners of the world nowadays. That alone leaves them a lot of room to question 'national borders'.
    The thing with internet interaction is that everyone makes themselves and their things look better than what they really are. Once reality kicks in you quickly learn why boarders are a thing.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    If you are European then stop using the word liberal, it's really confusing - also the communist/marxist parties are 100% against the EU.
    Do you know the definition of liberal? It fits me to a tee.

    It's the modern left that's bastardized the label.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrak View Post
    liberalism is a right wing idealogy.

  3. #183
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    The actual left wing parties in Europe are mostly AGAINST the EU, so now you got educated a bit, you are welcome.
    Ah, I go by the media personalities, internet posters, think pieces, Ted Talks ect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  4. #184
    The Undying Kalis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by urasim View Post
    Do you know the definition of liberal? It fits me to a tee.

    It's the modern left that's bastardized the label.
    They were going to call themselves the more apt 'Illiberals', but decided it was too long and people kept spelling it wrong.

  5. #185
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    Welcome to Britain, we won't check your entitlement to use our free-at-point-of-use healthcare, because we are fucking idiots and doing so would be racist. Oh yeah, we also won't check your entitlement to free education.

    Go on the Guardian and you will see people calling for open borders and moaning about how much stress the NHS/schools/housing is under in the same post, they live in a fantasy world.
    It is marvelous to see people believe in both a generous welfare state AND that every person on Planet Earth has a right to access it.
    Last edited by Theodarzna; 2017-03-01 at 05:19 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    Welcome to Britain, we won't check your entitlement to use our free-at-point-of-use healthcare, because we are fucking idiots and doing so would be racist. Oh yeah, we also won't check your entitlement to free education.

    Go on the Guardian and you will see people calling for open borders and moaning about how much stress the NHS/schools/housing is under in the same post, they live in a fantasy world.
    These people are delusional.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    It is marvelous to see people believe in both a generous welfare state AND they every person on Planet Earth has a right to access it.
    I don't understand that line of thinking. If you don't pay taxes you aren't entitled to the country's welfare policies.
    Remember kiddies, hope was the last evil in Pandora's box.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Oberyn Martell View Post
    Those are not bad principles to believe in though.

    The goal is making it possible.
    Currently that would require a European super-state and I don't see it happening in the next 400 years.
    Remember kiddies, hope was the last evil in Pandora's box.

  8. #188
    The Undying Kalis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    It is marvelous to see people believe in both a generous welfare state AND that every person on Planet Earth has a right to access it.
    You try pointing out the flaw in their cunning plan and they accuse you of being a fascist/racist/xenophobe/islamophobe/misogynist/alt-right/far right/hard right/Little Englander/Tory scum.

    At some point they are going to use 'realist' as an insult.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triks View Post
    These people are delusional.
    They make up the bulk of our main opposition party.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Triks View Post
    Currently that would require a European super-state and I don't see it happening in the next 400 years.
    Oh no, they don't just want it free for Europeans. You are thinking way too small scale.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    You try pointing out the flaw in their cunning plan and they accuse you of being a fascist/racist/xenophobe/islamophobe/misogynist/alt-right/far right/hard right/Little Englander/Tory scum.

    At some point they are going to use 'realist' as an insult.



    They make up the bulk of our main opposition party.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Oh no, they don't just want it free for Europeans. You are thinking way too small scale.
    1) Wasn't Tony Blair also a part of that party?

    2) The students I can understand. When I was 19 I was reading Das Kapital. When I was 20 I thought Atlas Shrugged was the realness. The adults that think this, however, are beyond me.
    Remember kiddies, hope was the last evil in Pandora's box.

  10. #190
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by urasim View Post
    Do you know the definition of liberal? It fits me to a tee.

    It's the modern left that's bastardized the label.
    The modern left is not liberal at all..
    Not even the classic liberal parties are seen as left wing here.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrak View Post
    The modern left is not liberal at all..
    Not even the classic liberal parties are seen as left wing here.
    The left was never "liberal". "Liberal" and "conservative" are references to how different parties read a constitution. Both are democratic and both are free-market capitalists. What people call "liberal" is actually a "progressive" and that hasn't much to do with the left, considering progressives wouldn't exist in a communist regime as feminism (one of the pillars of progressive ideology) is the political movement of upper-middle class women.
    Remember kiddies, hope was the last evil in Pandora's box.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    I'm 52 years old I'm not naive, I just believe people don't (want to) understand how this is going to work.
    but that is pretty much entirely how it's going to work. how long before it stops being "racism and hate speech" to "shutting out any viewpoint that doesn't support their personal worldview?" My vote goes to a few minutes after implementation at best.

  13. #193
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Oberyn Martell View Post
    Those are not bad principles to believe in though.

    The goal is making it possible.
    They are a grotesque contradiction that will be unstable and collapse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  14. #194
    The Undying Kalis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triks View Post
    1) Wasn't Tony Blair also a part of that party?
    He led it, he was the one who changed our immigration policy into the fuck up we have now. The problem is, although the Blairite (centre left) part of the Labour Party want open borders, so do the Corbynistas (far left) and both want a welfare state as well.

    Blairites tend to be more sensbile, but for a party that was created to help the working classes of Britain, they have somehow managed to not give a fuck about, and in some cases actively despise, the British working class.

    I am a Conservative (centre right and right), we are stereotyped to be the party that doesn't give a shit about the poor, and even we are starting to feel sorry for how Labour are treating them. Theresa May, the Conservative Prime Minister, has been given the job at the hardest time in living memory and she is laughing due to having no opposition whatsoever.

    To give an indication, there was recently a by-election where traditionally the opposition parties do well and the sitting government does badly, the Conservatives won it from Labour for the first time in 80 years - that should never happen. It was the worst by-election result for an opposition party in something like 130 years and in the middle of Brexit, which split the country.

    2) The students I can understand. When I was 19 I was reading Das Kapital. When I was 20 I thought Atlas Shrugged was the realness. The adults that think this, however, are beyond me.
    We don't discriminate in the UK, we have idiots of all age groups.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    What gets me are the ones who are pro-open borders and pro-national healthcare, without realising the former will destroy the latter. The mainstream left wing is progressives nowadays, socialism is dead.
    Aw lord, all those wise people.

    I'm a moderate conservative in Germany, and I'm pro-open borders and pro-national healthcare, as well. Proper healthcare ranks under "civilizatory achievement" for me, and it's perfectly possible to provide it to everybody. We already have that right now.

    Does that mean that I want millions and millions to immigrate? No, certainly not. And there are some minimum requirements that I consider necessary: Accepting the free democratic basic order, accepting the primacy of law over "religious" laws, and the willingness to learn the local language and to integrate. Within these confines, there's no reason not to provide universal healthcare _and_ open borders.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by snackfeat View Post
    Sure, there's nothing wrong with immigration, but mass immigration is a bad thing. Just look at Sweden.
    "Mass immigration"? USA has done just fine, in fact, the success of USA is because of immigration.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    He led it, he was the one who changed our immigration policy into the fuck up we have now. The problem is, although the Blairite (centre left) part of the Labour Party want open borders, so do the Corbynistas (far left) and both want a welfare state as well.

    Blairites tend to be more sensbile, but for a party that was created to help the working classes of Britain, they have somehow managed to not give a fuck about, and in some cases actively despise, the British working class.

    I am a Conservative (centre right and right), we are stereotyped to be the party that doesn't give a shit about the poor, and even we are starting to feel sorry for how Labour are treating them. Theresa May, the Conservative Prime Minister, has been given the job at the hardest time in living memory and she is laughing due to having no opposition whatsoever.

    To give an indication, there was recently a by-election where traditionally the opposition parties do well and the sitting government does badly, the Conservatives won it from Labour for the first time in 80 years - that should never happen. It was the worst by-election result for an opposition party in something like 130 years and in the middle of Brexit, which split the country.



    We don't discriminate in the UK, we have idiots of all age groups.
    From what I have read about Corbyn, nobody except the idealistic youth would vote for such a man. The left as a whole has been a failure for the past give-or-take 20 years in the sense that it purposefully alienated its core electorate to get membership fees and subsidies from middle and upper-middle class voters. Essentially where the money is at.

    I can't comment on your immigration policy. Freedom of movement is a core EU freedom and countries have to adapt to it. Having a welfare state that entitles people who do not pay taxes into it IS NOT a way to go forward.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Moratori View Post
    "Mass immigration"? USA has done just fine, in fact, the success of USA is because of immigration.
    The USA was never a welfare state though.
    Remember kiddies, hope was the last evil in Pandora's box.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Triks View Post
    The USA was never a welfare state though.
    There's nothing about being a welfare state that makes immigration inherently bad.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Moratori View Post
    There's nothing about being a welfare state that makes immigration inherently bad.
    Depends on how it is implemented. Immigrants are entitled to social benefits as long as they are tax-paying citizens.
    Remember kiddies, hope was the last evil in Pandora's box.

  20. #200
    The Insane Aeula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    Is that why your representatives are pushing for this change, because it won't affect you?
    Wasn't he some labour MP? Labour is in a really shite state at the minute, I doubt they had our best interests in mind.

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