[Hearthstone] Journey to Un'goro confirmed as next expansion

[Faltemer]

The idea of replacing anti aggro cards with value / midrange cards simply goes both ways.

I think Midrange Decks can beat Slow Jade, getting overpowered during the midgame is a great weakness for these decks, but if it really goes Control vs. Jade, the Control deck needs a win condition that does not involve trying to outvalue your opponent.

I think right now though Reno decks are running far more anti aggro cards then Jade decks. I think it is very possible that if you were to tune a renolock deck as well as you could vs jade, and you did the same with jade for Renolock the jade deck might come out on top. But I dont think it is a given. There are a lot of great cards out there not seeing much use because Reno decks have like 10 or more slots dedicated to anti aggro tools. Even for this meta if you could safely run Rag, Cairne, Sylvannas, and maybe one more big late game card that might be enough to just destroy the jade decks in their current form. The problem is you can run one maybe two before you are just giving up huge chunks of of %s against the most common deck, aggro.

This new card is not a substitute for Reno Jackson because completing the quest will be nearly impossible in a singleton deck. Even if it turns out to be good (it won't) it will not support the Raza/Kazakus singleton archetype in any way.

Being able to kill you by turn 5 is the base level of viability for an aggro deck. You can be absolutely 100% sure decks will be capable of this.

I think turn 5 kills before MSOG was fairly rare, requiring basically crazy nut draws and your opponent playing nothing. With pirates you could have your opponent kill several things, not draw perfectly and still possibly like reaper them on 5 for the kill. Looking back on old face hunter (Not the undertaker version), going first with the absolute nut draw unless your opponent clears zero minions and heals none of the damage you wouldn’t kill them by 5. Not saying much since you be overkilled on 6, but this is quickest meta I think there has ever been.

I looked into trying to build a deathrattle priest singelton, and as of now you are pretty much right. There are only 7 viable DR cards unless you put in techy stuff or things like harvest golem. But if they add 1-2 priest deathrattles, which is likely considering the quest and 1-2 decent neutral cards then the deck wouldn’t be out of question.

[Nikkaszal]

- Source

IGN directly asks him whether there will be new highlander cards in the next set and he sarcastically says they haven't even started developing it, but it's quite clear that not only are they not printing new highlander cards but that they are aware the deck is going to die and don't care. He also casually mentions that Dragon is going to be orphaned too.

Thanks, hadn't seen that interview. Insightful.

[Kralljin]

I think right now though Reno decks are running far more anti aggro cards then Jade decks. I think it is very possible that if you were to tune a renolock deck as well as you could vs jade, and you did the same with jade for Renolock the jade deck might come out on top. But I dont think it is a given. There are a lot of great cards out there not seeing much use because Reno decks have like 10 or more slots dedicated to anti aggro tools. Even for this meta if you could safely run Rag, Cairne, Sylvannas, and maybe one more big late game card that might be enough to just destroy the jade decks in their current form. The problem is you can run one maybe two before you are just giving up huge chunks of of %s against the most common deck, aggro.

I really don't think you should be going for lategame cards if you want to counter Jade.

Unless you can use them back to back while Jade is still putting out 3/3 and 4/4, you're not going to make it.

Jade don't need to throw in Big minions, just put in your Jade Cards and other value cards like Ancestral Spirit, Brewmaster, Shadowstep, and so forth.

Then simply battle Late Minion with big Jade and it's rather certain that the Jade will come out ahead if you're not playing into massive board clears.

[Faltemer]

I really don't think you should be going for lategame cards if you want to counter Jade.

Unless you can use them back to back while Jade is still putting out 3/3 and 4/4, you're not going to make it.

Jade don't need to throw in Big minions, just put in your Jade Cards and other value cards like Ancestral Spirit, Brewmaster, Shadowstep, and so forth.

Then simply battle Late Minion with big Jade and it's rather certain that the Jade will come out ahead if you're not playing into massive board clears.

What is your jade at by turn 10-12 though? Usually these decks are getting huge jade cards on turns 15+. Even druid who arguably has the easiest path to a big jade, and a very good draw, would only have at most a 5/5 jade around ten. And againt hat requires you to get quite a lot of your jade cards early and in the right order. Whereas if you are a reno control deck, you likely play some mid rangey cards, and even if those are dealt with if you can play 2-3 big threats from turns 5-9 you will have a big board that jade decks tend to struggle with.

Im not really suggesting these decks will outvalue them in the long run, but if you can throw down enough big threats before they are getting 5+ consistent jades out I think you have a very good shot.

[DesoPL]

Get rid of adventures in favor to add more pay 2 win expansions.

Im done with HS, wish i could remove it from my library in BN but is... *Free 2 play* BIG MEH.

[Nikkaszal]

Get rid of adventures in favor to add more pay 2 win expansions.

Im done with HS, wish i could remove it from my library in BN but is... *Free 2 play* BIG MEH.

You spend a lot of effort posting in multiple threads about how you're "done" with HS

[Mahourai]

Expansions are no more "pay 2 win" than adventures were. Adventures are a better average value, sure. But more cards had to enter the cardpool than were currently coming into Standard and there is no way to do that except to sell them to people. I'll have 3000g by the time the expansion launches, or more, and will never spend a dollar on it, yet I will be able to play most any deck I feel like - some of them day one.

[Nikkaszal]

Expansions are no more "pay 2 win" than adventures were. Adventures are a better average value, sure. But more cards had to enter the cardpool than were currently coming into Standard and there is no way to do that except to sell them to people. I'll have 3000g by the time the expansion launches, or more, and will never spend a dollar on it, yet I will be able to play most any deck I feel like - some of them day one.

It's amazing that even years on, people still haven't twigged to the fact that you can SAVE gold prior to an expac launch

Dump 4k at launch - build a couple full decks of whatever you please. Takes only a short time to fill out the rest of the "fun" stuff then whaddaya know, you're back in position to save gold for the NEXT expac. Rinse and repeat.

[Pantalaimon]

It's amazing that even years on, people still haven't twigged to the fact that you can SAVE gold prior to an expac launch

Dump 4k at launch - build a couple full decks of whatever you please. Takes only a short time to fill out the rest of the "fun" stuff then whaddaya know, you're back in position to save gold for the NEXT expac. Rinse and repeat.

Yep, pretty simple in all honesty. From day one of MSoG til now I have saved 2/3 of all of the gold I've earned through quests as a f2p player, only spending every third 100g out of 300g on a pack. Have over 4k gold. Do this every time between the release of a new expansion/adventure & the release of the next one.

Going to be able to get a lot of packs for no real money spent (saving $49.99 ftw). If someone feels like they don't have packs for the Un'Goro when it releases then they aren't saving their gold correctly. If you are good at arena you can buy even more packs than this upon every release.

[Kralljin]

What is your jade at by turn 10-12 though? Usually these decks are getting huge jade cards on turns 15+. Even druid who arguably has the easiest path to a big jade, and a very good draw, would only have at most a 5/5 jade around ten. And againt hat requires you to get quite a lot of your jade cards early and in the right order.

Druid kinda depends on how you want to use Jade Idol, due that they can potentially grow Jade fast, but that requires insane draw.

I mean if you draw your first Idol and you use it to summon a Jade Golem, you won't be seeing any Jade idols until you draw your second one, so if you use your first rather early, that might take some time.

If you then want to grow Jade Golem quickly you need to draw multiple Jade Idol within the next few turns, sometimes people wait until they get Fandral, but he's a legendary.

I think the best class that grows Jade Golem quickly is Shaman, due Jade Claws and Jade Lightning, which also directly interact with the enemy board, thereby helping you not to lose the early / mid game, while remaining potentially insane for the late game.

Shaman has 6 Jade Cards that cost 4 or less Mana, keeping them in your mulligan is not a terrible choice in a control matchup.

Druid is just insane in terms of abusing the Jade mechanic if a lot of turns are just Hero power => Pass, but if they have to interact with the board, remove stuff, they might not recover from spending their entire turn 5 on drawing 3 cards.

Aside from that, as Shaman you can throw in White Eyes / N'zoth, as long as one Powerful Deathrattle died on the way to 10 Mana, it's enough value, as long as you got Jade Cards left in your deck.

I mean i started to run devolve on Shaman just counter those pesky high health boards, it's a potentially dangerous card, but will most certainly pay off if the enemy gets off some +Health Kazakus potion on a giant board or some super powerful legendaries like Rag are present.

[Twoddle]

It's amazing that even years on, people still haven't twigged to the fact that you can SAVE gold prior to an expac launch

Dump 4k at launch - build a couple full decks of whatever you please. Takes only a short time to fill out the rest of the "fun" stuff then whaddaya know, you're back in position to save gold for the NEXT expac. Rinse and repeat.

Even better is to save gold and not buy packs with it but spend it on arena, every penny of it, never buy packs from the shop again. I'm guessing that everyone in this forum is above average at Hearthstone and therefore you will get much better value in the long run accruing rewards in the arena, there's nothing to be scared of.

People get put off when they lose 0-3, 1-3 or 2-3 but you shouldn't be discouraged, even if you average 3 wins in arena you come out ahead because of your spread of wins. Once in a while you will get 5, 6, 7 or more wins and the rewards from those completely cancel out all your shitty runs and more. I'm not that good and I've also had my share of 12 win runs which alone are worth 3+ packs in profit each.

Over the quarter until the next expansion and depending on luck and skill you will get at least 50% extra value from your gold in arena compared to the shop and you only have to be slightly above average. The only deciding factor going this route is that you get cards at slower pace and it will take a month or two to earn a decent number of packs for constructed.

[Golden Yak]

Such cool creatures and concepts in this setting! I love how Blizzard is taking bits and pieces of WoW and revamping/expanding on them to create these awesome, expansive regions. Hearthstone Un'Goro is now a hundred times cooler lorewise than the Warcraft version, and that was already pretty great. I hope some of these lore concepts drift over into WoW.

[Explicit Teemo Nudes]

I currently have 12k gold, I and suck at this game. I pretty much never buy packs with my gold though, just adventures and arena runs.
But then again I don't net deck and play FOTM decks, and rarely craft cards I would need for a certain deck - I just save up dust to craft golden legendaries or golden adventure cards :P

[Kathranis]

it's quite clear that not only are they not printing new highlander cards but that they are aware the deck is going to die and don't care

I think it's a bit too soon to say that the archetype is going to die out. Solia, Rasa, and Kazakus will all still be around; they're not bad cards by any means, and with the 2015 sets cycling out there will be more room in Highlander decks to fit them in.

Reno Jackson was only vital in terms of being a card that let control decks stabilize against aggro decks. So long as there are viable highlander cards and a means for control decks to stabilize, the archetype should remain viable as well. You only need one good highlander card to make it worth running a highlander deck.

The Priest Quest card, for example, is pretty clearly designed as a Reno replacement for that class, and is potentially even more viable since you don't have to rely on RNG as much to activate the effect. I suspect that the Warlock and Mage Quests will likely also offer a similar degree of utility for control decks.

Now, obviously, this does rely on Blizzard giving control decks enough utility to survive the early game and complete their Quests, and they don't have the greatest track record with pushing the control archetype.

The point is, Reno doesn't make or break highlander decks. He makes or breaks control decks.

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Such cool creatures and concepts in this setting! I love how Blizzard is taking bits and pieces of WoW and revamping/expanding on them to create these awesome, expansive regions. Hearthstone Un'Goro is now a hundred times cooler lorewise than the Warcraft version, and that was already pretty great. I hope some of these lore concepts drift over into WoW.

I desperately want the "present day" Hearthstone version of Gadgetzan in WoW, as a huge, multi-level, Suramar-style city.

It would make a great capital, and the three cartels could totally act as a more streamlined version of Legion's Class Halls. Throw the Monks in with the Jade Lotus, Death Knights in with Grimestreet, and Demon Hunters in with the Kabal.

It's super unlikely, unfortunately, and that really bums me out. If we get a South Seas expansion, I'd even just take the cartels expanding their reach to the new zones.

[Deleted]

Looks atrocious. The two new mechanics are terrible. Adapt is basically a version of discover. A mechanic built around RNG. And quests are Renos/Kazakus/patches tier in the way they impact your deckbuilding. Either they won't be played or the decks running them will be strong enough and the cards will become very opressive. I mean, the priest one is literally a much better Reno. It's like they haven't learned anything at all. No wonder Lifecoach quit right after he visited Blizzard. It feels like we are still in that phase were standard and Wotog were supposed to completely change HS. Also the theme and the art is lame. It feels like the last ''Warcrafty'' expansion was Blackrock mountain. I feel like the people working on HS atm are massive Disney fanboys.

Anyway, looks terrible so far. I have still a bit of gold/dust so I will try out this expansion for sure. But if this expansion turns out terrible it might just be the last one for me.

[Promethieus]

Un'goro for an expansion? That doesn't make sense. There isn't really anything of substance in Un'goro. You have those drone bee things that live underneath Un'goro and Silithus but that's about it. Are they going to draw out a story line we've never heard before?
•Vanilla was Naxx and Kel'thuzad.
•TBC was Kil'jaeden.
•WotLK was the Lich King.
•Cataclysm was Deathwing.
•Mists of Pandaria was (really surprisingly, that Orc horde leader guy).
•WoD was Archimonde. Legion is going to be Kil'jaeden again.
What do we know about Un'goro? Absolutely nothing.
And and April release? What? Patch 7.2 is going to come out soon. We don't even have a beta.

[Kathranis]

Un'goro for an expansion? That doesn't make sense. There isn't really anything of substance in Un'goro.

You have silithid, dinosaurs, elementals, Titan relics. It's basically primordial Azeroth, a petri dish created by the Titans to foster and experiment with new lifeforms. Plus the Explorer's League.

That's more than enough to build a 135-card

It was at this point that I came to the sudden realization that Promethieus didn't know he was replying to a thread in the Hearthstone subforum.

[Jester Joe]

You have silithid, dinosaurs, elementals, Titan relics. It's basically primordial Azeroth, a petri dish created by the Titans to foster and experiment with new lifeforms. Plus the Explorer's League.

That's more than enough to build a 135-card

It was at this point that I came to the sudden realization that Promethieus didn't know he was replying to a thread in the Hearthstone subforum.

I thought the little icons would be enough for the front page now, but just in case I edited the thread title for further clarifications.

[Sarkol]

Un'goro for an expansion? That doesn't make sense. There isn't really anything of substance in Un'goro. You have those drone bee things that live underneath Un'goro and Silithus but that's about it. Are they going to draw out a story line we've never heard before?
•Vanilla was Naxx and Kel'thuzad.
•TBC was Kil'jaeden.
•WotLK was the Lich King.
•Cataclysm was Deathwing.
•Mists of Pandaria was (really surprisingly, that Orc horde leader guy).
•WoD was Archimonde. Legion is going to be Kil'jaeden again.
What do we know about Un'goro? Absolutely nothing.
And and April release? What? Patch 7.2 is going to come out soon. We don't even have a beta.

What? It's Hearthstone, and the story is just about exploring Un'Goro, and finding los of wacky and exotic things.

There are dinosaurs, Titan buildings and constructs, a Volcano, elementals, silithid, lots of out of game reference characters, and many different plant creatures. Also some cool NPC's there. There more than enough to build on, and it will have it's own HS twist any way.

[shammypie]

i hope will not get pigeonholed into certain archetype.

I mean, if you want to play another type of priest than the deathrattle priest, you are stuck with a card completely useless (the quest). that card appears in your starting hand, i heard, so you have it at everygame. You can mulligan it away, but it will scew one of your draw.

Unless there is something i don't understand about the mechanic. Maybe it's a real card that automatically get in your starting hand. In which case you can craft a deck without it.

actually having this in the starting hand makes it pretty easy to keep going. Drop into loot hoarder, harvest golem, shade, even a thalnos and you could have this card by turn 7 without depleting your hand all too much. throw in some onyxs, nzoth, maybe a potion of healing with some removal and you got a decent dek to build around the card. I mean the whole point of using a quest card to build around it. Every expansion they have been pushing new archetypes and have been limiting what you can do within them. Jade golem decks for instance are extremely op against anyone not playing aggro hence why very few cards can summon them (otherwise you would fill you deck with them)

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It's amazing that even years on, people still haven't twigged to the fact that you can SAVE gold prior to an expac launch

Dump 4k at launch - build a couple full decks of whatever you please. Takes only a short time to fill out the rest of the "fun" stuff then whaddaya know, you're back in position to save gold for the NEXT expac. Rinse and repeat.

or you know get a job, even a second job or maybe a temporary job. Work 2 full days, collect check, ding you now have enough for the new expansion. People ask me how i can drop 200 bucks everytime a new expansion come sout and I just tell them I pick up a couple overtime days.

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Shifting Shade comes from Old Gods, not LoE.

The point remains though that the set is gonna have to have quite a few new on-curve deathrattles to support the legendary spell. It will probably end up just like Dragon Priest or Reno Priest where people toy around with the new archetype then discard it because it's mediocre.

lol i still play those decks. I always tune them to beat aggro decks. You get RNGed every once in a while still but you have a >50% win chance. The problem is blizzard has been sold on the cthun idea. Every new expansion has brought deck archetypes into tighter and tighter focus. If I see a druid I'm pretty sure it's jade with a few small exceptions of beasts. You can win a game sometimes just by having odd cards to throw opponents off.